Question about DCG

[ER_Chaser]

I played one scenario on the Afrikacorps DCG in WF I just got to run (thanx to blade :) )... and I read the manual quite carefully, yet I still did not figure out what is victory in DCG. I check the "victory" menu, it only says, "campaign". Afterwards, when the turn runs out, it only showed me with a german face ... no summary at all? Does that mean I did poorly? I then check the "review campaign" in the main menu, I saw the last battle was listed and result was "satisfactory" (I guess that means I do not get court-martialed and could live on in the camp for another round... :P )... but I was very confused: because I was leading the II tank battalion of the 15th pz div, the mission was to "break out an encirlcement of british forces". The "exit objective" (labeled as Axis, odd) was at the upper right cornor ---- which I never had a chance to touch it (hordes of english tanks were then, in the hex, of course, I thought it was Axis owned, so I send platoons of loaded trucks and halftracks of infantries to go there for exit, ... well, surely ... you know what happenned next. :D ) And there were other some 400 VPs on the map, while I touched none of them either (I was confused by that as well.. isn't this an exit task? What do I do even if I get one of those VPs? Hold them? That is against order!), all I did was using my panzers and tankkillers to set up a close perimeter around the british armor concentrations and destroyed groups of english steels (quite some, I do not know why computer set up so many tanks for itself ---- at least 5 times more than mine.... btw, I set the AI to be "hard"... is that the reason? A "hard" A/I is not a smarter one, but just a more messive one with the same head?But that is fine, most games are at this level yet, except chess.) So I got some 400 VPs by killing and lost about 100VP for my comrades. And the result ended up being "satisfactory". So I am totally lost. I thought I could get court-martialed ---- I completely failed the objective of breaking through --- not even a chance!
Ok, then, I went to the next scenario, oh my! It asked me to "break out" again! .... Is that setting for DCG? If you failed the type of task, but somehow you prevailed in front of you own military police, you are gonna to do the same type of task again and again, until you can do it or it did you?

Many thanks...

:)

[John Paul]

I don`t know if i can answer all your questions,but i`ll try on a couple.
1.The missions in a DCG are random,it is quite possible to get the same type of mission several times in a row.Just wait until you start getting river crossing missions,then you`ll wish you were back on armored breakthrough.
2.How you accomplish your missions all depends on your personal playstyle.There is no "right" or "wrong" way to accomplish mission objectives.I personally find breakthrough missions confusing,escpecially if your new to the game.You do not have to exit your units to win,say what?,yes its true.As i wrote its playstyle.Take as many objectives as you can,inflicting as much loss as possible on the enemy,on your way to exit hex.You will need to leave at least one unit in each captured objective hex,which detracts greatly from your assualting strength,but hey why take them in a fight only to have some unit you missed walk right back into it.The Po loves to stuff every unit it can in and around the exit hex in breakthrough missionsUse this to your advantage as soon as the area in and around the hex becomes visible to your units just start calling in artillery strikes,until you feel the enemy is sufficently weakened or your sufficently strong enough to take it.Leave exit hexes as your last objective to take.
3.Exit hex objectives are marked in your colors,but should have a question mark on them,to let you know that it is well an exit.This is confusing but after a couple times you should get used to it.
4.If i wasn`t very clear or helpfull please excuse as sometimes i have a tendency to skip over things.also the example i used for doing breakthrough missions is how i play them,you will probablely find methods which are better suited to your style of play.

[ER_Chaser]

and figured out the same damn thing for breakthrough missions... so in that sense, it would become the easiest one :D since the PO wasted its resources at useless point ...

Paul, thank you so much, your words were very clear and helpful.

Also now I am starting to learn some tactics on field (not merely just watch them shooting for fun any more) ----- I guess I will need quite sometime to learn --- before I can breath a chance to fight with you guys here.

Again, thank you.

:)

[John Paul]

No problem.
This is a pretty simple game system to learn,so it shouldn`t take you too long.

