A little purchasing advise please

rgrove

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Im an old timer that gave up ASL years ago, (not enough time, work demands etc.) and sold everything off but now that Im retired (kind of) I got to thinking maybe it would be worth visiting. So I picked up the Starter Kits and sure enough, Im hooked again. The new core rules, Beyond Valor and Yanks are now on my shelf and Im snipping away at counters just like the good ole days but now Im a little frustrated, and confused, on how to proceed.

I see there are new editions (King and Country, Rising Sun) that are obviously new and very desirable but out of print and extremely rare even on ebay. (not to mention crazy expensive) And then there are some Im not so sure about (Doomed Battalions, Hollow Legions) still offered on the MMP site (though out of print) but look very much like the same product I used to own. Lastly Im wondering if the old editions (Partisans, Croix de Guerre, Armies of Oblivion etc.) are still useable? How much of a difference is there in the new editions? They are available out there at least whereas it doesn't look like MMP is in any hurry to even reprint what they've got!

Suggestions on how I should proceed?

Im 90% a solitaire player so its really not that important that I have a crisp, perfect, updated copy of every thing but I don't want to play a hopelessly out of date copy of the game either. Ive spent a week updating my rulebook and check out the errata on each scenario etc. but if an old copy of say Last Hurrah or Gung Ho can be played just fine with the inclusion of the new maps then I have lots more options open to me.

Thanks in advance!
 

JRKrejsa

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The new editions of the core modules are re-prints, usually with more scenarios. The older editions are usually fine, but there might be errata for the scenaros.
 

rgrove

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Ok, so if I got copies of the new style maps the old modules would work, counters etc. Just check rules and scenario errata?
 

von Marwitz

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Ok, so if I got copies of the new style maps the old modules would work, counters etc. Just check rules and scenario errata?
Old mouted map boards and old AH/MMP counters are 100% compatible with the latest rules and counters.

There are the following differences you might note:
  • There might have been errata for very few counters of older products, i.e. newer counters will be 'corrected'.
  • Older counters might not be die cut as precisely as the newer ones at times. The newer ones might stack better and could be a bit easier to read due to increased font size.
  • In details, the artwork of older maps and newer maps might differ now and then. This means LOS might not be exactly the same on old mounted boards and new SK style boards of the same number. That is not really an issue, because the golden rule is that whatever type of board you actually use in your game (cardboard or virtual) is the one relevant for LOS in that playing.
  • Mounted boards and SK style boards do not butt together optimally. This has mainly two reasons. First, the old mounted boards did not ever butt as precisely together as the SK style boards to begin with. Second, being mounted, the old boards are thicker than SK style boards, so you will have a 'step' when butting the different types together. To alleviate this, people usually would place an unused mounted board beneath the SK style board to reduce that 'step'
So as a bottom-line, whatever boards and counters you use, there is full compatibility.
What is inadvisable would be to use ASL 1st edition rules. Over the decades, numerous errata and some changes have added up that aren't always obvious. Even the 2nd Edition of ASL rules as currently available have seen many errata since the turn of the century. Sticky errata at the Texas ASL Club website are probably the most encompassing correction of this along with some replacement pages downloadable at MMP. Probably the easiest way for *mostly* up-to date rules is to use the Pocket ASL-rulebook for the rules and the 2nd Edition ASL-rulebook for the tables/chapter dividers, Chapter H, which the Pocket ASL-RB does not contain.

von Marwitz
 

Barking Monkey

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Von Marwitz nailed it. I also had a long hiatus and have overwhelmingly 1st ed. stuff. The one thing I updated was my rulebook. You can get all the maps you're missing individually from MMP at $5 each. If you play solitaire that much I would think about getting either 1st or 2nd edition SASL. I bought it back in the day and ignored it for 15 or 20 years. Something made me dust it off and give it a try a few years back and now I'm totally hooked. You'll pay a hefty price for 2nd edition if you can find it on ebay, but 1st edition (which only covers US, USSR, Germany & partisans) can sometimes be found for a more reasonable price (generation tables for the Brits and Italians are available in old editions of VFTT.)
 

bprobst

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Generally speaking there are all sorts of improvements with the new versions of the modules, varying from minor to major in impact. One of the major improvements IMO is the extra boards and extra scenarios that the new modules come with compared to the old modules. The improved counters (larger, clearer typeface, better die-cutting, etc.) are not to be sneezed at but IMO are only a "minor" improvement.

Those considerations aside, some of the reprints are more important than others. RS is a very nice package, but if you already have CoB and GH you won't notice anything dramatic. The same is true of Yanks2 vs. Yanks+Paratrooper. FKaC is a bit of a different animal, since it's WoA without any desert stuff; again, a nice package, but if you already owned the older module there's really nothing new there. The one that really stands out though is DB3. It's (IMO) much more than just a "reprint" of the original DB+LH with the usual format improvements -- the Chapter H section was heavily reworked and improved.

