Vietnam

[Bdr.Mallette]

Hey,
how's it going out there?

Quick question.

Is anybody playing the Vietnam 1965-75 scenario, and if so, How's it going?
Since my last update, 159 ppl have downloaded it and I was wonderin' about feedback.

if any comments, please reply.

thx

[Secadegas]

I DL it 157 times :confused: ... just to make you feel happy... :hush:

[Bdr.Mallette]

LOL secadegas!
You very funny man!

I've changed it since we played.

Anybody else?!!! lol

[CarlG2]

Is anybody playing the Vietnam 1965-75 scenario, and if so, How's it going?

if any comments, please reply.


Thanks for resurrecting this scenario from the depths of TOAW2! I had been a playtester for it when Jeff Riddolls was doing the early development back in 2000 (before v1.0 was ever released...not sure if this is the same effort he was working on or not). I no longer have TOAW2, though, and so couldn't play it once I picked up ACOW. I appreciate you converting this to ACOW.

I am curious as to why the US units have such terrible proficiency ratings in this version. Even top of the line US brigades are at 50% (with many at 45% or even 33%). The NVA units mostly seem to be at 66% proficiency.

I can understand many of the ARVN units having very low proficiency, but not sure about the US units.

I think I read in a different post how you were using unit proficiency (instead of formation or force proficiency) to try to simulate difficulties that the US faced fighting in Vietnam.

Just curious as to the rationale used here, as the ACOW help files indicate that US units in this era should have force proficiency of around 75, formation proficiency of around 80, and unit proficienices of around 70 (higher for more elite units, lower for units that historically had "issues".)

North Vietnam units, in contrast, should have force proficiency of around 55, formation proficiency around 70, and unit proficiency around 70 (same issue, higher for some, lower for others.)

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!

Good gaming,
Carl G.

[Bdr.Mallette]

hey.

Actually, did this from scratch.

But I did it in TOAW2 before I found out everybody plays CoW.
Then i had to buy that one. Only been playing for about a year.

Unit proficiencies and stuff like that. The American army was fairly green, you'd have to say. I was thinking that due to the 1 year of duty needed to serve, your veteran troops wouldn't really stick around, sooo......

The NVA/NLF forces are at a low profiency level too, so the ratio is pretty much the same.

I don't know man. I created it before I had even played CoW or TOAW2.
I played the Korea demo then thought that it would be a great way to design the board game. Always wanted to play it against somebody.
So due to this, i knew about 5% of what I really needed tto know. I got lucky with a lot of results achieved.

[CarlG2]

hey.

Actually, did this from scratch.

But I did it in TOAW2 before I found out everybody plays CoW.
Then i had to buy that one. Only been playing for about a year.

Unit proficiencies and stuff like that. The American army was fairly green, you'd have to say. I was thinking that due to the 1 year of duty needed to serve, your veteran troops wouldn't really stick around, sooo......

The NVA/NLF forces are at a low profiency level too, so the ratio is pretty much the same.



Wow! You sure did one heck of a job designing such a massive scenario!

Do you still have TOAW2 by any chance? I'd like to convert to ACOW the old Vietnam 1965-1975 scenario that I was speaking of in my previous post. To do that, I guess I need to have the scenario saved in TOAW2 (updated to the latest version). If you were able to convert your scenario from TOAW2, then I am guessing you know how to do it! :)

I'd like to do some comparisons between your scenario and the one that Jeff R. was working on. He had some pretty neat events (you've done a great job, too) and I'd like to review what he was doing with unit proficiency stuff, etc.

Both of you have put an immense amount of time and effort into a monster Vietnam scenario... Supreme job! I like how you handled the exclusion zones, as well. Very innovative use of the game engine.

Anyway, if you'd be interested in or able to convert the scenario I have, please let me know. I can e-mail you the scenario files, if you'd like.

[Bdr.Mallette]

So you want me to convert the TOAW2 file to a CoW file???

Or,

do you want me to convert the toaw2 file to the latest version of toaw2?

Either event, you won't be able to open it.
It will not be compatible with that system.
Also, I do believe they still have the patches here, for download.

I'll send ya my 'Original TOAW2 file of Vietnam 1965-75' if ya want to take a look.

[Bdr.Mallette]

hey,

That file is a CoW file, not a Toaw2 file and it is not OPART300.exe either.

I cannot convert back to TOAW2.
Defintion of progress= forward. not backwards.

I looked at the scenario.
I like mine better. lol
way better.
Lota work.