[ER_Chaser]

Maybe I am a little slow to learn :)
The good news is on the third battle I fought, I got a medal ... lol (I did not expect that, because in ACOW, there was never a such thing at all... I thought Talonsoft did not make medals :D ) But I still on my way (seems a long way yet) to understand how to combine the infantry and tank (tank vs. tank ... I feel, is the most straightfoward thing? Just flank), infantry and AT gun. I thought about surround infantry and then assault with tanks w/ infantry --- but it is too costy, in terms of the forces I need to dispatch, esp. Then AT guns were hardly useful to me yet, I used them against tanks, the 37mm hardly could do anything, against inf., nope either. I guess that is partially because of the offensive role I was playing, probably AT guns are best for embush only. Tankdestroyers are just like tanks, thanks to the fact that those were only aux. forces in the campaign I played, I can abuse them (lol ) .... But if playing face to face and every unit count games, I think I still expose them too much. (I still did not find a good way to lure the enemy without exposing some stronger forces. i.e., other than infantry unit.) If I merely sent infantries ahead, it seems that: 1. it is subject to retreat rather too often, either by indirect fired upon or directly. 2. It does not form any creditable threat to the enemy. ... Of course, so far I found the good thing about infs is that the loss is always relatively light and thus a 6SP unit can last relatively long. So probably inf. are the best type to infiltrate and cut off enemy from behind. ... well, still too little experience, just guessing, did not prove yet. Also that char of inf. in my mind could be because of the campaign I played was in Afrika and tank battles were the major thing historically there as well.

Am I right in some way? Please teach me more, our combat-harden veteran generals! :)

[John Paul]

Well i don't know about being a battle hardened general,probablely more of a rabid cub-scout:rolleyes: .You hit the role of AT right on the head they are better as defensive/ambush weapons,though some of the larger caliber ones can get in lucky shots offensivily.Be carefull about your infantry,they may seem tough,as everytime a unit is shot at its not one shot but a number of shots equal to the sp in the firing unit.Its rare but i've actually given and recieved up to 3-4 sp loss in a single firing unit.There are some excellent stratagey articles here on the homepage dealing with tactics.Have you thought about using tanks to screen your infantrys advance?Hell you throw enough vehicles into a hex and anything behind it goes out of line of sight from that direction.Also PO seems to fire at the nearest unit usually,so tanks forming a screen or line will take the direct fire while you can get your other units up close to do some dirty work.Its been awhile since i played westfront(darn cd acted up on me)but i think your correct about at least in early desert war tanks being better suited than infantry.Also use the terrain to your advantage,scout out line of sights for hexes ahead of time.Use ridges and hills to screen the advance of your more vunerable units.Take the high ground,put an OP on the highest piece of ground that you can find with an excellent field of vision.Don't forget that not all units in your lineof sight appear right away,sometimes not until they fire or move.(learned this the hardway)I take it your facing mainly matildas and AC cruiser tanks
The AC's are crap,and the matildas are slugs.use this to your advantage you should be able to find a nice standoff range and pound the AC's.I personally think the biggest threat the Commonwealth forces have in the desert is their 25pdr guns,they can even give your armor problems with direct fire.Well i think i've about covered what i can think of.Now i need to get that first cup of Joe(as i can`t think right until i have it:D ).Good hunting and read the stratagey articles,very helpfull.

[John Paul]

Oh PS:Infantry do not have flanks or rears,like other units.Apparentlly after they move shoot they always form square;) .I always get a kick out of this,Okay men prepare to recieve charge...oops wrong war though the french were the baddies in that one too:D

[ER_Chaser]

I forgot to ask you that question, it actually did take out the only 2 casualties of my armored force in the 3rd scenario I played. I was very surprised. Is that the only artillery capable of taking out armors? I tried a lot of times to use my arty on their amors, but always no effect. I noticed that high SP stack can block views. But I did not come to the idea of screening my inf. with my armors. (partially because armors were my "core" forces.) It is a cool idea! The VPs for tanks are only slightly higher than the foot soldiers, but it defintely can absorb more shots, and advance undisrupted. I will try that :) And ... yea, should read those works posted here.

