VASL6.6.0-beta1 is released

[Stewart]

Note:
Don't update until you NEED to.
You can have different versions of everything the to a different VASSAL shortcut.

If you run 6.5.0 you can most likely run everything with the first 2 designations
I.e. 6.5.xxxxxx

Have other versions available if needed.
Not much changes... Sorta like errata that you don't include in your RB..

 

[von Marwitz]

Doug can you guys slow down the constant revisions and settle on a stable version for a while. I understand the new vassal stuff but it is getting confusing on what version we can all use. You have 6.5.0 then 6.5.1 then 6.6.0 beta each one works in some versions others don't. Please create a version and make sure it works along with what ever version the new vassal comes out with.. VASSAL is now in version 3.4.1. Please note there is no disrepecting your hard work , it is just hard to swallow when your saved games may work in one version but not the next.

I think that in the past few years VASSAL and VASL have been pretty 'stable' with regard to versions.

But eventually VASSAL needed a new version because of issues resulting from obsolete JAVA versions it required and to harmonize with new hardware technology.

This in turn triggers the need for VASL adaptations, so I find it quite natural to see a 'final' VASL version (v6.5.1) for the 'old' VASSAL version (v3.2.17) as well as a new VASL version (v6.6) for the 'new' VASSAL version (v3.4.1). As always after 'big shifts' going out into the wild, some initial bugs are revealed by 'the masses' and need to be addressed.

That said, I am pretty confident that the 'big shift' for VASSAL (to v3.3) has been dealt with by the current v3.4.1 and things will now settle VASSAL-wise.

With regard to VASL, I presage that it might take two minor updates after the release of v6.6 and then the dust will settle again.

von Marwitz

 

[DougRim]

Doug can you guys slow down the constant revisions and settle on a stable version for a while. I understand the new vassal stuff but it is getting confusing on what version we can all use. You have 6.5.0 then 6.5.1 then 6.6.0 beta each one works in some versions others don't. Please create a version and make sure it works along with what ever version the new vassal comes out with.. VASSAL is now in version 3.4.1. Please note there is no disrepecting your hard work , it is just hard to swallow when your saved games may work in one version but not the next.

That said, I am pretty confident that the 'big shift' for VASSAL (to v3.3) has been dealt with by the current v3.4.1 and things will now settle VASSAL-wise.

These are good questions and comments which I have also been thinking about and trying to come up with a sensible approach.

VASSAL went more than three years between releases which gave us a remarkable period of stability in which to build a release new VASL modules.

In regards to von Marwitz's comment, I must say that VASSAL have told me to expect many new versions: "We're preparing 3.4.2 now. We're also preparing 3.5.0 now. We're expecting to have a release every few weeks for the foreseeable future, so if you're waiting for an extended period where there are no releases, we don't have one planned."

Not every new VASSAL release will require a rebuild of the VASL module. For example, VASL built with VASSAL 3.4.0 should run under VASSAL3.4.1. We will have to test this version-by-version as new VASSAL releases are issued.

We had a been on a twice-a-year cycle with VASL, spring and Fall updates. We skipped Fall 2019 and released 6.50 this spring as it was a larger update than normal. That was followed quickly by 6.5.1 which quick-fixed some bugs and then 6.6.0-beta to get us onto the new VASSAL platform.

So, what's a boy to do?

1. I would prefer to return to the spring/fall release cycle, starting with the Official release of VASL6.6.0 this fall. I have it built using VASSAL 3.4.0 and could release it tomorrow. It would have the same functionality as VASL6.51. I have about a half-dozen minor bug fixes and enhancements that I would like to add beforehand which would delay a release until later fall. I don't really like the idea of issuing a version that doesn't include at least some improvements. OTOH there is a fair bit of confusion out there about VASL/VASSAL versions and an early release of VASL6.6.0 might clarify that.

Any preferences?

2. Any future development that I do will be based on VASSAL 3.4.x or higher. VASL6.5.1 was the last version for VASSAL3.2.17. Other people are free to do as they wish but I see nothing but trouble in trying to maintain two parallel versions of VASL. Of course VASL6.51 will continue to work and, as has been pointed out, it is possible to have multiple VASSAL/VASL configurations on a device.

