Die Hochseeflotte

TBR

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

 
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TBR

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TBR

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Since I'm "home" for the weekend till middle of next week I can only post pre-scanned pictures for the next five days, limiting me to one per day. I kinda hoped that I could have stopped the countdown today but, alas, it was not to be. So here is todays picture:

 
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TBR

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Here is today's picture:
 
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Bullethead

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

That pic of Seydlitz must have been taken while they were still outside the harbor being pumped out. It appears to me that the ship's stern is sticking up steeply and she's listing a bit. All those guys must still have been stone deaf from the shooting the day before.
 

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

:) :) :)

The three older guys in officers coats are probably the ships and the staffs Zahlmeister, civilian naval officials holding officers status. Might also be Torpeder, Feuerwerker or Torpeder-Ingeneure, though they normally weren't aboard (you were more likely to find Zahlmeister) can't definitely say since the colour of the hatband doesn't come through.


The "broad striper" sitting in the back is also most probably such a civilian official attached to the staff, as well as the bandaged chaplain.

Since you can't see colour in this picture he might be the staffs Feuerwerker-Kapitän or Torpeder-Kapitän, if they had one recalled for wartime service aboard (unlikely, but could explain the apparent age). I don't think he's an engineer or doctor, those should be too occupied at that moment...

That should make the Oberleutnant zur See the lone commisioned line officer in the picture, also most probably an officer on the staff. This explains why they actually have the leisure to take their soup on the quarterdeck.


Couldn't resist posting some content of this very nice site (Warning! It's in German)
http://kaiserliche.marineuniformen.de/index.php?idcat=23
 
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TBR

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Todays picture is one of the justly famous pictures of the aftermath of Jutland:
 
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TBR

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Here is today's picture:

Now we know it: "Seydlitz" forward turret was named "Anna" not "Anton" :)
 
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TBR

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Here is the last "Skagerrak" picture. If tomorrow isn't our "Golden Day" (greetings WW) I'll continue withe the "Doggger Bank" pictures in another thread.

For those with enough German: At times the author, F.O. Busch is far too revisionist, but consider the context of the time this book was published in. I post it for the pictures and the original material, this means in no way that I share in any of the views expressed in the texts. (I felt this little disclaimer is in order what with the political nature of some of the texts in this thread)
 
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bpmcgee

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

TBR,

Thanks for the awesome pictures.


My German is very rusty. It's a lot of work, but it would be really cool if you could translate for us!


B
 

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Text from the last photo:

A plaque shown by the French in the trenches at Chevillecourt:

"The >>Great Victory<< at Skagerrak is... an English victory! After many days of hesitation the German Admiralty finally decided to confirm the loss of "Lutzow", "Westfalen", "Pommern", "Rostock", "Elbing", "Wiesbaden", "Frauenlob" and numerous torpedoboots(destroyers). It still keeps secret the loss of "Kaiserin" and "Hindenburg"!... German fleet remains trapped in its bases - where it escaped! The command of the seas belongs to the English more than ever!"

Admiral Scheer wrote in his short description "Thoughs on the battle of Skagerrak"

"The results of the battle: We have proved to the entire world, that the English fleet is not invincible, and that we have to fight our way to the right of German Nation to open seas. What was the principle of our national development in the last twenty years was embodied in that battle".

The best assessment of the achievements of the Hochseeflotte belongs to the former enemy. The English book by Corbett on the war at sea entitled "The War at Sea", Vol 2, p. 418 says:

"What Admiral Scheer achieved is glorious enough for him to be placed among the greatest admirals of all time"
 

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Not quite. It says "A plaque made by the French". The soldiers showing it, I believe, are wearing German uniforms.
 

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Not quite. It says "A plaque made by the French". The soldiers showing it, I believe, are wearing German uniforms.
"Aufgestelltes by the Franzosen" - literally "placed", "put up" or, even better, "displayed" by the French. Captured, obviously. The size of the letters suggests that this plaque was somehow brought near German lines or left in places frequented by German patrols.
Ot it is only a product of the German propaganda :D:D
 
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PepsiCan

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Nope, aufgestelt means "created", "formulated" or "to draw up". The plaque is propaganda material made by the French for Germans to read (which they are doing because the uniforms are German).

I also doubt very much that German propaganda would be so anti-German. It highlights alied victories and basically says that the German high command is hiding its true losses.
 
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Rhetor

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Nope, aufgestelt means "created" or "formulated".
True. But "Aufstellen" also means to "erect", "put up", "install", "lay down", "mount", "set up" and some more.

The plaque is propaganda material made by the French for Germans to read (which they are doing because the uniforms are German).
That's sort of a given.



I also doubt very much that German propaganda would be so anti-German.
I meant the "conspiracy-theory-like-version" that the plaque was created with obvious mistakes (like more ships sunk than it was the case, sometimes even ships which were not completed - like "Hindenburg") to show an average German soldier that the French propagandists were lying like hell - that is why i put two big :D :D behind this possibility. Of course it is very, very improbable.
 

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Okay, so we agree then that is not the French that are showing the plaque, but the Germans. And that the plaque was made by the French?
 

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Okay, so we agree then that is not the French that are showing the plaque, but the Germans. And that the plaque was made by the French?
Of course. I sometimes get carried away by my weird imagination, especially after having worked for quite a few hours on a hard English-Polish translation :(
 

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Re: Jutland - the pictoral countdown

Okay, so we agree then that is not the French that are showing the plaque, but the Germans. And that the plaque was made by the French?
Yeah. It was routine on both sides for troops in the trenches to taunt the enemy. One of the common methods was to make signs giving news from other fronts that was unpleasant for the enemy, then sneak out at night and plant these signs in the enemy's barbed wire, so they'd see them in the morning. I submit that this is what happened here, and the photo is showing the sign after the Germans had snuck out the next night to retrieve it.

I've read where this sometimes led to long exchanges of competing messages, rather like modern flame wars in forums :). I get the impression, however, that this sort of thing was the brainchild of officers with too much time on their hands (the most dangerous thing there is in war :(). "Keep the lads' spirits up with a little exciting enterprise, eh what?" I'm sure troops who actually had to do the sneaking around didn't like it at all--just about as dangerous as doing a real trench raid but all completely pointless BS from their POV. I wonder how many men died putting up these signs for no military purpose other than so some major could brag to the colonel about the morale of his battalion....
 
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