[John Paul]

All artillerry is capable of taking out armor,though some is better than others.As the axis your better off using it in a traditional role.
Those 25pdrs are better at it than most.I think if armor is taken out by indirect arty fire its called "disabling".Your armor can be disrupted though i doubt the commonwealth forces are any match for it.Heres another little trick move your soft units side to side when advancing when in site of the enemy,it throws off his arty strikes,try not to have too many soft units around each other as law of averages will work against you.Heres an example,tired of having your advancing inf disrupted,retreated,mauled on its way to the objectives by what seems like never ending accurate arty strikes.Zig-zag your units up to the objective as the PO will usually call strikes into the hexes directly ahead of your units move one space over one space up then reverse to the other direction next turn.This takes time but you should always keep moving forward until in shooting range of the enemy.then fire off a shot move to the side or back a space,as the next turn will probablely find a barrage put down on that hex,or the ones directly ahead.With practice this tactic can greatly reduce your infantry losses,as in my opinion arty is the great killer of infantry in this game,at least more so than most units.This tactic can also work for you defensivly,though it takes a little more skill and care to make it work.

[Major Major]

Ambulance Chaser,

I see you're taking to CS! It is a great game from so many angles. I also like playing DCGs (when time permits). A couple of other things to think about:

When in 3D mode, use the 't' key to show how many action points your units have left. This will help you avoid forgetting about certain units and to coordinate who you move and when.

Also, actively use the 'h' and 'v' keys to plan your attack. 'v' will show what you can see - and equally important - what your opponent sees. Use terrain effective to move under cover and take high ground to scout enemy units. 'h' will tell you where you can move to achieve all of this!

Learn which of your enemy's units are most deadly and eliminate them first. I usually go for artillary and HQ units. The latter are high in points and if taken early enough, can prevent dependant units from 'rallying' from disruption or supplying adequately. Use the 'z' key to learn the range of your units and play both sides to learn both units.

Units will perform differently during different periods of the war. For example, german infiltry is notably better at attacking tanks later in the war then in the early years (some units, like engineers, always have strong AT capabilities).

There's also a good excel sheet you should also look at with stats on WF units. Its good to quickly assess the pros/cons of the different units. It should be at the HQ download section. Let me know if you can't find it and I'll email it to you.

Happy hunting!
Major Major

[ER_Chaser]

Great reading of your posts, full of priceless helps! Thank you all.

I will try to download and read more stuff tomorrow (my office machine is much fast and the printer there is much better as well :D )

oh, Major, it is so funny that you interpret my name as the Emergency Room ... lol ... it is a cool name though, ambulance is that fast, not sure if I can chase it at all. But I meant for Erwin Rommel Chaser.... haha.. this could be even harder :)

Sure I will encounter more questions to bother you guys soon!

[ER_Chaser]

#1. Air strikes: I can list up those air strike types by the status menu.... there are different types (say, last night, the scenario had 5: two Ju97 dive bomber, two light anti-tank bombers, 1 Fw190 ground attack) ---- how can I choose which squad of wings to use? Or I cannot choose at all? And further, one of my air strike was cancelled ---- at the time I thought there must be no enemies in the close hexes (so the pilots could not find their targets and simply went back home) --- but no, actually there are still several tanks there ---- exactly the targets I wanted to get rid off (I spotted to tanks first and then asked for air strike ... but later, somehow I could not see them any more.) Then why was the strike cancelled?
#2. Artillery: how to place my shots for the advancing troops --- esp. loaded (they are so pleasantly amazing when hitting trucks, loaded ... lol) ---- usually I layed a screen in front of the possible routes, but out of 6 shots, I could only get 2 (3 105mm) ---- although that is quite some pleasure already (usually means at least 3 full platoons with their transportation.) ---- but can I get more greedy? Would some master here show me a better way to grab that first stroke? I am sure there must be!
#3. Distance of artillery: I figure it is good to put them as close as possible --- but if too close they could get pissed off --- so how do you guys put them? What is the range of "comfort"? (I am anxious to put them into such a close range that they could harm the armors --- but never succeeded.)
#4. Major, you mentioned that spreadsheet, ... please pardon my low recon ability, I did not find it ;D .... Would you mind send it to me through email? Thanks a lot! Please use the following email address:
xliu@us.mizuho-cb.com