[CarlG2]

So you want me to convert the TOAW2 file to a CoW file???

Or,

do you want me to convert the toaw2 file to the latest version of toaw2?

Either event, you won't be able to open it.
It will not be compatible with that system.
Also, I do believe they still have the patches here, for download.

I'll send ya my 'Original TOAW2 file of Vietnam 1965-75' if ya want to take a look.

I may be unclear about what I need to do to take a TOAW2 scenario and be able to open it in ACOW. I thought that what needed to be done was for someone to open the TOAW2 scenario in the TOAW2 scenario editor and save it with the latest version of TOAW2.

At that point, it should be accessable from ACOW, right?

I don't have TOAW2 anymore, so the old Vietnam: 1965-1975 scenario that I have (the one Jeff Riddolls developed back in 1999/2000), I cannot access... I'm pretty sure it was created with a pre-1.04 version of TOAW2. I never got a copy from him that was made with TOAW2 1.04 (if he ever did one.)

Does that make sense??? :)

Good gaming,
Carl G.

[CarlG2]

hey,

That file is a CoW file, not a Toaw2 file and it is not OPART300.exe either.

I cannot convert back to TOAW2.
Defintion of progress= forward. not backwards.

I looked at the scenario.
I like mine better. lol
way better.
Lota work.

Howdy,

Are you referring to the file I e-mailed to you, or your Vietnam 1965-1975 scenario???

I may not have been too clear in my earlier post...I don't need a TOAW2 conversion, I'm just looking to get a TOAW2 scenario accessible from ACOW. That is possible somehow, right??? Once I can access the scenario from ACOW, I can tweak it as necessary to take advantage of new features in ACOW from TOAW2.

The file I e-mailed to you (Jeff Riddolls Vietnam scenario) isn't an ACOW scenario...I cannot open it with ACOW, but you can??? I'm real confused now... :o

Good gaming, and thanks for engaging me,
Carl G.

[CarlG2]

Okay...I think I figured this out...

The file I sent to you was already saved in TOAW2 1.04, it seems. I couldn't open it in the editor, and I had never tried to play it since I got ACOW.

This is what I think is going on:

1. TOAW2 scenario saved with TOAW2 1.04 cannot be opened in the ACOW editor until the game engine has "updated" it to ACOW format. This "update" does not occur until you start a new game with the scenario file.

2. Maybe I'm out to lunch on this, and my problems were just related to not using the correct ACOW (Opart300, etc.) to edit the scenario...

So...no worries on converting the file to ACOW format, as I believe that has now been done when I started a new game with the file.

My main interest in looking at his old file is that he spent a good amount of time researching proficiency values for the various units and formations, and I am going to play around with your scenario to change unit proficiencies, formation proficiences, and force proficiencies, and see how that effects gameplay. I'm also going to run through the event lists in both scenarios, and try to merge the best of both. No offense intended on that, I just like to tinker. It really is too bad that we are limited to 500 events...I know this engine was created when computers were oh-so-much slower, but machines today don't even blink an eye at this game.

I really appreciate your help today, and also want to thank you for creating the scenario that you did. I know it was a HUGE amount of work, as I have done some ad hoc scenario stuff with the editor, and extrapolating out my experiences to something of the size of what you put together... :surprise:

Good gaming,
Carl G.

[Panzerpelle]

Okay...I think I figured this out...

The file I sent to you was already saved in TOAW2 1.04, it seems. I couldn't open it in the editor, and I had never tried to play it since I got ACOW.

This is what I think is going on:

1. TOAW2 scenario saved with TOAW2 1.04 cannot be opened in the ACOW editor until the game engine has "updated" it to ACOW format. This "update" does not occur until you start a new game with the scenario file.

2. Maybe I'm out to lunch on this, and my problems were just related to not using the correct ACOW (Opart300, etc.) to edit the scenario...

So...no worries on converting the file to ACOW format, as I believe that has now been done when I started a new game with the file.

My main interest in looking at his old file is that he spent a good amount of time researching proficiency values for the various units and formations, and I am going to play around with your scenario to change unit proficiencies, formation proficiences, and force proficiencies, and see how that effects gameplay. I'm also going to run through the event lists in both scenarios, and try to merge the best of both. No offense intended on that, I just like to tinker. It really is too bad that we are limited to 500 events...I know this engine was created when computers were oh-so-much slower, but machines today don't even blink an eye at this game.

