German Campaign

gascan

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I started a German full 1916 campaign without Room 40. Despite playing DG before, this is the first time I have done a campaign, so I'm still learning as I go. I heard someone suggest that the German BCs would be good raiders in the Atlantic, so I gave it a shot. In mid-January I sent Seydlitz alone on a run north between Scapa Flow and Lerwick, then around to the south west. I met an AMC a bit north of Lough Swilly and sank it (the victory report jumped from + to ++, probably related to the apparent inability of the RN to defend their home island), the continued west around Ireland and back into the channel.

I sent the HSF to meet Seydlitz and escort her back on her triumphant return home. Northeast of Amsterdam the 5th Cruiser Squadron caught up to me from behind. The destroyers broke and ran, the cruisers closed to make a torpedo attack from the rear of the force. I broke off my PDNs to engage and sank all four without a hit on my own forces (the victory report jumped to +++). I later nabbed a transport, then polished off the six destroyers that had escaped after rendezvousing with Seydlitz and returned home on January 13 to the crowds cheering the first blow of many against the mighty British.

After this first victory I'm feeling confident enough to bring up the HSF Minelayers to a base in the Channel and start laying mines off ports that support British submarines. Dunkerque, Calais, Dover, Chatham, Southend, Harwich, Lowestoft, and Great Yarmouth are on the target list. What forces might I expect to find at those bases? What escort should I provide for my minelayers? How can I best prevent British minelayers like Abdiel from blocking up my passages? Any thoughts on the tactic of using BCs as raiders? Did I just get lucky? Should I send them around north like before, or sneak them through the channel to the hunting grounds near Plymouth, Queenstown, and Liverpool?
 

smithcorp

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I'd wondered about the German breakout and whether there was any scope in the campaign for supporting commerce rading on the western approaches if a German player got some ships out of the North Sea? How could you keep raiders coaled and victualled out there? Could the campaign simulate this?
 

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I'd wondered about the German breakout and whether there was any scope in the campaign for supporting commerce rading on the western approaches if a German player got some ships out of the North Sea? How could you keep raiders coaled and victualled out there? Could the campaign simulate this?
The larger German ships had the range to go there and back. However, they had to run the gauntlet both ways, whether via the Channel or north-about.

I've always wondered what would have happened if the Easter Rising had succeeded. This would have allowed the Germans to use the southern Irish bases. We thought about putting this in the campaign be ultimately decided against it.
 

gascan

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I'd be very happy if I could resupply in Ireland. On the northern route I didn't run into any ships until I was well clear of Scapa Flow. While passing through the channel I constantly met small boats that ran away. I will continue to experiment with this raiding idea, although I will take a look at the British campaign to get an idea what opposition I will find over that way.
 

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I guess that BC raiding TFs could work with room 40 deactivated...I have it turned on and so, I don't dare risking the ships.
I've been in the verge of trying a raiding TF of 2xDerrflingers and 2x 28 knot CLs (to give some cover in case of a massed DD assault), but I always hesitate and call the whole thing off. I'm currently in April'16 and know I have only a couple of months to do something like that (it will be unthinkable once Repair&Refit are in service)

About raiding the channel with a small TF based on one or two BCs...isn't the 3rd Battle Squadron based there?. I know a BC can run away from the old PDs and Dreadnought, but if you've gotten into the channel after circling all around the british islands maybe there's no other option than try and force the passage because of range issues...and all that massed firepower can really hurt a BC enough to sink it or slow it down enough so it can be catched later.

Also I'm seeing a lot of british minefields in the channel in the campaign, that's bad news for a big ship.

Don't know but I think the risks of trying to pull that one would be quite big...I'll have to try it by myself sooner or later.
 

Bullethead

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I will continue to experiment with this raiding idea, although I will take a look at the British campaign to get an idea what opposition I will find over that way.
To me, a lot of the fun is thinking up a strategy you HOPE will work but you don't know if it will. Alea iacta est, audentes fortuna iuvat! Problem is, Fortuna is a woman so of course you can't trust her always to favor you, no matter how bold you are. But to me, that's the fun. After all, if, after I cast the die, I get all my guys killed, I've got even more excuse for being bold. She finds that a real turn-on :p Besides, I can always start over. But to each his own.

I guess that BC raiding TFs could work with room 40 deactivated...I have it turned on and so, I don't dare risking the ships. I've been in the verge of trying a raiding TF of 2xDerrflingers and 2x 28 knot CLs (to give some cover in case of a massed DD assault), but I always hesitate and call the whole thing off. I'm currently in April'16 and know I have only a couple of months to do something like that (it will be unthinkable once Repair&Refit are in service)
That's my usual line of thought, too. With Room 40 on, odds are very high that you will be intercepted by Beatty at least, probably Jellicoe also. I've always considered turning off Room 40 was for Brit players who want a real challenge. For the Germans, turning it off gives them basically free rein. To get a fleet action going, the pretty much have to give themselves away, on terms of their choosing.