Again, thank you for your time,

[Major Major]

1) you can only strike targets that you can see. as such, call in air only at the end of your turn. before 'painting' your target, go to 'v' mode and confirm you can see the target. if you can't, you either won't be able to call in the assault or if you can, it may be cancled because you're pilot can't see the target. i never worry about the type of air i call in. sometimes your strikes are simply delayed (due to bad weather or something). if your enemy has a AA gun, it can 'kill' your air assualt. sometimes your target moves and your airmen will adjust or other times they'll hit the wrong target. nothing's perfect!

2/3) artillary - same as air: call it in last. make sure you can see the target first. you can paint targets you can't see, but you're rounds will probably stray, even on friendlies. you don't want to get close to targets, you must hit their hex to induce damage. like all attacks, artillary has two effects, one for soft and one for hard targets (see manuel). it is rarely effective on hard targets like tanks (eg, attacks with a 1 vs defence of 8). it is also minimually effective on targets in pillboxes and bunkers. you must all factor concelment factors etc.

4) xls on its way!

[John Paul]

I think air units assigned to strikes are randomenly chosen from the available list.I still don`t understand how they choose their targets sometimes.I really believe the pilots smoke something before taking off.Can't tell you how many times i've called in an airstrike on a armored target or artillery posisition,where the target never moves,and i can almost hear the conversation between the pilot and the spotter.
Spotter:Okay your right on target,theres those guns thats been mauling us the last couple turns.
Pilot:Rodger that i got visual...Oh my god!
Spotter:What is it?
Pilot:I just spotted some empty trucks.Am changing mission.
Spotter:Changing mission!what about those 152's that have been ripping us a new one?
Pilot:My god man,These are empty trucks!who knows what kind of havoc they can cause!That battery of guns is nothing compared to the awesome combat potential of empty transports.
Repeat as many times as needed.:D

[ER_Chaser]

Originally posted by John Paul
I think air units assigned to strikes are randomenly chosen from the available list.I still don`t understand how they choose their targets sometimes.I really believe the pilots smoke something before taking off.Can't tell you how many times i've called in an airstrike on a armored target or artillery posisition,where the target never moves,and i can almost hear the conversation between the pilot and the spotter.
Spotter:Okay your right on target,theres those guns thats been mauling us the last couple turns.
Pilot:Rodger that i got visual...Oh my god!
Spotter:What is it?
Pilot:I just spotted some empty trucks.Am changing mission.
Spotter:Changing mission!what about those 152's that have been ripping us a new one?
Pilot:My god man,These are empty trucks!who knows what kind of havoc they can cause!That battery of guns is nothing compared to the awesome combat potential of empty transports.
Repeat as many times as needed.:D

So we'd better rely on our own army stuff... tanks, guns... not those aviation jerks. ---- I guess talonsoft needs to make some games for airforce as well, otherwise, sooner or later they may get a dizzy bomb ;D

hey John, you are in Pittsburgh! ... I spent 5 years at CMU ---- you are in Pitt or CMU?

Major: I got the file, many thx :)

[John Paul]

Neither actually.Was born and raised here.Actually i'm right outside town in the steel valley area.Thats about maybe a ten minute drive from Oakland,minus traffic.so how did you enjoy your stay in our little backwater?