3. I will not release a VASL version whenever a new VASSAL version comes out (3.4, 3.5, 3.6, etc). New VASL versions will be driven by new functionality/bug fixes in VASL and will be built with whatever is the current VASSAL version at time of release.

This may seem self-evident but may cause issues for those who play other games (who knew!) on VASSAL. I see increasing comments by such folks who may have to juggle different versions of VASSAL to play different games. Not ideal.

I welcome other ideas and suggestions.

 

[von Marwitz]

So, what's a boy to do?

Shut up and play? ?

1. I would prefer to return to the spring/fall release cycle, starting with the Official release of VASL6.6.0 this fall. I have it built using VASSAL 3.4.0 and could release it tomorrow. It would have the same functionality as VASL6.51. I have about a half-dozen minor bug fixes and enhancements that I would like to add beforehand which would delay a release until later fall. I don't really like the idea of issuing a version that doesn't include at least some improvements. OTOH there is a fair bit of confusion out there about VASL/VASSAL versions and an early release of VASL6.6.0 might clarify that.

Any preferences?

I welcome other ideas and suggestions.

I think that the spring/fall release cycle is a good idea. You are used to it and feel comfortable with it, so are the players.

I didn't expect that VASSAL development is about to become more dynamic but I would be the last to complain. As long as there are no 'major' version shifts (like from VASSAL v3.2x to v3.3.x), then it is not really necessary to update VASSAL every time.

My habit was to wait a month or two after a new VASL version is released before I installed it (so I might get the 6.x.1 and skip the 6.x in case of quick bug fixes without an extra update). That meant roughly 2x VASL update per year. On that occasion, I also updated VASSAL if a new version was released. This worked quite well: Practically 2 updates a year for VASSAL and VASL while handling both at the same time. This is the path I'll follow in the future as well.

von Marwitz

 

[uckelman]

VASSAL 3.3 was short-lived precisely because 3.3.2 broke something that was needed by VASL 6.6.0-beta1, and since there'd been no VASL release yet and we had quite a pile of other changes waiting, we went to 3.4 instead of releasing 3.3.3. Had VASL 6.6.0 been out already, we would have released 3.3.3 with bug fixes only.

Whenever we add new features which produce new buildFile items, however, we have to increment the minor version number to prevent older versions of VASSAL from attempting (and failing) to load modules which could contain those things. Modules are generally speaking forward-compatible, but not backward-compatible.

When we do sometimes break forward compatibility, it's either an accident, which we'll correct once we become aware of it, or an intentional change, which we'll announce. None of this is new, though it may have been forgotten because 3.2 was a very long-lived minor version. (3.2.0 was released in December 2012.)

Were you to release VASL 6.6 compiled against VASSAL 3.4.1, on the basis of what I know now it would also work against VASSAL 3.5.

 

[stuh42asl]

These are good questions and comments which I have also been thinking about and trying to come up with a sensible approach.

VASSAL went more than three years between releases which gave us a remarkable period of stability in which to build a release new VASL modules.

In regards to von Marwitz's comment, I must say that VASSAL have told me to expect many new versions: "We're preparing 3.4.2 now. We're also preparing 3.5.0 now. We're expecting to have a release every few weeks for the foreseeable future, so if you're waiting for an extended period where there are no releases, we don't have one planned."

Not every new VASSAL release will require a rebuild of the VASL module. For example, VASL built with VASSAL 3.4.0 should run under VASSAL3.4.1. We will have to test this version-by-version as new VASSAL releases are issued.

We had a been on a twice-a-year cycle with VASL, spring and Fall updates. We skipped Fall 2019 and released 6.50 this spring as it was a larger update than normal. That was followed quickly by 6.5.1 which quick-fixed some bugs and then 6.6.0-beta to get us onto the new VASSAL platform.

So, what's a boy to do?

