A game of DnO?

[Dicke Bertha]

I'd like to play the Russian side :eek: and need a German opponent to humiliate me!

[Karri]

Wow. This is so diffrent from FitE. it's turn 2 and my forwards units have already crossed Dvina river and are in the suburbs of Minsk, while in FitE they were there on turn 3/4.

[Kraut]

true, but another difference is that in DNO the soviets get way more reinforcements than in FitE, in FitE they have 2000 units fo the entire war, in DNO 2000 units for 35 weeks. In FitE the soviet replacement rate starts at 1000 RS/turn vs 400 HRS/turn for the germans, in DNO it's 4000/turn soviets (LRS and RS) vs 700 HRS/turn for the germans.
From my experience so far the soviets have an easier job stalling a german offence in DNO than in FitE, simply for the fact that they get large quantities of throw-away units that can be used to dig-in along the germans way of advance to slow them down while the main army retreats to build some serious defences.
But both scenarios are excellent, you'll have hours of fun with both, so enjoy the ride :)

[Dicke Bertha]

:D Karri I am sad to hear this - send file asap and I will do what I can to make DnO more FitE-sh!

[Menschenfresser]

There even seems to be something about Soviet unit placement in FitE that stops the Germans from getting their motorized divisions out in front. I've played through T1 twice as the Germans and in both cases it took several rounds of combat to open holes along some parts of the front that open right away in DNO.

[Dicke Bertha]

Have only seen one replay of the German 1st turn in DnO - Karri's. It was awesome, splendid. Overruns, overruns, and what little was not killed in a series of devastations were so badly treated that they were unresponsive to my 1st turn. Karri shouls post that turn for expert comments, to me it looked like a schoolbook example of Blitzkrieg... Add to that the frozen status of most 2nd line units and I fear Karri's turn 2 will bring double havoc... Maybe the only thing not working 100% for Karri was the Soviet air which seemed to have survived turn 1... We'll see about that after turn two... :surprise:

[Kraut]

The germans did a good turn 1 if:

the soviet aircraft losses are approx: 2200
soviet RifleSquad losses: 4500+
AGS entirely destroyed or routed every soviet unit in the south up to Lvov/Dnestr
AGC has killed the entire outer Bialystok defence and pinned all mobile soviet units in the center, 50% of all Infantry divisions of AGC should have broken loose from combat and started marching east, all mobile divisions ignored the battles and were racing east as fast as possible
AGN: all border troops destroyed, the mobile reserves pinned, german mobile units are racing at full speed east.

The most important factor isn't the soviet losses, with the shock bonus even a medicore player will manage to destroy them all, the art of DNO is to start advancing east as fast as possible with as much as possible, a singel PzD wont make much of a different, the entire german mobile force will. I've seen so many DNO replays by now I think I can already judge from turn01 how good a german player is :D

[Dicke Bertha]

Hey Kraut; after turn 2, Soviet air was battered, maybe I did a mistake bt putting them on minimise losses - perhaps they died easier that way :) quick pain is better than slow... For the rest of the numbers, multiply by two and you have the situation after T2, I fear Karri will crush me!

Anyway, I have a question; just vaguely as always a thought has been bugging me, it is not important but just for fun; I am not savvy in computer stuff, and have too rusty mathematical skills myself to solve my question:

Also die Frage:
The game status report in TOAW is pretty useless as I understand it, it compares the situation at the present turn with the conditions for winning the whole scenario. Thus it gets increasingly better/probable, but it is static in the sense that you really don't know where you are turn by turn, compared to some "average" or "historical" value. You see what I mean? Now, would it be possible to make some kind of scenario-specific graphical display, based on the advance, losses, replacements etc by category and side (based on what players submit, some template or so) to make possible some graphics indicating historical comparison, trend (extrapolation) etc. A tool separate of course from the game, but like the "victory calculator" available at this forum.

There could be of course "moral" aspects to such a tool (if feasible). However, it could also make some games better in the sense that you have a tool to see when a victory (draw etc) is not (with a very high degree of accuracy supposedly) anymore possible, no matter what you do.

While it might take some charm away from gaming, it also would save time for us who will never surrender until the last round is expended (as in a Sicily game I played as Germans- boy did I misinterpret that one, I thought I was clever retreating intact to Messina - but that is only because I considered the historical Sicily a German success, obviously the scenario designer did not). The time spent in vain could be used better in new games, ? I think.

These kind of tools are a necessity for project engineers, keeping a close control on time and cost expenditure for projects, and it is my feeling that playing TOAW is just that; achieve your goal, you have time and cost to labour with.

Just some thoughts, I am interested in if any of you guys have comments. :)