[ER_Chaser]

I spent my 5 years stay in CMU ... :D
I was playing a lot of games (maybe too many ... did not learn much knowledge as I should have :P ) --- one of the major time consumer was netrek I played in those days... still miss it very much. I like Pittsburgh, very much, quiet, cleaner than NYC and nice fall ---- but I had to work here, too few chances in Pitt.
BTW, Dan Neely (in ACOW group) is also from Pitt ---- haha... seems Steelers' fans also wargame!

BTW, the file that Major sent me was simply amazing... the amount of work, the great details and wide range it covered... oh.. I just send a few minutes to read it... it is amazing!

[John Paul]

Its been my experience,that no matter where you go,that you`re bound to bump into a Yinzer sooner or later.I like it here too,couldn`t imagine living anywhere else.Though as you said about the job market its bad.If you ever install yor eastfront CD and want a game just let me know.I'd offer to play west front but as i said the darn CD started acting all funny everytime i ran it.

[ER_Chaser]

Once I get used to the system and get my EF up, I will let you know.

Another question (endless, huh? lol): I just find that other than PEBM, there are also "real time" play mode ---- how is that? What do the people here use most? And what kind of speed of network is required for "real time" play? Sometimes my modem only get 28k connection from the damn AOL (there are 56k ports, but I do not know why it always assigns me to some 28 or 36k ports.).

[Twoblade]

That's the direct IP connect play. It's loads of fun. :) The thing about that is that you have to have time to sit down and play and then wait for your opponent to finish his turn and all that. The fun is that you can taunt your opponent in real time. :D (There is a in-game dialogue window) The network speed - may not be a probem since the game is turn based. There may be a slight lag but it's not actually as noticeable as you would in one of those RTS games.

[ER_Chaser]

Since I am just starting playing Afrikakorps DCG, all the missions so far are pretty small (only a few companies + my own battalion) --- usually it took me about 2-3 hours to finish one scenario ---- but I guess playing vs. ppl the time will at least double since the PO hardly use any time at all. Then that is almost a whole Saturday for such a small battle. And again, I did not get a feeling by reading the rules for the games listed in the HQ ---- it only seems playing vs. human will totally differ from playing PO (as PO in DCG seems to have infinite resources and as well as infinite stupidity. :P ).

[John Paul]

I think that when you play a DCG that both sides are on a comparable scale thus your battalion is faced by a battalion.It just seems like your always outnumbered always outgunned,as the PO has a tendency to throw all its stuff into narrow areas.I know how you feel though,it always seems like my guys are facing the whole russian army when i play.I guess how long the game takes depends on the scale,for me at least the setup part in DCG's take awhile.Try playing a corp size Dcg then the amount of time spent on the smaller ones won't be so bad,just be prepared to collect social-security by the time you finish the game:D .BTW the offer of a game i was throwing out was for future reference,and once you do play EF that`ll take a little while to learn as it has a different "feel" to it than WF does.One plus that EF has is the ingame music,after listening to some of those panzer marches you`ll want to run out and join the werhmacht.

[ER_Chaser]