Also I'm seeing a lot of british minefields in the channel in the campaign, that's bad news for a big ship.
Yeah, the Brits and French are bad about that, ain't they? :D
 

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There was no chance the 1916 Irish rebellion could succeed.It was so disorganised as in 1640s and 1798. Anyway the British would have destroyed port facilities if there was any chance the Germans could use them.
 

Bullethead

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There was no chance the 1916 Irish rebellion could succeed.It was so disorganised as in 1640s and 1798. Anyway the British would have destroyed port facilities if there was any chance the Germans could use them.
Well, IMHO 2 things doomed the Easter Rising:

1. The Brits capturing most of the stuff the Germans tried to send there in 1914 (and of course the Germans not sending any more later), and

2. The armageddon-embracing nihilism of certain earlier, more radical groups, surviving members of which had infiltrated the heirarchy of movement. These guys thought in terms of martyrdom eventually bringing about change, and I guess they were proved right in the end. But anyway, these guys coerced or sidestepped the official leadership and ordered things to go ahead in spite of the real bosses calling it off due to things like insufficient arms so far acquired.

So the way I see it, these radical would have made the Rising happen at Eastertide 1916 regardless. The general lack of popular support at the time I think was largely due to most folks soberly counting rifles and figuring the odds. How would their opinion have changed had there been a lot more rifles? Plus, if there had been more rifles, the real leadership would have been more enthusiastic, so the radicals wouldn't have had to short-circuit them. Hence, much less disorganization come the day.

As I understand it, the Brits were taken largely by surprise when things broke out, and weren't in position to destroy the port facilities. They just didn't have enough folks there, what with Flanders Fields going on at the time. So, it seems to me that if the Germans had provided more help, things might have turned out rather differently.
 

gascan

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After sinking the Abdiel, I made a big raid into the Channel with my BCs. In three night encounters I sank 18 DDs, 1 CL, and 1 AC. After the first action, in which I sank 12 enemy DDs for only one of my own (friendly fire incident: my BCs secondaries kept firing at a sinking ship, and one of my DDs got in the way), I separated Seydlitz, Stralsund, and Regensburg for a raiding cruise off the west coast of Ireland and Britain. This force spotted the Dupetit-Thouars and some DDs, which broke contact after putting a shell in Regensburg. The Scouting Force then encountered another group of DDs, this time backed up by a CL. Once all these ships were sinking (without significant damage to any of my ships) I hit the "end battle" button and promptly another TB showed up and landed fatal blows to five of my DDs before getting sunk. Lesson: never ever use the "end battle" button. As the sun rose, Seydlitz and her raiders caught sight of the shadowing force they had encountered earlier. This time I chased down the AC and sank it and one other destroyer. I spent too much ammunition, however, so I sent them back home to reload for a subsequent mission. I've also managed to bring the minelayer Nautilus to Zeebrugge. I plan to keep pushing in the Channel and getting raiders through to deal with cargo vessels.
 

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Also I'm seeing a lot of british minefields in the channel in the campaign, that's bad news for a big ship.

Don't know but I think the risks of trying to pull that one would be quite big...I'll have to try it by myself sooner or later.
Actually victory condition wise, it is too easy to win for the Germans. The real goal and task was so much larger and harder.

Mine the area around your channel bases asap.

Sink all the enemy minelayers and the monitors while you are at it. For that matter sink all those small ships that plague the area! Use only groups of CL to sweep with unless your feeling frisky (which I tend to do). You can get away with night bomards of Dover area by the HSF and make it back before GF shows up..at least I have. Doing this risk early in the game is better than later because it takes the Brits a bit to build up minefield so the channel is more open for...awhile.

This is where all my German campaigns begin (channel), and have been quite successful. You have to be quite careful about the British BCs until you have handled them.

The problem is the endless supply of patrol craft (TBs DDs) plugging up the channel and any transports nearby. It would be soooo nice to have the Blucher or a few German AC..lol One campaign I sunk enough of the GF they just quit showing up all together and I was sending the obsolete battleships to patrol the channel and guard my minelayers from the endless supply of DD's.
 

Bullethead

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Actually victory condition wise, it is too easy to win for the Germans. The real goal and task was so much larger and harder.
Yeah, we don't have all the sandbars in the Channel that plug it up enough to make it pretty silly to operate big ships down there in quantity, complete with entourage. If you want more of a challenge as the Germans, don't send heavy units further down than Lowestoft. Do all your Channel stuff only with whatever light forces you can cram into Zeebrugge and Oostende.

Realistically, you could maybe do like the WW2 "Channel Dash" in reverse, with a couple of BCs and a few DDs tagging along, but that would be about the practical limit of heavy ship involvement down there.
 
