ASLOK Thoughts in the Age of Covid

Plans for attending ASLOK XXXV?

  • Wasn't planning on attending anyway...

    Votes: 46 40.0%
  • Will be there, masks or not...

    Votes: 17 14.8%
  • Will be there, but only if masks are required...

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Will be there, but only if masks aren't required...

    Votes: 4 3.5%
  • Won't be attending due to Covid, but had been planning on it pre-pandemic...

    Votes: 20 17.4%
  • Might be there - depends on how the pandemic develops by the Fall...

    Votes: 20 17.4%
  • Might be there - depends on non-pandemic things like $, vacation, spousal approval, etc...

    Votes: 7 6.1%

  • Total voters
    115
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Tooz

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Have a good night everyone. Time to prepare for ASLOK...
 

MajorDomo

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People keep repeating this notion like it has a shred of validity. It does not. It would have validity if someone who became infected could not transmit the virus to others. But that is not the case. Consequently, it is not just a matter of Joe Bloe "accepting the risks" and going to ASLOK and getting COVID-19 and saying, "Oh, well, I knew the risks." It is now a matter of Joe Bloe going to ASLOK, getting COVID-19, then transmitting it to OTHER people who had no choice in the matter.

You have no right to engage in risky behavior that could infect and possibly kill other people just so that you can play a game. I am surprised that you cannot admit this to yourself.

And ASL tournament organizers have an ethical and civic responsibility to make sure that their own actions do not lead to a spread of the virus and increased illness and death.

It's that simple. The coronavirus is contagious and deadly. ASL is a game. Do the moral and ethical math for chrisssakes.
You have no authority to tell others that any legal behavior violates your sensibilities, frailties and judgement and therefore they should act as you dictate.

Stay home, sanitize. . , but please stop lecturing grown men on how you would have them behave.
 
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Bret Hildebran

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Is there a minimum physical attendance number that is needed to make the event financially viable? If the survey only indicates 20 or so people would definitely attend, is that enough to hold it? I would be disappointed if it didn't happen this year, but would support whatever decisions Bret and crew make.
I'm viewing this year's ASLOK as effectively a sunk cost. I will likely be on the hook for significant costs either way as a result. Low attendance might beat cancelling, but it is likely close to a push. Once we determine what we are doing I can go to the hotel and attempt to renegotiate based on future years potentially, but I have no idea how likely that is to work at this point.

I can understand the VASL appeal, but as I am not a VASL guy at all it is not something I would consider running as an alternative to the live event at this time...
 

phlegm027

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We are currently pondering what had previously been unfathomable, should we hold ASLOK this year? I had been delaying making a decision for as long as possible in order to collect more information and hope that perhaps by Oktober things might be getting back to something approaching "normal". "Normal" is seeming less and less likely for the near term which leaves a great quandary as to how best to proceed.

The hotel indicates they would be able to host our size gathering, at least under current restrictions, so that is not anticipated to be an issue unless OH reverses course on restrictions.

Wild Bill & I talked it over some last week. Bill was leaning slightly against while I was slightly pro which probably leaves our consensus at still a coin flip, although I admit my optimism has been waning over the course of the last few days.

At this point, my fundamental belief is if we are willing to host, then it is up to attendees to determine if they want to take the risk of attending. In a perfect world, I would like to come to a conclusion in June if possible, although if we stay on, we will always be at risk of cancellation if restrictions back slide in the fall unfortunately.

Thanks for any thoughts...
Leave Ohio. You’re all gonna get the WuHan gamer crud.
This is why you don’t go to states that begin and end with the same letter.
 

dlazov

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Just fyi, I just checked with the Ohio Board of Health and they told me that, as of right now, indoor gatherings of more than 10 people are actually prohibited.
That is not the whole truth.

"The ban contains numerous exceptions, including religious services, free-speech demonstrations, funerals, and weddings (as well as wedding receptions of up to 300 people starting June 1)."

Bret can just register it as either a religious service or as a wedding reception.

