Suicide Creek Central....

[Darrell Andersen]

Re: Various Suicide Creek questions and comments

You are 100% correct Klas, I will edit the response above.

Also, upthread a bit, someone mentioned using smoke with the OBA. Note that weather is Mud and per A24.6 smoke is NA in Mud.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Re: Various Suicide Creek questions and comments

Also, upthread a bit, someone mentioned using smoke with the OBA. Note that EC are Mud and per A24.6 smoke is NA in Mud.

Technically, it is Weather (not EC) = Mud that makes SMOKE NA.

So the only non-Blaze Smoke that can exist is that from a destroyed Supply Dump (SC 7.5)?, Is such Smoke placed even it if has started to Rain?

 

[Darrell Andersen]

Re: Various Suicide Creek questions and comments

Yes, that is correct. Previous post ALSO amended.

How do you say "smarty pants" in Svensk?

 

[Aaron Cleavin]

Re: Various Suicide Creek questions and comments

In One Miserable night. Is the Pre-Game Bombardment considered an attack for purposes of allowing the US leader(s) Freedom of movement?

 

[Darrell Andersen]

Re: Various Suicide Creek questions and comments

No, as it is pregame.

From a historical standpoint, the Japanese lobbed nuisance rounds at the Marines throughout the night. Business as usual, so to speak.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Re: Various Suicide Creek questions and comments

10. For the Japanese AT Sect is the T-H-H retained if not used? Does it matter if he was HIP or a DC hero still part of a squad?
THH/DC Heroes are not retained.

Just to be clear - the DCs received per footnote t would be retained if not used during a CG-scenario, correct?

 

[Darrell Andersen]

Re: Various Suicide Creek questions and comments

Correct.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

Re: Various Suicide Creek questions and comments

Correct.

And their special "create-a-DC-Hero-from-the-possessing-MMC-without-a-dr" ability is also retained I assume.

 

[Darrell Andersen]

Re: Various Suicide Creek questions and comments

Correct.

 

[EagleIV]

New questions

Here are some more questions we come up with last night.

1. Is JD a hard hindrance (adding +2 to Firelanes) or is a a soft hindrance (adding 0 to FLs)?
Based on A9.222 it is a hard hindrance since it isn't listed as a soft hindrance, but based on what we feel is the correct feeling based on the +2 hindrance, but only +1 TEM the hindrance is more concealment and less cover and therefore it should be soft.

Note hard and soft hindrance aren't defined in the ASLRB, they are terms we use and are defined in the question.

2. B30.7 says that pillboxes occupants are known once an occupant makes an attack. Does this attack have to have occurred during the current CG date, or does an attack during a previous date mean the occupants are still known? (For an "official" answer this may have to go to MMP, but what did you play?)

3. This may be pushing the rules a lot, but I don't see the problem as it is written now ( but not allowing THH in cellars would work.) G1.422 allows HIP THH in any concealment terrain. A26.11 & A26.132 says that the HIP THH will prevent the Marines from gaining control of the pilbox/location. What is to prevent the Japanese from setting up HIP THH in pillbox cellars and using them to keep control of the pillbox (at least until Marines move into the cellar, or the AFV's show up and the THH are needed elsewhere)?

 

[Darrell Andersen]

Re: New questions

1. Is JD a hard hindrance (adding +2 to Firelanes) or is a a soft hindrance (adding 0 to FLs)?
Based on A9.222 it is a hard hindrance since it isn't listed as a soft hindrance, but based on what we feel is the correct feeling based on the +2 hindrance, but only +1 TEM the hindrance is more concealment and less cover and therefore it should be soft.
"Hard" hindrance based on A9.222 as mentioned above. The "logical" answer (more concealment, than cover) was pretty much a 50-50 split, but at best JD was still equivalent to scattered light jungle in some respects, therefore "hard" hindrance.

2. B30.7 says that pillboxes occupants are known once an occupant makes an attack. Does this attack have to have occurred during the current CG date, or does an attack during a previous date mean the occupants are still known? (For an "official" answer this may have to go to MMP, but what did you play?)
They begin the new date/scenario "fresh". I.E. they can be HIP/Concealed until they make an attack for each scenario as per B30.7.

3. This may be pushing the rules a lot, but I don't see the problem as it is written now ( but not allowing THH in cellars would work.) G1.422 allows HIP THH in any concealment terrain. A26.11 & A26.132 says that the HIP THH will prevent the Marines from gaining control of the pilbox/location. What is to prevent the Japanese from setting up HIP THH in pillbox cellars and using them to keep control of the pillbox (at least until Marines move into the cellar, or the AFV's show up and the THH are needed elsewhere)?[/QUOTE]
I see no problem with that a long as it fits with existing ASLRB rules. during PT, there was much HIP'ing of Japanese units causing the USMC to enter/search PBs. I don't remember an instance of using HIP THH for that purpose but I see no reason to prevent it.

 

[Aavar]

Re: New questions

3. This may be pushing the rules a lot, but I don't see the problem as it is written now ( but not allowing THH in cellars would work.) G1.422 allows HIP THH in any concealment terrain. A26.11 & A26.132 says that the HIP THH will prevent the Marines from gaining control of the pilbox/location. What is to prevent the Japanese from setting up HIP THH in pillbox cellars and using them to keep control of the pillbox (at least until Marines move into the cellar, or the AFV's show up and the THH are needed elsewhere)?

I see no problem with that a long as it fits with existing ASLRB rules. during PT, there was much HIP'ing of Japanese units causing the USMC to enter/search PBs. I don't remember an instance of using HIP THH for that purpose but I see no reason to prevent it.[/QUOTE]

This brings up another question you said THH are not retained, so at what point do they disappear? since that will probably affect hmm surrounded Stratetegic location rule.