There is no "new" edition of AoO; the counters (but not scenarios) from Partisan were rolled into that module (the scenarios have not resurfaced anywhere else). Everything else are "future projects" so the originals are what we are all using.
 

rgrove

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So if FKaC is sitting there for $200+ and WoA can be had for less than half that... youd go with WoA? Then update the documentation where needed, grab the missing maps, look for the scenarios around the web and call it done? Or is it worth that $200?
 

clubby

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If you don't plan on playing desert, I'd purchase FKaC. I remember going through what you went through a few years ago and the first WoA I bought had terrible counters. They were super brittle and about 50 of them had separated top from bottom. I remember sitting at the kitchen table with a bottle of wood glue and a q tip and fixing them all.
 

Eagle4ty

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If you don't plan on playing desert, I'd purchase FKaC. I remember going through what you went through a few years ago and the first WoA I bought had terrible counters. They were super brittle and about 50 of them had separated top from bottom. I remember sitting at the kitchen table with a bottle of wood glue and a q tip and fixing them all.
But it's all still ASL & hey, in future years you'll come across those counters and say with a small sense of self pride, "Man I did that & they're still holding up!". It's all good!
 

rgrove

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Well Clubby sold me. I recall having a similar experience with separating counters years ago and I have no wish to repeat it. The desert stuff would be nice but Im more interested in Goodwood, Pegusus, Market Garden etc. than I am Tunisia so FKaC seems to be the right move...despite the ridiculous price. Don't know how Im gonna explain it to the Mrs.!
 

bprobst

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So if FKaC is sitting there for $200+ and WoA can be had for less than half that... youd go with WoA? Then update the documentation where needed, grab the missing maps, look for the scenarios around the web and call it done? Or is it worth that $200?
It depends a great deal on what that $200 means to me. If it means I don't eat for 6 months, well, clearly I'm not interested. If it only means that I don't buy any other new games for 6 months, it becomes a lot more attractive.

I would say that FKaC has to be the second printing (with the ASLSK style boards), not the first printing (with the mounted boards) before I'd even contemplate that kind of money for it.

If I have neither WoA nor FKaC, and I have the opportunity to buy one and only one ... then I'd get WoA. In an ideal world, I'd get both (and I did).

(Of course, I did it the easy way, by buying each module as and when it was released.)
 

clubby

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Well Clubby sold me. I recall having a similar experience with separating counters years ago and I have no wish to repeat it. The desert stuff would be nice but Im more interested in Goodwood, Pegusus, Market Garden etc. than I am Tunisia so FKaC seems to be the right move...despite the ridiculous price. Don't know how Im gonna explain it to the Mrs.!
Hey, do you ask the Mrs. to explain to you which apples or what brand of high falutin' toilet paper she buys? :D
 

ThePrimeMover

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I'm really interested in CH F especially after reading the excellent CH K style article in Annual '89

Awesome. That sold me. However I would tend to take the advice of those smitten in the past by the (IMO) underrated boxes of bygone days and await the new CH F/desert boards/Italian counters. There is no rush
 

ThePrimeMover

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Im an old timer that gave up ASL years ago, (not enough time, work demands etc.) and sold everything off but now that Im retired (kind of) I got to thinking maybe it would be worth visiting. So I picked up the Starter Kits and sure enough, Im hooked again. The new core rules, Beyond Valor and Yanks are now on my shelf and Im snipping away at counters just like the good ole days but now Im a little frustrated, and confused, on how to proceed.

I see there are new editions (King and Country, Rising Sun) that are obviously new and very desirable but out of print and extremely rare even on ebay. (not to mention crazy expensive) And then there are some Im not so sure about (Doomed Battalions, Hollow Legions) still offered on the MMP site (though out of print) but look very much like the same product I used to own. Lastly Im wondering if the old editions (Partisans, Croix de Guerre, Armies of Oblivion etc.) are still useable? How much of a difference is there in the new editions? They are available out there at least whereas it doesn't look like MMP is in any hurry to even reprint what they've got!

Suggestions on how I should proceed?

Im 90% a solitaire player so its really not that important that I have a crisp, perfect, updated copy of every thing but I don't want to play a hopelessly out of date copy of the game either. Ive spent a week updating my rulebook and check out the errata on each scenario etc. but if an old copy of say Last Hurrah or Gung Ho can be played just fine with the inclusion of the new maps then I have lots more options open to me.

Thanks in advance!
Welcome back old timer!

VASSAL is a game changer. No more losing against yourself in solo.
 
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