The Governor can't enforce a violation of our First Amendment rights, which is why there are these exceptions.

https://www.cleveland.com/opinion/2020/04/do-ohio-officials-have-the-authority-to-order-closures-and-other-coronavirus-measures-mark-r-brown.html

Lastly, Amy Action has overstepped her authority.

https://finneylawfirm.com/2020/05/21/constitutional-law-media-wrap-on-todays-big-win-overruling-dr-amy-acton-and-opening-ohios-gyms/
 

tunixx

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In this thread everything has already been said, just not by everyone. My estimations about the risk at an event like the ASLOK are based on the fact that I am a medical doctor. Furthermore I have continuously followed the medical literature since the beginning of the Covid-19 pandemic.

What do we know so far about how the Covid-19 virus transmits?

The cases where a large number of people have been infected all look very similar. Usually a group of people were in a locked room. It appears that not all people are equally infectious. While in some cases there is hardly any transmission of the virus, even when people have close contact, there are others that can infect a large number of people. These are the so-called "super-spreaders".

Speech seems to play an important role in the transmission of the virus. Every time we speak, we are releasing aerosols containing viruses. These aerosols have the potential to spread far inside enclosed spaces.
Masks can help to make the transmission of the virus more difficult. But they do not provide 100% protection.
Therefore, airing rooms seems to play a very important role in preventing the transmission of the virus.
Prof. Drosten, a virologist from the Charite in Berlin, said that he would rather be in a well-ventilated room without mask wearers than in a poorly ventilated room with mask wearers.
Ideally, one would speak as little as possible. Also, one should speak as quietly as possible.

On the other hand, the direct contact of people, i.e. transmission through smear infections, seems to play a much smaller role.

My personal conclusion is that attending a tournament like the ASLOK exposes you to an incalculable risk. It has already been pointed out that transmission of the virus occurs at the time when patients are asymptomatic. So everyone who goes to the ASLOK relies on the fact that none of the participants is an asymptomatic virus carrier at that time.

It is also important that not only all participants wear a mask, but also that the mask is worn in a correct way (i.e. mouth and nose are completely covered). According to my observation in the last weeks, 20-30% of all persons are not able to do this.
At work I wear one of the masks that offer high protection (FFP2 / N95). These masks become very uncomfortable after a relatively short time (about 2 hours).

My urgent recommendation is therefore not to hold this tournament as a face to face tournament but to hold the tournament virtually.
 
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von Marwitz

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With some logistical foresight - and some funds - you could rig up plexiglass shields over the playing surface, no different than the counter at 7-eleven.
It is a thought, indeed. Would need to be fixed firmly somehow to minimize the danger of a 400mm+ FOBA event.

The biggest issue would be contact with the board and counters themselves - but that is not insurmountable either.
One could establish a rule that each side uses/touches its own counters, only.

Most of the time, people play it that only the own side touches its own counters anyway. So expanding this on the counters would not be overly difficult.

Some special cases would have to be covered, though: Smoke counters owned by the side which originally placed it, same for Blazes & Spreading Flames. Melee Counters placed by the side which initiated it. Level counters by the side which first entered the location. Maybe one player has clipped counters, the other does not. Such rules and considerations should make it relatively easy to separate the counters to the correct owners afterwards.

If one player uses tweezers habitually, one could rule that this player is the one who should handle stacks of counters in which both sides are mixed.

Or one could rule that as soon as counters of different sides occupy the same hex, the counters of the attacking player are replaced by those of the defending player (i.e. he would provide counters for both sides in the given hex).

Mark me, this is just brainstorming and not to be considered final thoughts for such an approach.

von Marwitz
 

von Marwitz

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That would be cool. I think the highest I have ever been is 105 and my friends were starting to freak...
So would I if the speed limit were 65mph...

Actually, 105mph is my standard travel speed if there are no speed limits and the traffic density safely allows it. More often than not, this is not the case.

von Marwitz
 

von Marwitz

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Bret can just register it as either a religious service or as a wedding reception.
But ASLOK ain't neither a religious service nor a wedding reception.