That would be amazing to me. Hmm.. not really, I can hardly agree the PO has the same scale as my forces.
For example the battle I just fought last night, my command has one battalion of armors (5x5 Pz IIIH, 4x4 PzIVD, 3x5PzIIF, HQ+myself), one company of arty(3x4 105mm+trucks+HQ), two battalions of motorzied infantries(2x3x6mot. inf +trucks +2xHQ), 1 anti-tank company (3x4 37mm +trucks+HQ), 1 mot. machinegun(3x4 machinegun+1x4 81mm mortar+trucks+HQ) and finally div. HQ. That is it. Since I was using extreme FOW setting, I could not see PO's OOB, but from my own recons, and the "strength" list of destroyed PO equipments, the PO had far stronger force:
Destroyed: (not exactly, roughly in my memory)
6 tanks (A9, A10..) --- I did not attack his tanks much, because there were better targets (see below)
20 anti-tank trucks
60 mot. inf + trucks (all killed when loaded)
30 halftracks
17 25pdr
some small numbers of armored cars and mortar teams.
By the end of the scenario, the forces I observed (there are still quite some sounds I could only hear when PO made its last move, but let us neglect that.)
4 stacks of tanks(new), each with 4 plattoons, assume they are all with 3 tanks in each, that is 4x4x3=48 tanks (add the 6 destroyed, which makes a 54 tanks, almost equal the tank force I had: 56 tanks)
5 25pdr platoons(new) on sight (assume each with 4) that is 5x4=20, plus the 17 destroyed totalled at 37 (3 times more than the 12 105mm I had)
4 new mot. inf. on sight, that 4x6 inf. +60 KIA = 86 mot. inf., also more than doubled my inf's(36 mot. inf.)
5 untouched AT trucks group (5x6? 5x5?) let us assume it is 5x5=25 plus the 20 destroyed, that will make 45 AT guns, as I do not have any AT trucks, I also consider they are more vulnerable than the 37mm's, so let us count my each 37mm's as 2 AT trucks, then, I only had 24 equivalents, a little more than half its strength.
6 untouched groups of armored cars, 6x6=36 strong, as I do not have anything in this category.
2 mortar teams, twice as mine.
And finally as PO did not show any machinegun teams, I guess I could use my 12 machineguns to equal its 36 armored cars.
I do not know about the hidden PO strengths, but from the sound, it at least included a couple armored groups, and a dozen mot. groups.

So I truly think the PO had a great numerical advantage. And BTW, the casualty I had was merely 2 PzIIF, 3 mot. inf., and 4 trucks. That shows the same amount of stupidity that PO possesses meanwhile. :D

As for the ppl games, huh nah yet for me, not yet. I knew my understanding of this game is still at chicken level, I do not want to rush my ass to get kicked :D .... when I feel I grasp something real in this game, I'd call for battles with you veterans. (otherwise, it won't be too much fun for you guys either, right? :) )

[John Paul]

Wow looks like you're taking on an entire Regiment.I stand corrected.Though apparently looking at what you put down as your losses against this horde,the PO could throw a division against you,and not not be able to stop you.

[ER_Chaser]

short from catching any objectives in that one. But since the killing awards a lot ... 400+ VPs ... I figure I'd better kill rather than capture. :D

[Twoblade]

It's true, sometimes the objectives are nothing more than distractions.:cool:

[ER_Chaser]

As for playing against PO, as I mentioned before, the character of PO defined the overall strategy to deal with it: kill for VP rather than capture objectives. The objectives merely served as coordinates of the possible existence of enemy forces in this case (of course, if there is nothing guarding it, I'd be glad to take the free lunch as well.)
But if playing vs. ppl, things will be totally different. Since ppls do not have either of the two identities that PO possesses at all: ppl will have a limited # of troops (hopefully as your own?), ppl will behave smartly (hopefully as your own or even better). The first probably make the destruction of units not enough for VPs(since there ain't that many at all.), the second will make that destruction nearly impossible. Then capturing and holding or controlling the objectives will be crucial and those VP sites will not be merely names, instead, it will probably become the center of conflicts. As I have no experience at all, my guess can be totally absurd though. Your veteran input will be of great value here, generals!
And the other very important thing (which I felt so far, ... only so far, since I did not play PO much either.) is that PO almost never attacks (I mean any overall offensives, it seems it knows only one thing to do, cluster with the objs and wait to be shot at.), I hardly learned anything about how to defend. Which, from my attack to the PO's line, I felt very difficult and different from offense. Yet, I did not have any chance to look into it by playing with PO so far. Maybe there are other scenarios, hopefully later, that PO will assume offensive positions? Frankly speaking, I just felt defense in this game will actually be much harder than offense. Again, a guess with no experience. Please correct me, help me to learn :)

Thank you.