1. I would prefer to return to the spring/fall release cycle, starting with the Official release of VASL6.6.0 this fall. I have it built using VASSAL 3.4.0 and could release it tomorrow. It would have the same functionality as VASL6.51. I have about a half-dozen minor bug fixes and enhancements that I would like to add beforehand which would delay a release until later fall. I don't really like the idea of issuing a version that doesn't include at least some improvements. OTOH there is a fair bit of confusion out there about VASL/VASSAL versions and an early release of VASL6.6.0 might clarify that.

Any preferences?

2. Any future development that I do will be based on VASSAL 3.4.x or higher. VASL6.5.1 was the last version for VASSAL3.2.17. Other people are free to do as they wish but I see nothing but trouble in trying to maintain two parallel versions of VASL. Of course VASL6.51 will continue to work and, as has been pointed out, it is possible to have multiple VASSAL/VASL configurations on a device.

3. I will not release a VASL version whenever a new VASSAL version comes out (3.4, 3.5, 3.6, etc). New VASL versions will be driven by new functionality/bug fixes in VASL and will be built with whatever is the current VASSAL version at time of release.

This may seem self-evident but may cause issues for those who play other games (who knew!) on VASSAL. I see increasing comments by such folks who may have to juggle different versions of VASSAL to play different games. Not ideal.

I welcome other ideas and suggestions.

I would say to settle on 6.6.0 so we can safely switch over. I keep losing saved games due to one problem. Swtching 6.5.0 to 6.5.1 causes every saved game I have to be ruined. On each saved game, every stack of counters with real units but were covered by a concealment counter became a solid stack of concealment counters. I have lost about 6 months of scenario play. Even a game I had saved on a memory stick opened up with the same problem.I now have a 6 foot table set up for RO CG 2 because my online one was messed up. If they are going to continuously change VASSAL that is a real headache. My computer cannot run two versions of VASSAL and VASL, all it does is to cause VASL versions to disappear, or saved games to not work. Try to either keep VASL operational with 6.5.1 or change to 6.6.0. Two incompatible versions of VASL is really problematic. I am currently running 6.6.0 BETA and VASSAL 3.3.2. Also as a warning 3.4.1. does not run VASL 6.6.0 I get the incompatibility warning, same as 3.4.0. I would stay with the complete 6.6.0 and 3.3.2 until all the vassal changes are done.

 

[stuh42asl]

VASSAL 3.3 was short-lived precisely because 3.3.2 broke something that was needed by VASL 6.6.0-beta1, and since there'd been no VASL release yet and we had quite a pile of other changes waiting, we went to 3.4 instead of releasing 3.3.3. Had VASL 6.6.0 been out already, we would have released 3.3.3 with bug fixes only.

Whenever we add new features which produce new buildFile items, however, we have to increment the minor version number to prevent older versions of VASSAL from attempting (and failing) to load modules which could contain those things. Modules are generally speaking forward-compatible, but not backward-compatible.

When we do sometimes break forward compatibility, it's either an accident, which we'll correct once we become aware of it, or an intentional change, which we'll announce. None of this is new, though it may have been forgotten because 3.2 was a very long-lived minor version. (3.2.0 was released in December 2012.)

Were you to release VASL 6.6 compiled against VASSAL 3.4.1, on the basis of what I know now it would also work against VASSAL 3.5.

I have a suggestion for you and Doug ,just settle on one version that will be compatible for both and then Doug can fix the bugs. I am using 6.6.0 beta 1 and 3.3.2 with no problems.

 

[DougRim]

. . . I keep losing saved games due to one problem. Swtching 6.5.0 to 6.5.1 causes every saved game I have to be ruined. On each saved game, every stack of counters with real units but were covered by a concealment counter became a solid stack of concealment counters.

I accept that this has been your experience but it points to a particular problem that you are experiencing and is not a problem with 6.5.0/6.5.1 generally. I have moved any number of games from 6.5.0 to 6.5.1 without problem and I have not heard of other people with a similar experience. Any chance you changed a password along they way? That is usually what causes the inability to see under a stack. I am happy to try and work with you to solve this problem. If you want to send me a couple of 6.5.0 files I will test them in 6.5.1 and see if the same thing happens.

