Questions around 10.711 voluntary rout and interdiction

Pyth

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10.711 VOLUNTARY ROUT: A non-berserk, non-pinned leader already stacked with a broken unit before it routs may elect to rout with the broken unit even though he is not broken. If he does so, the leader shares the broken unit's vulnerability to Interdiction and, although he does not have to take any Interdiction NMC himself, he is eliminated if the broken unit he is stacked on top of fails an Interdiction MC. He must remain with the broken unit throughout the RtPh, but is not considered broken and may add his leadership DRM to its Interdiction NMC. The leader, if already in possession of a SW, may portage it, but cannot improve the broken unit's portage capacity.

I routed a 9-1 leader with a pair of brokies into interdiction (something I hadn't done before -- but things were lategame desperate and they needed to make the trees rather than lowcrawl and avoid interdiction). I found myself less than certain about how to resolve this, with the following questions occuring:

1. Is routing a stack ok? They obviously could rout one at a time -- but in the past I've routed multiple brokies from the same point of origin as a stack as a time saver and no one has ever complained -- but is it strictly correct by the book to rout stacked brokies together?

2. So if indeed routing all these folks together is allowed. When they are interdicted each broken unit makes a separate MC and -- the Leadership modifer assists both broken units' MC? -- or just the one it is 'stacked on top of'? -- or none? I played it as assisting both.

3. When the unit that the Leader is stacked on top of receives a Pin result: the brokie halts his rout and the leader stacked with him "who shares his vulnerability to interdiction" must stop with him. (Right?) As the brokie gets no Pin counter I played it the Leader is not marked with a PIN counter either. Is that correct (It doesn't matter a whole lot, but if the leader is in a position to be advanced on for CC it could be consequential).

TIA
 
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klasmalmstrom

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1. Is routing a stack ok?
No.

A10.5:
"...Broken units must rout away (ATTACKER first—one unit at a time [EXC: Voluntary Rout; 10.711]) during that RtPh..."


3. When the unit that the Leader is stacked on top of receives a Pin result: the brokie halts his rout and the leader stacked with him "who shares his vulnerability to interdiction" must stop with him. (Right?) As the brokie gets no Pin counter I played it the Leader is not marked with a PIN counter either. Is that correct (It doesn't matter a whole lot, but if the leader is in a position to be advanced on for CC it could be consequential).
Sounds correct.
 

Mister T

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A10.5:
"...Broken units must rout away (ATTACKER first—one unit at a time [EXC: Voluntary Rout; 10.711]) during that RtPh..."
I would consider that the EXC does allow several units to rout with the leader, if only to benefit from the leadership DRM. I can see that the EXC may only allow one SMC to rout with one MMC, but this may be too restrictive an interpretation.
 

Pyth

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No.

A10.5:
"...Broken units must rout away (ATTACKER first—one unit at a time [EXC: Voluntary Rout; 10.711]) during that RtPh..."



Sounds correct.
Ooops. Ok another habitual rule error rooted out. Won't be my last I suspect! So the Leadership modifier applies to the one brokie's NMC -- I can't see why it wouldn't. You and Ric of the LBC seem divergent on the Pin marker. Not the world's most important question imo, if there's no definitive answer I won't lose sleep. I'll just play it however my opponent thinks it goes :)
 

Pyth

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I would consider that the EXC does allow several units to rout with the leader, if only to benefit from the leadership DRM. I can see that the EXC may only allow one SMC to rout with one MMC, but this may be too restrictive an interpretation.
Well, consider... the only reason I thought to ask about multiple units not being allowed to rout together was because I noticed while looking over Voluntary Rout that it seemed carefully worded to mention the SMC only moving and stacked with a singular 'broken unit.'
 
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klasmalmstrom

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I would consider that the EXC does allow several units to rout with the leader, if only to benefit from the leadership DRM. I can see that the EXC may only allow one SMC to rout with one MMC, but this may be too restrictive an interpretation.
What is the exact wording of A10.711? NRBH.
 