[John Paul]

The PO doesn't act aggressivly during defensive missions,though sometimes when you capture objectives it will mount what seems like disjointed counter attacks.When you get your first defensive missions the PO will attack,very rarely it will even spread out its attacks.My personal opinion is the PO in DCG games ranges from
Average to downright stupid.In the stand alone scenarios it does seem to use its forces better,but i guess it depends on what their set too.If you try to create a scenario you will see that the PO can be set to differing levels of intelligence.I think thats the word i wanted to use.

[ER_Chaser]

But now that the brits starts to bomb me, sometimes it can wipe out a whole panzer platoon by one air strike.... so what is the best way to deal with air strike? only luck?

[John Paul]

Do you have any AA units?If not you just gotta suck it up.If you do have AA units look at their ranges and try to keep them in posistions where they can cover your troops or at the very least your major assests.They will fire on any plane that comes within their range so AA with overlapping fields of fire are almost certain to put a major hurting on any airstrikes that come within their range.You should be able to highlight your AA units in the one menu,can't think of the name right now.

[ER_Chaser]

So far, I do not have any AA guns yet. (I'd like to have some HAWKs or Patriots :D) That will be nice :)

Now I got a few missions with very low visibilities, only 3, ... it seems in this case, the superiority of my tanks' long range is totally lost and battle now became infantry dominating. I mainly invested my tanks for defensive line of my arties (fortunately I got a whole lot of them this time, probably a benefit from the promotion :D) and then simply used my arties to carpet bomb every inch of enemy objectives blindly. (seems like the PO is doing the same thing, but the only difficulty it has particularly is that PO does not know where my troops are.) and then advance my foot soldiers step by step, slow and hopefully safe. Any better ideas?

(Blades become eagle now ... hehe)

[John Paul]

Missions with low visibility are tough,some missions have almost no visibility.Ah so you have happened upon the PO's habit of blowing every hex on the board to heck.I've found when it does this things can get pretty dangerous(the PO is suprisingly accurate with unspotted fire.)as you never know just where the shells will fall.Your better off not wasting your shots on targets you can't see,as you may be left without artillery support when you need it.Also if you have units in the vicinity the shots may drift onto them.So you have no AA,thats rough,just try to tough it out.The game becomes progressivlly(i know i can't spell,in my defence i had a public school edumacation.)harder the farther in you go,at least it seems so.As for tactics,try to use your armor to move ahead(don't know what kind of tank force your facing)and move carefully where you feel the enemy is located,then if they get shot at move your supporting units up and have it out.Don't know what else to say as the decreased visibility evens outs the odds all across the board.Your infantry and machine gunners better range is negated,as well as your armor,so it probably is just going to be a slugfest.

[ER_Chaser]

I spent the whole night to finish that damn 3-visibility battle ---- John, if you had another thread, about which mission you hate most, I would definitely put mission with low vis. on it (by far... did not meet the river crossing stuff yet ..) --- oh, maybe then river crossing with low vis. ... lol... hell + hell = ?

[John Paul]

Yeah thats it...a thread about mission types...thats the ticket.
So how did the mission go?

[John Paul]

Doesn't two negatives equal a positive? in that case wouldn't it equal pure bliss.:rolleyes: I'd look forward to such a mission,just think of the stress release pointing,and swearing at the screen would bring.;)

[ER_Chaser]

Originally posted by John Paul
Yeah thats it...a thread about mission types...thats the ticket.
So how did the mission go?

