Jutland: more than only German and British ships?

[Enforcer]

Title says it all.

Because Jutland is about WW I , I was wondering whether any French or Austro-Hungarian, or even Russian ships will be included, too.

The Russian ship "Slava" which got clobbered by the Germans in the Gulf of Riga in 1917 won't be too much work to design, because it was the 5th of the Borodino class :laugh:

The French and Austro-Hungarian navy had some beauties to their disposal, I'm thinking of the Szent-Istvan, Prinz Eugen, Wien, and so forth. I recall a French ship named after the Dutchman Jean-Bart.

Anyway, the main question is... only German/British vessels? Or... ?

[JebUSMC]

Well, if Jutland only covers the war in the Noth Sea and around the British Isles then the only large ships that fought in theater until the USA joined the war was British and German, right? Most everything else would be found in the Baltic or Med. Does Jutland only cover the North Sea theater?

[Bullethead]

A while back, Jim Cobb did a preview of Jutland. He posted a pic of the campaign map here (http://www.wargamer.com/scripts/pop_screenshot2.asp?pic_source=http://www.wargamer.com/articles/jutlandpreview/jtprvcampgn.jpg). Draw your own conclusions :)

BTW, the map has been revamped considerably since that pic was taken, but the geographical area's still the same.

[Fairweather]

The only other country with naval bases in that map is France. And they did mount destroyer sweeps in the Channel.

[Enforcer]

mmm okay

thanks for the information

[SMS Goeben]

A while back, Jim Cobb did a preview of Jutland. He posted a pic of the campaign map here (http://www.wargamer.com/scripts/pop_screenshot2.asp?pic_source=http://www.wargamer.com/articles/jutlandpreview/jtprvcampgn.jpg). Draw your own conclusions :)

BTW, the map has been revamped considerably since that pic was taken, but the geographical area's still the same.

Too bad the focus is so narrow. I know it is a tough assignment anyway, but it sure would be nice to have a larger world to sail. The Med was an interesting place in WWI (just ask Captain Souchon ;) ) with possible action between the French, Italians and British vs the Austrians and Turks. There was even action in the Black Sea, so you could include the Russians. There were conflicts in the Baltic and there could have been more if the Russians had been bolder.

And then there was the East Asia Squadron under von Spee and their epic journey into history..........and the Emden, Konigsberg, Mowe, Wolf, Seeadler and numerous other raiders. Some sort of grand strategic map would really make this a complete WWI naval game. :love:

Ahh well, just dreaming :smoke:

[Bullethead]

Too bad the focus is so narrow. I know it is a tough assignment anyway, but it sure would be nice to have a larger world to sail.

Really and turly, the North Sea is about as big an area as either opposing fleet could handle in real life. For fear of subs, they never went anywhere without their DDs, and the DDs ranges were all limited essentially to only a diagonal round trip (Scapa-Wilhelmshaven or vice versa) with very little reseve. And unlike the RJW, you can't stretch that with UnReps. Neither side seems to have practiced this enough to matter, probably due to the fact that most of the bigger ships burned coal and most of the DDs burned oil. So the BBs were limited to the same region as the DDs.

The Med was an interesting place in WWI (just ask Captain Souchon ;) ) with possible action between the French, Italians and British vs the Austrians and Turks. There was even action in the Black Sea, so you could include the Russians.

I'm pretty sure Souchon was an admiral :).

But yeah, the Med has POTENTIAL. Problem is, it would all have to be hypothetical, because in real life it was actually very boring from a BB POV. Once the initial uncertainty went away in the 1st few days of August 1914, there was NEVER any chance of a general fleet action there. With Italy switching sides, the combined Italo-French fleet was WAY more than a match for the Austro-Hungarian fleet, so the KuKM pretty much stayed at home the whole war. Thereafter, it was all about subs and mines.

Now, if Italy had stuck with the Central Powers, the combined Italo-Austo-Hungarian fleet would have been at least a match for the French. This would have forced the Brits to commit heavy units long-term to the Med, which would have made things easier for the HSF in the North Sea, at least early in the war. But as I said, this is hypothetical. Still, it's one of my favorite WW1 campaigns to play. It's up there with WPO.

The Black Sea was interesting for a year or 2 but rapidly got boring, too. The Russian predreads acting together were at least a match for your namesake, so the Russian light forces and amphibs were able to do what they wanted. As time went by, things slid more into their favor with Russian dreadnoughts showing up and their DDs pretty much cutting off the Turkish coal supply. Thus, Goeben couldn't even move very much, and when she did, the Russians always had superior force.

There were conflicts in the Baltic and there could have been more if the Russians had been bolder.

The Germans either had next to nothing in the Baltic, or they had most of their stuff there. So either way, it would be rather 1-sided.

My favorite Baltic scenario is actually 1919 :).

[Hinchinbrooke]

Compared to WWI Med, WWII Med was a battleship riot!!!............ and how often has that particular theatre been rendered............?

For WWI, the North Sea was 'it', in terms of naval warfare. I'm just glad someone's attempting it.

[Bullethead]

Compared to WWI Med, WWII Med was a battleship riot!!!............ and how often has that particular theatre been rendered............?

That's one of my favorite naval campaigns, too. One of the last GNB series did it. Sadly, it was complete crap. I mean absolute garbage, as in a pre-alpha "screw it and dump it out the door" unworkable disaster.

The campaign, which is what I bought it for, just flat didn't work at all. It always crashed horribly and messily about 5 seconds in. The tactical side was also a huge retrograde step from prior GNB titles and far below even TF1942, which had been out for a while by then. No 3D ships at all, just 2D sprites of very low resolution. Even worse, these sprites were waterline drawings so when you sank a ship and it stood on one end like Titanic, you could see that it had nothing below the waterline. And when you could get a tactical battle to run for more than 10 minutes without crashing, you'd see things like 2 Brit 6" cruisers sinking an Italian battleship with gunfire alone at a range of 25kyds.

This was back in the nadir of computer gaming, in the early 90s, when hardly anything in any genre worked. And the internet was just getting going, so there was still no such thing yet as downloadable patches (who'd want to at 2400bd anyway?), official forums, etc. Fortunately, EB had just come into existence and they had a no-questions-asked return policy, which was a real novelty.

I still have nightmares about that game and harbor lingering grudges against all who released it in that state. It's still the worst out-of-the-box game I've ever gotten, and that's saying a lot :).

[rgreat]

GNB 3 was imho the best of the series.