What kind of thinking is this?
And why in the world should Bret do that and expose himself to possible legal liabilities?

von Marwitz
 

von Marwitz

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Has anyone you know played one of these? If so what was it like? Always wanted to try it. Seems cool but maybe not so much for the umpire.
I have a couple of times. Not a tournament but large scenarios over the course/time of an entire tournament. Loads of fun, but better treated in another thread.

von Marwitz
 

von Marwitz

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I'm viewing this year's ASLOK as effectively a sunk cost. I will likely be on the hook for significant costs either way as a result.
This is a problem that many people faced in one way or the other. Same here for a non-ASL related event cancelled at the end of March for me.

IMHO it is worth the attempt to renegotiate in an attempt to get you off the hook without significant cost in case you decide not to hold ASLOK.

After all, you have been a reliable customer for that hotel for many years generating plenty of revenue for them directly and indirectly by the ASLOK attendees that you attract. This should give you some leverage in renegotiation if they do not let you off the hook in the first place.

In my case, we managed to get off with no cost at all but because we plan to hold the event next year, we agreed just to let the location keep the funds already paid until then. So we did not feel we got screwed, they know that we want to come back, which is in their interest. Furthermore we help them in their difficult situation due to Covid, taking some risk in case they go bankrupt in the meantime. If we can hold the event next year, we will be considered to have already paid. Seems to be a fair deal to me for both sides.

von Marwitz
 
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The Magnus

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I drove my car at 135 mph today - but I am German... ;)
We Audi owners have to insist on our rights !!!! ?

Actually, my Audi is getting up in age just as I am, and it has weight problems, so mine will not go above 126 mph ???.
 

Sparafucil3

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I will regularly be coming down to 105 as I pull back into my lane after passing in my BMW
. Never thought to look where it topped out, but the guy I bought it from said that it started to poop out at ~130.

Not an Autobahn but a Wyoming state highway.
I could go a whole lot faster but I was comfortable at that speed. The "recommended" speed on the Autobahn is 130 K/h where no limit is posted. Beyond that pace, if there is an accident, it is held against you of you are traveling beyond that pace. I was trying to be reasonable. :) -- jim
 

Sparafucil3

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I'm viewing this year's ASLOK as effectively a sunk cost. I will likely be on the hook for significant costs either way as a result. Low attendance might beat cancelling, but it is likely close to a push. Once we determine what we are doing I can go to the hotel and attempt to renegotiate based on future years potentially, but I have no idea how likely that is to work at this point.

I can understand the VASL appeal, but as I am not a VASL guy at all it is not something I would consider running as an alternative to the live event at this time...
Bret, If you're on the hook, I recommend you set up a Kick Starter or a Go Fund Me. I know I would kick in. I bet others would too. Thanks for what you do. -- jim
 
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rdw5150

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Have you stopped going to your supermarket (i chose Wal-Mart, it could be another brand) due to this? Are you going to write a letter of complain to them saying they should not "control everyone's movement"?

Hi!

Thanks for the well thought out response.

Well, I tended to hate Walmart before all this started :D but when I do go to Walmart, grocery store, etc., I tend to go early before they get crowded (but I did this before as well) and I try to stay as far as I can from people, and I wear a mask. Which is all fine by me. If they have "directional" aisles, I ignore them (and I notice I am not alone, everyone ignores them). That is going too far in my opinion. We don't need to be herded around like sheep.

Getting back to ASLOK topic, the event is a highlight of the year for me, as I have stated. However, its not worth it (for me) if there are a ton of "restrictions". As I stated earlier, if I had to make the call right now, I would not go. One my my oldest friends is a doctor and when I asked him for advise, he concurs with tunixx (see his above post).

Stay well!

Peace

roger
 
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rdw5150

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I will be happy to pay my registration and buy a shirt to help defray the costs even if I'm not there, just to keep the ship afloat.
Ditto........ Or do something like kickstarter. I think people would be willing to donate to the cause. ALSOK registration is the best money I spend every year based on a cost per hours of enjoyment.

But I'd happily pay my registration and buy a tee shirt.

Matter of fact, I am going to pay my registration right now and I don't want a refund if its cancelled.

Roger
 
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