Ric of The LBC

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Ooops. Ok another habitual rule error rooted out. Won't be my last I suspect! So the Leadership modifier applies to the one brokie's NMC -- I can't see why it wouldn't. You and Ric of the LBC seem divergent on the Pin marker. Not the world's most important question imo, if there's no definitive answer I won't lose sleep. I'll just play it however my opponent thinks it goes :)
A7.8 "Place a Pin counter on all affected units."
 

Pyth

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A7.8 "Place a Pin counter on all affected units."
But this is from A7.8 too: Pinning affects broken units only during Interdiction (10.53), and even then only during the RtPh, so there is no need to place Pin counters on broken units.
 

jrv

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A7.8 "Place a Pin counter on all affected units."
A10.53 says the Interdicted unit is Pinned. A10.711 says the leader shares the broken unit's vulnerability to interdiction. I read this as applying the Pin to both units, but it would not be totally impossible that the Pin only applied to the broken unit.

JR
 

Mister T

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To me it sounds like just one broken unit is involved.
JR
True, but it doesn't prohibit other units to rout as a stack with a leader and "the broken unit" (thanks to the EXC in A10.5).
 

Pyth

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A10.53 says the Interdicted unit is Pinned. A10.711 says the leader shares the broken unit's vulnerability to interdiction. I read this as applying the Pin to both units, but it would not be totally impossible that the Pin only applied to the broken unit.

JR
The interpretation that seems most natural to me is that the brokies are pinned, but only during the Routph, so they are not marked... and as the leader shares this vulnerability with the brokie he was stacked with , he too is pinned only during the Routph and is also not marked.
 

Ric of The LBC

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But this is from A7.8 too: Pinning affects broken units only during Interdiction (10.53), and even then only during the RtPh, so there is no need to place Pin counters on broken units.
Yes, but the leader is not broken so it gets the counter. Leader shares the fate=Pinned
 
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Pyth

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Yes, but the leader is not broken so it gets the counter.
I admit you have a point there. I think there's an argument for both sides. I take comfort in knowing this Pin/not-Pin marked leader is a rare circumstance of very little consequence. I think I'm doubling down on my original resolution: I'll mark/not mark according to opponent's preference. I'm all about appeasement. Peace in our time!
 

jrv

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I think the two different readings have been clearly enunciated, and that there is no need for a back-and-forth posting of the positions and rules. The rules are not sufficiently clear whether the EXC: for voluntary rout means that only a leader can join with a broken rout, or whether the EXC allows multiple broken units to rout at the same time when conducted with a voluntary rout. If the latter is meant then it does raise the question of what happens when one of the many broken units routing is pinned and/or interdicted: how would that carry over to the leader? Would a pin of one (of several) broken unit end the rout of the leader and/or the other broken units For that reason if you believe that voluntary rout also allows multiple broken units to rout at the same time, you need to submit for a q&a explaining how that is resolved. That will also answer the question of whether routing multiple broken units is allowed in the first place.

The question of whether a voluntary-routing leader shares the pin of its broken unit (or units, as discussed above) is also another question that I think again could be submitted, as IMHO it is not 100% clear in the rules.

JR
 

Pyth

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@Ric of The LBC

Which Rulebook is that 10.711 from? Yours says at the end, explicitly, that the leader DRM applies for interdiction NMCs. I felt like an idiot for missing that until I realized the 10.711 I quoted inexplicably does not include that text.

@jrv. I'll bet you (and Mr. T) a million Web-Bux that the[EXC. Voluntary Rout] allows one brokie stacked with one leader, and no more. That's how confident I am. Hell... make it two million Web-Bux. --

Oh jeez, I just realized there's another circumstance that needs answering... and it may actually be the one that makes the most real over the board difference in a game: Can two leaders Voluntarily Rout with one brokie (allowing an extraneous leader to Rout away from trouble without voluntarily breaking.) ?
 
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