I really appreciate your help today, and also want to thank you for creating the scenario that you did. I know it was a HUGE amount of work, as I have done some ad hoc scenario stuff with the editor, and extrapolating out my experiences to something of the size of what you put together... :surprise:

Good gaming,
Carl G.
You should also take alook at Curt Chambers Campaign for Vietnam...See http://www.tdg.nu/articles/AARs/CSV%20ARR.htm to read an AAR of the latest playtest. Its also a very intersting scenario of the Vietnam war.

[Bdr.Mallette]

Dude,

just open it CoW, not OPART300.

It is fine if ya just use the small map .exe.

You asked if I had used this scenario to create mine. Okay, the map of the country looks similar, but why wouldn't it.
I can't believe that the number of turns is the same though, thats BS luck or sumones playing with my head.
I belive mine is more true to the board game than actual history.

I really hope yer not insinuating something.

ANYWHO....... I like mine better, way better........lol!

[CarlG2]

Dude,

just open it CoW, not OPART300.

It is fine if ya just use the small map .exe.

You asked if I had used this scenario to create mine. Okay, the map of the country looks similar, but why wouldn't it.
I can't believe that the number of turns is the same though, thats BS luck or sumones playing with my head.
I belive mine is more true to the board game than actual history.

I really hope yer not insinuating something.

ANYWHO....... I like mine better, way better........lol!

Howdy,

Yes, I figured out what I was doing wrong with getting Jeff's TOAW2 Vietnam scenario opened in ACOW. I really thought it was an OPART300-sized scenario so never tried the editor with the small map .exe.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought you had ripped off someone else's work... When I first saw your scenario listed, I thought that maybe it was an extension of what Jeff was doing (not a rip-off, but a continuation of unfinished work since Jeff doesn't seem to do scenario design anymore), but after going through it I clearly see that it is an original effort. :)

Anyway, I'll give your scenario a try as it looks very promising. Thanks for doing the huge amount of work it must have been to build this monster-scenario!

Jeff's scenario was never completely finished, and would need a lot of updating to get it to take advantage of all the possible enhancements from ACOW. As such, it looks like your scenario is the only game in town for a monster 500+ turn recreation of the Vietnam War. The other two that I know of (Brian Topp's excellent version, and the intriguing new one I read about on TDG from Curt Chambers) use a turn/date ratio convention to simulate the war in a much smaller number of turns (both a 500+ simulation and a @100 turn simulation have their advantages depending on what you're looking to play!)

Good gaming,
Carl G.

[CarlG2]

You should also take alook at Curt Chambers Campaign for Vietnam...See http://www.tdg.nu/articles/AARs/CSV%20ARR.htm to read an AAR of the latest playtest. Its also a very intersting scenario of the Vietnam war.

Thanks for the pointer. I remember reading about Curt's effort back in 2002, but at that point it was a long way from release and I forgot about it...

It looks like he may be releasing it for the general public soon, though, which I'm really excited about.

From the AAR and forum, it looks like he simlulates the war similar to what Brian Topp did with his American in Vietnam scenario. What I really like about Curt's effort is that he has built in a system to determine when US withdrawal will occur that is not strictly turn-based like in Brian's scenario.

I had some grand plans a year or so ago to modify Brian's scenario to add such a system, but it sounds like Curt has built a scenario that already does that (before anyone thinks I just said that Curt just ripped off Brian's scenario and modded it...step back, breathe, and note that I know that both of them came up with their own original scenarios...each of them took their own approach in how to model US withdrawal, which is what I'm talking about.)

Anyway, I hope that Curt releases his scenario soon as I'm anxious to play it!

Good gaming,
Carl G.

[Bdr.Mallette]

Howdy,

Yes, I figured out what I was doing wrong with getting Jeff's TOAW2 Vietnam scenario opened in ACOW. I really thought it was an OPART300-sized scenario so never tried the editor with the small map .exe.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I thought you had ripped off someone else's work... When I first saw your scenario listed, I thought that maybe it was an extension of what Jeff was doing (not a rip-off, but a continuation of unfinished work since Jeff doesn't seem to do scenario design anymore), but after going through it I clearly see that it is an original effort. :)

Anyway, I'll give your scenario a try as it looks very promising. Thanks for doing the huge amount of work it must have been to build this monster-scenario!

Jeff's scenario was never completely finished, and would need a lot of updating to get it to take advantage of all the possible enhancements from ACOW. As such, it looks like your scenario is the only game in town for a monster 500+ turn recreation of the Vietnam War. The other two that I know of (Brian Topp's excellent version, and the intriguing new one I read about on TDG from Curt Chambers) use a turn/date ratio convention to simulate the war in a much smaller number of turns (both a 500+ simulation and a @100 turn simulation have their advantages depending on what you're looking to play!)