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In my campaign as the Germans, I sent the Lützow on a raiding mission alone out to the western approaches since most of my other BC's were repairing damage from an earlier encounter with the BCF (in which I sunk the three Invincibles). As I approached the Shetland Islands Lützow encountered the BCF and the entire Grand Fleet. I wasn't too worried because I could outrun all the big units except Tiger. However they sent all their DD's and CL's after me. I sunk quite few DD's and a couple of CL's and got away when darkness fell. The only problem was I was totally out of 15cm and 8.8cm ammo. So I just went around the British Isles and all I had to show for it besides the sunk DD's and CL's was one AMC and one captured nuetral. Now I'm just going to concentrate on destroying the BCF and the 3rd BS and maybe the 1st BS if I'm lucky.
 

gascan

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Here's a little update on my campaign. As I mentioned earlier, I ran a raid into the mouth of the Channel with the Scouting Force and sank 18 DDs, a CL, and an AC for the cost of 6 DDs. To cover their return, I sent out the HSF, which encountered the BCF near Yarmouth. In a series of night encounters I sank 11 DDs, 1 FL, 11 CLs, and 2 AC at the cost of 6 DD, 1 CL, and a torpedo hit each on 2 of my predreads, slowing the force to a sustained 12 knots. However, it seems I was overeager to get the BCF in the night, because now that the sun has risen I am being chased by the whole GF. I'll fight the battle tomorrow, but I'm glad I saved often in case it goes badly. The campaign requires different thinking than the tactical battles. Because of the extensive fighting in the night, I have not been able to experiment with using BCs as raiders.

During the night fighting, I noticed one unfortunate side effect of automatic secondary defensive fire. It seems that the secondaries will target sinking ships if there aren't any better targets. Since I can't tell them to stop, this wastes ammo. It also cost me a destroyer who was sailing in a supposedly safe place at just the wrong moment and got nailed on the waterline by all the secondaries from one of my BCs.
 

Bullethead

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I'll fight the battle tomorrow, but I'm glad I saved often in case it goes badly.
You really should someday try the campaign without mulligans. Learn to live and die by your decisions and the fortunes of war. I bet you'd find that more enjoyable, due to the added stress :).

I save very few times. I save right at the beginning of a campaign, once I've given all my initial orders. After that, I only save when a battle ends, never during one unless I have to quit playing for some real life reason. Otherwise, I rely exclusively on the midnight autosave.

During the night fighting, I noticed one unfortunate side effect of automatic secondary defensive fire. It seems that the secondaries will target sinking ships if there aren't any better targets.
Old military axiom: "Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice". You're never SURE that an enemy ship is no longer a threat until the waves close over it. The historical record is fully of instances of blazing hulks firing to the last. Remember, your AI gunners are fighting for THEIR lives, while you're completely safe. In their world, there's no colored dot to tell them the enemy will sink--they have to see the thing go down to be sure.
 

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and a torpedo hit each on 2 of my predreads, slowing the force to a sustained 12 knots. However, it seems I was overeager to get the BCF in the night, because now that the sun has risen I am being chased by the whole GF. I'll fight the battle tomorrow.
Aye, they always seem to be lurking over the horizon. Normally I would take my gains and run back to port:) With the injured predreads (you may have to sacrifice them aka the Blucher method) and that far from home with a full day of daylight and the entire fresh GF and a still operational BCF. Sounds costly.

Sounds like a challenge, let us know how it goes.
 

gascan

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Since this is my first campaign ever, I'm taking it easy with Room 40 off and lots of saving so I can learn the controls and basic operational planning without the heavy losses I would take from simple mistakes. I've still got a ways to go. Example: I've tried several times to bring the minelayer Nautilus to Zeebruge, but she always seems to be just a bit short when the sun rises and the 5th Cruisr Division would get her. I only just realized that you can check when the operation will begin and end, which would have told me that she would have been short each time.

I'm currently laser-etching awards for Fleet Meeting and Awards Ceremony on Sunday, otherwise I'd be hard at work escaping :sneak:
Kotori seems to do pretty well in fleet battles, so if I can't take 'em, I'll give him a chance.
 

Bullethead

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Since this is my first campaign ever, I'm taking it easy with Room 40 off and lots of saving so I can learn the controls and basic operational planning without the heavy losses I would take from simple mistakes.
I'm just thinking giving you your money's worth. Face it, the main reason you're doing all this is so you'll know what to expect, so you can develop a plan that's sure to win. You're pretty much admitted as much. After you do that, though, why ever play it again?
 

gascan

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At 0216 AM, January 26 1916 (today, 93 years ago) battered survivors of the High Seas Fleet sailed into Wilhelmshaven. After some successes during a sweep of the mouth of the Channel by the Scouting Force during the night of January 23-24, the HSF grew overeager when they realized they were in contact with the BCF and hung around near Yarmouth for too long. They encountered the GF the next day and again during the night as they tried to escape. Including some smaller actions by the battlecruisers, all told the Germans lost 7BB, 3PDN, 1CL, and 36DD. The British lost 17BB, 4BC, 5AC, 19CL, 58DD.

It's late(early) and I need to sleep, so more details and some screen shots will come later today.
 

Sven6345789

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i seem to be very conservative in compared. i created three gerrman fleets. the scouting forces with BCs and the fast CLs plus 6 half-flottillas of DDs. The Minelayers including the bight defense forces, the old CLs and the PDs. and of course, the high seas fleet. and i mine and mine and mine... have several large minefields reaching out to the dogger bank. i use the minelaying subs to mine the dover area. wonder how it will develope...
still no major battle.
the idea of putting the koenig class into the scouting forces is an interesting one indeed.
 
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