Trolling for DnO opponent...

[Ryan88]

I'm a major TOAW fan and a long-time East Front armchair historian. I have always admired DnO, I was able to play the first 10 turns or so of version 3.4 as the Soviets against Jamiam before the bugs in that version were discovered. I would love to take it on again now that a more refined version is available, but check the fine print below...

I'm basically a military graduate student so my time is somewhat limited, I can't really promise more than 1-2 turns a week and perhaps even less than that at times. Also, my TOAW skills are only moderate at best, I have a solid grasp on strategy and history but I'm still mastering the reality of the finer TOAW mechanics.

I'd strongly prefer to play someone around my own skill level if at all possible. I would be willing to try blitzing with the Germans, though if someone is anxious to play as the Germans themselves I wouldn't mind at all taking the Soviets again. I like playing competitively and will certainly play to win but I also really enjoy recreating history and getting to see it in a new light, so I can be relied on as a fair and historical player, for better or worse.

So, fingers crossed; if anyone out there is interested in a relaxed pace game of DnO 3.6 against a moderate opponent, let me know... also, I'd be curious to hear what the thoughts are on the balance of 3.6, now that it has been a while since the pestilence bug was removed and replacement values had to be revised.

[JAMiAM]

Welcome back to active duty, Ryan! Good to see you again.

Somebody give this guy some game!

[Kraut]

So, fingers crossed; if anyone out there is interested in a relaxed pace game of DnO 3.6 against a moderate opponent, let me know... also, I'd be curious to hear what the thoughts are on the balance of 3.6, now that it has been a while since the pestilence bug was removed and replacement values had to be revised.

The more I play DNO the more I think it's perfectly balanced... IF the axis player does everything right! There are so many things that can go wrong for the axis that it's really hard to keep the Blitzkrieg moving but once you figured that out (most important: SPEED) the axis will be able to push even a good soviet player back to the historical lines.

[Dicke Bertha]

Hehe Kraut, bad odds for the Krauts. :D Desto glücklicher bin ich dies zu hören, als Russe gegen Karri...

[shadow]

Hi, I would like to play a game. I can probably do about 2 turns a week myself. RSVP if you want to...you can play Germans

[Stauffenberg]

Ryan,

With a strong interest in history you sound like the ideal candidate for playtesting. Would you consider playing the designer himself? If so, I have a new version that would take a few days to review. This version addresses one issue only: Soviet aircraft ranges. In 3.6 the unit make-up has an historical spread of plane types; 3.7 has all interior and reinforcement units grouped according to range. I haven't played competitively in years and tend to play "historically", basically playtesting to see how well it replicates things.

Daniel

[Ryan88]

Thanks to all for the quick responses.

Shadow,

Sounds great, I will gladly give my try at the Germans. I'll get started on my first turn. I noticed you are new to the forums, and I don't know where you stand with TOAW, but hopefully you are aware of the scale of the scenario and are willing to stick it out. You can send me your email address here through the forums or you can email my address below.

Daniel,

Due to my limited time, how about a compromise? If you'd like you can send me version 3.7 and Shadow and I can play with that and give you feedback. Offhand I'd say that modification would be a large improvement in gameplay for the Soviet player at a minor cost in historical accuracy and a minimal effect on balance. Hopefully you won't incur the wrath of your friend the Russian military history expert...

Thanks for this fantastic scenario once again, the effort that went into it to make it both competitively balanced and an incredibly rich historical experience is outstanding and is much appreciated, as are your other masterpieces.

If you'd like to have it playtested, you can send it to me ASAP and I'll get started.

To both, My email is ryanh@spu.edu.

[Stauffenberg]

Ryan,

That's fine and I'll send it along in a few days. Just need to look it over. Once you start just send me the odd SAV file. I appreciate the remarks.

Daniel

[Ryan88]

Daniel,

Sounds good. Send it over as soon as you can, I'm itching to get started. You can count on my feedback.

[shadow]

Sounds good. Email sent to your address.

[JAMiAM]

I haven't played competitively in years and tend to play "historically", basically playtesting to see how well it replicates things.


<snickers>

Just because he claims to not play competitively, don't think he's a pushover. Daniel's a damned good player - even for a "historically" minded, designer... :p

[Stauffenberg]

James,
I recognised that snicker and had an inkling you would blow my cover as a harmless non-competitive type. We will have to pick up where we left off with you on the ropes in front of Smolensk some day.;)
BTW if you have any last minute urgent items I can slip into this version for Ryan let me know. Looks like I'll finish it tomorrow.

Daniel

[Kraut]

James,
I recognised that snicker and had an inkling you would blow my cover as a harmless non-competitive type. We will have to pick up where we left off with you on the ropes in front of Smolensk some day.;)
BTW if you have any last minute urgent items I can slip into this version for Ryan let me know. Looks like I'll finish it tomorrow.