 

[Darrell Andersen]

Re: New questions

"so at what point do they disappear?"

How many THH can dance on the head of a panzerfaust?

Non retained units are removed after the map is marked. I.E. when other units are moved within their setup areas or moved per SC4.7056.

That will leave THH able to "hold" a Strategic Location. Given that a hidden THH alone in a location is eliminated by simply moving into his hex (without so much as even forcing the moving unit to stop) I can't see this causing too much consternation to the USMC, while still providing some worth to the Japanese player.

On an editorial note, this tactic seems too clever by half. Using a THH in such a fashion degrades the Japanese ability to hurl THH at the Shermans and dozers in my opinion. YMMV of course.

On a further editorial note, you people are slimy, slimy bastards and I say that out of respect.

 

[EagleIV]

Re: New questions

On an editorial note, this tactic seems too clever by half. Using a THH in such a fashion degrades the Japanese ability to hurl THH at the Shermans and dozers in my opinion. YMMV of course.

On a further editorial note, you people are slimy, slimy bastards and I say that out of respect.

I agree it isn't a good tactic when Shermans and dozers are on the board, but if you can predict when they won't be on board it could work.

(edited from original since I just was reading and realized the Marines don't have to enter the AFV's for them to setup on board the next scenario.)

 

[rdw5150]

Re: Suicide Creek question

Greetings!

|Finished up the 1st date of the CG and a couple of questions came up........

1. Is there Ambush (assume no concealed units) between units in a SC PB and the SC cellar (assuming the PB is in ambush terrain if it even matters)?

2. If the American wants to set up dozers or tanks on map, do the CR have to already be bought to be used to set up map? In other words, if the American player wants to set up Dozers or AFV on map for Scenario 3, does he have to have already bought the CR between scenarios 1 and 2, or can he buy them between 2 and 3 and then use them right away to set up AFV or Dozers on board at the start of scenario 3.

Thanks!

Peace

Roger

 

[EagleIV]

Re: Suicide Creek question

Greetings!

|Finished up the 1st date of the CG and a couple of questions came up........

1. Is there Ambush (assume no concealed units) between units in a SC PB and the SC cellar (assuming the PB is in ambush terrain if it even matters)?

2. If the American wants to set up dozers or tanks on map, do the CR have to already be bought to be used to set up map? In other words, if the American player wants to set up Dozers or AFV on map for Scenario 3, does he have to have already bought the CR between scenarios 1 and 2, or can he buy them between 2 and 3 and then use them right away to set up AFV or Dozers on board at the start of scenario 3.

Thanks!

Peace

Roger

1. I would say no since it isn't ambush terrain as defined now.

2. You can buy CR for scenario 3 and use them to bring up the dozers, etc. that date, however as I read it if you buy the dozers on scenario 2 and they don't enter, then you can set them up on on scenario 3 for scenario 2 without any CR's since Dense Jungle is entereable terrain for Dozers and M4A2s.

 

[Darrell Andersen]

Re: Suicide Creek question

1. Is there Ambush (assume no concealed units) between units in a SC PB and the SC cellar (assuming the PB is in ambush terrain if it even matters)?
No ambush. COLOR]

2. If the American wants to set up dozers or tanks on map, do the CR have to already be bought to be used to set up map? In other words, if the American player wants to set up Dozers or AFV on map for Scenario 3, does he have to have already bought the CR between scenarios 1 and 2, or can he buy them between 2 and 3 and then use them right away to set up AFV or Dozers on board at the start of scenario 3.
Right away, during scenario 3.

Thanks!

Peace

Roger[/QUOTE]

 

[rdw5150]

Re: Suicide Creek question

1. Is there Ambush (assume no concealed units) between units in a SC PB and the SC cellar (assuming the PB is in ambush terrain if it even matters)?
No ambush. In fact, there is no CC as they are separate locations.

2. If the American wants to set up dozers or tanks on map, do the CR have to already be bought to be used to set up map? In other words, if the American player wants to set up Dozers or AFV on map for Scenario 3, does he have to have already bought the CR between scenarios 1 and 2, or can he buy them between 2 and 3 and then use them right away to set up AFV or Dozers on board at the start of scenario 3.
Right away, during scenario 3.

Thanks!

Peace

Roger

[/QUOTE]

Hi!

So, there us no CC in a PB Cellar? I am not certain I understand. If a units is in the PB location and there is an enemy in the cellar, can the unit in the PB not advance down?

Thanks!

Peace

Roger

 

[EagleIV]

I think you are both misunderstanding what the other is saying.

Darrell is saying that there is no CC when the Japanese are in the cellar and the Marines are in the Pillbox main level.

Roger was asking if (I think) is either the pillbox main level or the cellar ambush terrain.

The answers are neither is ambush terrain (although ambush is possible if either side is concealed), but units of both sides have to be in the same location (either cellar or main level) for CC to occur.

 

[klasmalmstrom]

I think you are both misunderstanding what the other is saying.

Darrell is saying that there is no CC when the Japanese are in the cellar and the Marines are in the Pillbox main level.

Roger was asking if (I think) is either the pillbox main level or the cellar ambush terrain.

The answers are neither is ambush terrain (although ambush is possible if either side is concealed), but units of both sides have to be in the same location (either cellar or main level) for CC to occur.

There can be CC vs units inside the SC PB Cellar and units in the SC PB (just like there can be between units inside a SC PB and units in the same hex outside of the SC PB) - i.e., they don't need to be in the same Location.

SC1.52:
"...IFT-fire/DC-placement/CC is allowed only between the SC Cellar and its Pillbox..."