for me though. The mission was called "delay action", but basically I did not see any difference from "meeting engagement" (Is there any at all?). I had a massive force of 1 panzer regiment(hordes of tanks), 5 arty companies(105, 150 and 150 inf.), 1 recon company, 5 inf. companies, 1 machine gun company, 2 AT companies and most importantly, my ammo level is 94, which means I can forget about my HQ's and fire at will, never worry about running out of ammo. Visibility was 3, land was dry. High heat. But with such a force, I did not inflict much damage to the enemy at all, only got a few AA guns, infantries, machine gunners, AT trucks and a couple of HQs. Did not catch any of PO's guns or tanks( I did not even see a single tank throughout this 17 turn mission.) The PO had quite some arties, but apparently its ammo level is much lower --- so along time, its bombard density is much lower than mine. BTW, the bombard, even at close range on infantries was mostly waste, "unaffect" in 90% cases (which is quite a surprise to me, the soft attack value is usually as high as 18 or 20, as I really moved my guns very close to their units.), I do not know why though. Most of the shootings, either from me or PO, were just waste as well. (that is why it was so boring, people keep shooting into the air for fun?) But I was so bored and run my recon armored cars (they are nice things.. but wasted by me though) all around the map, and sometimes run into AT trucks or assaulted infantries(because I did not even take a look at the stack because I assaulted.. lol), they were all wiped out. The enemy loss in the end is about twice as mine --- mainly because it lost some HQ's --- but if compare to other missions I played, this is terrible. My own force is much stronger than other missions, yet, my loss is much bigger, and I only inflicted minimum damage to the PO. (as comparison, for example, the one before this, I lost only 3(3VP) inf. and 2 trucks, totally 11VP loss, but I gained 700 VP by destroying almost everything PO puts insight of me, that was with visibility 20, when the german long range armor fully extended their superiority.)

[John Paul]

Infantry in the open are pretty good at withstanding artillery fire in this game.Whereas in real life any unit caught out in the open would have been decimated.Still this is no reason to become complacent when it comes to artillery barrages.The visibility probablely affected the combat results.Also if you move then fire you don't attack with your full strength.You said mission was delaying action?were you attacker or defender?Its been awhile since i played that mission type,so i'm foggy on what it entails(i've been playing ACOW alot lately).

[ER_Chaser]

Well, in the mission summary, it said something like, "the british is concentrating a major offensive toward your line. Take your company and catch their front position to gain more time for our defense." So strategically (though I do not see it has any effect on game play so far), Axis is supposedly defending. But in the battle, all objectives were British held. I was to attack and nevertheless how boring it was, I capture all except two last objectives, end up with 880 VPs.

hahah.. you are playing ACOW a lot, cool! Did you get CS first and played it first? And then now switch to ACOW to get some new taste?

hehe, if so, I am exactly the mirror image of you. I played ACOW for a while and need some fresh air. CS now cost me over 3/4 of my nights --- though I still have some ACOW games (with ladder buddies here) going on.

It is really a fun combo of playing ACOW and CS. Since sometimes, in ACOW, esp. when your attack failed somewhere, or did a miracle somewhere, you would wish "ah.. if only I could be on the battlefield to command that fight" ... and surely here it is, just open CS, you fight. hehe.. maybe later, when that tank platoon shoots the enemy tank, I'd go for Combat mission for more. Or half life for those engineers. And when you were wondering what your "outstanding" performance will influence Rommel's plan in the deserts, go back to Tobruk or Crusader! ...

Talonsoft, go!
(BTW, the new "medival total war" certainly has some unique achievements to further integrate this with even RTS together. ... again, just not enough ... SLEEP ... YARN.. )

:ar15:

[John Paul]

ACOW was the first computer wargame i bought.CS i bought because i liked the tactical scale of the game.I tend to switch back and forth between the two.I found CS to be a much simpler game to understand,i think there are aspects of ACOW that i will never get.The person who can completely understand every aspect of that game and its nuances needs to be put into the same club as Einstein.Delaying action can be compared to a spoiling attack then,your mission was to disrupt the enemy before they could mass for attack.Though with the random nature of DCG maps and missions the next mission rarely makes sense as to the result of the previous mission.

[dale]

I bought Europe in Flames (second hand from Half.com for 13 1/2 bucks!). I found East Front's manual but no West Front!

Any ideas? Know where I can get it?:(

[ER_Chaser]

hmm... I was surprised to see this threat being brought up ... it was like a year ago or something :D ...

Dale, I remember some1 (wolf?) posted a link for me to print out the manual online. Or probably you can search the talonsoft website? Sorry I do not remember the exact site any more, but it was for WF.