Daniel

I think there still is the bug that the capture of Tallin wont remove the soviet supply points in Hanko and on the islands, nothing major but you might want to check it out.

Oh, and the on-map text says Moscow is a 10% replacement drop while it will in fact drop by 15%, either the event value or the on-map text is wrong (or it's all intentional and by design :) )

Don't forget to cancel the Axis 50% replacemet drop and instead give them a large on hand HRS pool and the low rifle replacement rate right from the start, pretty please :)

The briefing needs an update, the supply shock between turn 10-14 is missing, also the information that the early release of the Kriegsmarine will also increase the Axis sea tranport was missing.

And here a quote from a previous post:
I'd vote for a change in events, the activation of a factory shouldn't eleminate the german bonus for it's destruction, otherwise the soviet could, even if completely surrounded or if all rail lines are cut, activate the factory and thereby magically safe it, even if the fac unit is later destroyed.

Factories should be heavier, I am pretty sure if you evacuate the entire heavy factories of a region you'll need a lot of rail capacity to do it (tracked tractors are good, they have no combat ability but add a lot of weight), factories should also have a small deley from hitting the TO to activate them until they become ready for transportation (1-3 for smaller facs, 2-5 for huge complex) this seems closer in touch with reality (or were the soviets able to load the entire factories of a region onto rail in just 3,5 days?) and will put the soviet commander under greater strain as to when to activate his factories. As it stands now he can wait almost to the last minute before he releases his facs.

[Stauffenberg]

I think there still is the bug that the capture of Tallin wont remove the soviet supply points in Hanko and on the islands, nothing major but you might want to check it out.

Oh, and the on-map text says Moscow is a 10% replacement drop while it will in fact drop by 15%, either the event value or the on-map text is wrong (or it's all intentional and by design :) )

Don't forget to cancel the Axis 50% replacemet drop and instead give them a large on hand HRS pool and the low rifle replacement rate right from the start, pretty please :)

The briefing needs an update, the supply shock between turn 10-14 is missing, also the information that the early release of the Kriegsmarine will also increase the Axis sea tranport was missing.

And here a quote from a previous post:

Tallinn supply trigger is delayed two turns from capture; I am unable to see anything wrong with the links in the events.

Moscow supply reduction is 15% as it states in the notes--map was a typo.

Other items have already been addressed and we can try out the replacement pool for HRS for the Germans in this version to see how it shakes out.

Re the factories keep in mind that overall Soviet RR Cap for the entire game is lower than what they were capable of, precisely because X% was being used every turn to move industry east. I dont want to add tractors to beef up weight as this will give the unit a nifty and completely unrealistic movement factor of 11 or so; likewise adding more artillery will turn the units into formidable artillery assets. The other thing to keep in mind is that an earlier version had a much more nuanced delay system for factory activation and I had to put in something simpler because I needed the events elsewhere. As I said in the notes, some tough choices were made due to the 500 event limit--sounds like alot, but the event editor lacks some basic finesse combinations that all have to be laboriously chained.

D.

[Kraut]

Tallinn supply trigger is delayed two turns from capture; I am unable to see anything wrong with the links in the events.


I still have the SAL of an older DNO (V3.5) were I captured Tallin on turn 4 (seaborn invasion) but the soviet supply sorces were never removed (last SAL I have is from turn 15)

If you haven't corrected this while upgrading from 3.5 to 3.6 I guess the bug is still there.

[Kraut]

Some event oddities which might be bugs (haven't checked it, might have to start a hotseat to test it)

Event 251 TO: Tula Industry Evac, activates event 252
Event 252: Forms & Order activates Kalinin factory!

most factory TOs activate a wrong factory.

TO Kharkov activates Saratov
TO Saratov activates Dnepr
TO Dnepr activates Donbas I

OK, I will start a hotseat and report back once I see wheter the events are working as intended.

[Stauffenberg]

I caught those awhile ago--an OB change knocked the formation names off in events. Already corrected, but if you spot anything else, let me know.

D.

[Kraut]

Yes, I just did the test, activated Tula (10% fac) and the next turn soviet supply was reduced by 10% but the Kalinin fac was activated.

This will creat some minor problems for all ongoing 3.6 games, in the above example the Tula fac can't be moved (thus will remain as a local supply source and tough defender) and the activated Kalinin fac should't be moved either because that would allow the soviet player to save the fac without paying the replacement drop by first having to activate it. The only good thing is, that the activation of the Tula fac disabled the additional destruction bonus, so that, despite a small soviet bonus of an additional supply unit and no need to spend rail capacity to evac the fac, the intended supply drop model still works.

A little bit confusing, but working :)