 

[Michael R]

On each saved game, every stack of counters with real units but were covered by a concealment counter became a solid stack of concealment counters.

I run multiple versions without issue. Your problem sounds like not using the same password in all versions.

 

[von Marwitz]

I would say to settle on 6.6.0 so we can safely switch over. I keep losing saved games due to one problem. Swtching 6.5.0 to 6.5.1 causes every saved game I have to be ruined. On each saved game, every stack of counters with real units but were covered by a concealment counter became a solid stack of concealment counters. I have lost about 6 months of scenario play.

? OMG!

I was not aware that this might happen by switching from v6.5.0 to v6.5.1.

Offhand, this sounds to me like the Password of the old and new user not matching. Should that be the case, then there would be a fix as you can find the VASL password for your user somewhere (directions for this in this forum somewhere).

To the crowd:
Is this a known issue? Has anyone else experienced this?

von Marwitz

 

[hongkongwargamer]

I just opened a

• 6.4.4 log file with VASL 6.5.1, no issues with concealed stacks
• 6.5.0 log file with VASL 6.5.1, no issues with concealed stacks

 

[von Marwitz]

I just opened a

• 6.4.4 log file with VASL 6.5.1, no issues with concealed stacks
• 6.5.0 log file with VASL 6.5.1, no issues with concealed stacks

Thanks, mate! So far I have not encountered any issues either.

von Marwitz

 

[stuh42asl]

Several times, I put two versions on the computer for VASSAL and VASL and the passwords were the same. Every time one or the other version would disappear, or VASSAL would disappear. I have an old version of Windows 10 so that is probably the problem.
It is no longer supported by Microsoft. So I have dumped the lot installed 6.6.0 beta 1 and 3.3.2. That is why you guys need to settle on one stable settup. It is frustrating deal with continuous changes.

 

[hongkongwargamer]

I don't think your issues are due to VASSAL/VASL changes.

As a matter of fact, I am straight-up thankful for all the amazing work the VASSAL/VASL folks keep bringing forth for the global community. THANKFUL.

You ROCK people. You really do!!

 

[DougRim]

Several times, I put two versions on the computer for VASSAL and VASL and the passwords were the same. Every time one or the other version would disappear, or VASSAL would disappear. I have an old version of Windows 10 so that is probably the problem.
It is no longer supported by Microsoft. So I have dumped the lot installed 6.6.0 beta 1 and 3.3.2. That is why you guys need to settle on one stable settup. It is frustrating deal with continuous changes.

You want stable, go with VASSAL3.2.17 and VASL6.5.1. Those two are never changing again.

But for the future, this is software. It will change . . . mainly because users keep asking for changes (bug fixes and enhancements) as they should.

The best we can do is try to deliver organized change (see my comments uppost).

Our game requires two pieces of software (VASSAL and VASL). The VASSAL guys are rockin' and rollin' and that makes it more demanding for VASL developers and users (and at times frustrating, I hear you). I must say that the VASSAL team has gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure that VASL can work with the latest versions of VASSAL and I am sure they will continue to do so. I really cannot say enough good things about them.

As to your particular "disappearing issues", I do agree with hongkongwargamer that it is probably not VASSAL/VASL that is causing the problem. We have no indications of that elsewhere.

 

[Stewart]

Vassal 3.4 doesnt like 6.6

 

[von Marwitz]

Vassal 3.4 doesnt like 6.6

It might help if you'd be more specific.

von Marwitz

 

[DougRim]

Vassal 3.4 doesnt like 6.6

Correcto-Mundo!

There is no vasl version that works with vassal3.4.

Vasl6.6.0-beta works with vassal3.3

 

[stuh42asl]

Correcto-Mundo!

There is no vasl version that works with vassal3.4.

Vasl6.6.0-beta works with vassal3.3

That is why I changed to those.

 

[uckelman]

We released VASSAL 3.4.2 just now. What's left for getting VASL 6.6.0 released?