Good gaming,
Carl G.

Thanks man,

I wasn't implying directly in that direction, but it just seemed a wee bit like it.
yah, it was a lot of work, but I could've done more if there were more events. I wanted to add the SVN political problems not just Coup events and effects. I think there are about 50 events I could free up, just not sure where they are and what events would be affected by change. It was built on a continual basis. A lot of small patches.
I would change things as I thought of them. I still hadn't played much at all while doing it. I was too impatient to get the game finished. But it seems to be intact and in good working condition. Maybe 1 or 2 very small bugs, to do with units, but never got far enough in a game to find any.

I really appreciate the comments as I am sure any other designers would as well after finishing one. :)

[Ike]

Im playing your Vietnam scenario now, Ive have not completed it yet though. First time playing your scenario actually. To me it is going good. I like it. Ike in Vietnam.

[Alexander Seil]

So, where it's uploaded at?

[Bdr.Mallette]

in the scenario archive.

http://www.warfarehq.com/archives/showthread.php?t=342

There are 2 actually.
The full blown war, or a small hypothetical scenario around Bien Dien, near Laos.

[larryfulkerson]

I sent an email to Curt asking for a copy of his Campaign for South Vietnam and received it about an hour later. His address is: circ@sprynet.com tell him I sent you.

[Bdr.Mallette]

hey,

thx.
I e-mailed him, no reply.
Of course my e-mail address looks like a Porn-sie address! lol
Everyone i tell it to looks at me a little weird.
I have to explain, 'This girl in high school who I really liked called me that, has nothing to do with hooters'

skhooter = scooter not SK - hooter

lol!

Could you post it here maybe, for a couple o days or so, till i download it at home?

Check out the new Vietnam 65 in file archives.

bdr.mallette

[larryfulkerson]

it's really really inovative and playable muchly. If anybody wants it just gimme an email at larryfulkerson2002@yahoo.com and I'll send that bad boy your way. BTW, anybody want to PBM? I'm open for a game with somebody. Either side.

[Bdr.Mallette]

okay,
just checking our Curt Chambers' 'Campaign for South Vietnam',

uhmmmm, holy Briefing Batman.

I feel so inadequate in my Briefing.
I gues I have Briefing envy!!!!

Looks like a cool scenario so far.
geeeeez, right when you think you have put together a very playable, enjoyable and intelligent scenario, you see somebody else's.

Chit!
Haven't played it yet though, will determine overall quality on that basis but it looks pretty in-depth.
Helluva a lot of planning and editor manipulation for sure, I'm guessing. Will check it out in ODD.

Thanks for the scenario. like to compare and see diffeent ways of doing things.

L8R

:smoke:

(PS-- I am still very proud of Vietnam 1965 1.2)

[Bdr.Mallette]

Finished Briefing.
Wow, he must write games all the time.

Most of the Wars' Aspects have been represented in this scenario including the Political part of it.
Mine did not go in depth regarding Politics.
I kinda took that out of my original scenario. I couldn't model properly, or as well as Curt did. Whew! I could see lots of hair pulling for him. Is he bald?

I kind of still prefer Vietnam 1965 1.2.
Why?
Because! lol

[Boonierat]

Can you send it to me Bdr? I'd like to have a look at the OOB ;)

[Bdr.Mallette]

Hey,

I posted in the file archives for everybody as well as future use for PC's that crash.(touch wood)

:smoke:

[craine]

it's really really inovative and playable muchly. If anybody wants it just gimme an email at larryfulkerson2002@yahoo.com and I'll send that bad boy your way. BTW, anybody want to PBM? I'm open for a game with somebody. Either side.
Sure, my email is runneratatlantic.net

[Raindem]

Thanks for the kind words on my scenario. I had lots of help on it. I don't think I'd want to tackle anything that complex again.

The scenario is in the final phases of testing and should be released before long over at TDG. After that, I'll upload the final version to all the popular sites. Until then, please use restraint in distributing it since there's one or two minor tweaks left.

Curt

[Bdr.Mallette]

Hey,

no prob!


lol
:devious:



just kidding,

still testing my smaller, ahem, less in-depth scenario....lol.

Is a designer ever satisfied though? Knowing what he knows when completed, or on-going completion status?
must be tough plugging away at it that long. Inch at a time?

:salute: