Hidden Valley

[switch_back]

I am getting really frustrated with Hidden valley, im perfectly aware of keeping my vehicles back behind the infantry as they advance, but staying away from AT fire isnt the problem.

Because my vehicles are stuck to moving slowly well behind the infatry advance, they just get smashed one by one by PRECISION artillery strikes, the infantry havent even gotten to the point of contact with the first set of AT units and my entire force of vehicles has dis-appeared thanks to the artillery.

How can I beat this scenario if I cant even get to contact with the AT units, its not like I can keep re-positioning the vehicles in a frenzy because of the tight corridor fro movement coupled with the fact that I cant get too far forward because of being struck by AT weapons!!

Am I being stupid? whats going on here, this isnt right!!

Just frustrated, because I am so close to perfecting the art of attack in ATF and actaully winning a scenario.

Thanks for any future suggestions.

[kbluck]

Before we all get into the serious kibitzing, which version of Hidden Valley are you playing: the stock database1 version, or one of my (kb) imports? If kb, which version of the database?

I ask because a while back I made some changes to target values that may change some aspects of AI artillery targeting, but I've yet to receive any third-party feedback on its practical effects.

--- Kevin

[kbluck]

Oh, and another thing: see if you can't attach a couple of screenshots to illustrate what you're doing with your plan to your next post. People will probably give you better feedback if they can see what you're doing.

--- Kevin

[Scully]

I actually found this scenario to be very difficult, especially with the stock database. I agree with KB here, if you're not using his database and scenario, I would suggest you try it that way and see how it goes.

Brian

[Pat Proctor]

IMHO, the bradleys are pretty useless in this scenario, except to get the infantry to a dismount point close to the valley.

Use direct and indirect (mortar) fire suppression, when you identify an infantry position, to get several infantry teams really close, and kill the unit with direct fire. Just repeat this, over and over, crawling up the valley, until you get to the end of the valley.

The other advice I would give you is come at dug in postions from the rear. Do not try a frontal assault on fighting positions, or the results will look like Omaha beach.

[kbluck]

The other advice I would give you is come at dug in postions from the rear. Do not try a frontal assault on fighting positions, or the results will look like Omaha beach.

While this is excellent tactical advice in general, what are the practical game benefits of doing so? I haven't been able to discern any noticeable difference in the results regardless of what direction I approach the enemy in terms of spotting or pH.

--- Kevin

[switch_back]

Im not sure what version of the database I have, but i'll do a fresh install of the game and re-patch it just to make sure, which one of your databases is the best to patch on?

Thanks for the advice Pat, but getting the AT positions taken out is no problem its just getting boshed by artillery all the time, zoning straight onto the target everytime, even if its moving, not that there is much space to move. The amount of artillery they have is pretty hard to swallow also, three whole batterys command by some defending infatry???

By the time the infantry get to the valley. there are no supporting vehicles left.... nothing but burning wrecks destroyed by hyper accurate artillery bombardments.

Not having a stab at you Pat or anyone for that matter, just getting a bit frustrated, I started playing the Basrah scenario to make myself feel better, but it just made me worse because I cant do that one either!!

Thanks for listening to my vented frustration :D

[kbluck]

its just getting boshed by artillery all the time, zoning straight onto the target everytime, even if its moving, not that there is much space to move.

I do think call for fire is one aspect that TacOps does better. All modern armies, including the US unless a FIST or similarly equipped specialist happens to be doing the calling, have trouble getting first-round accuracy from artillery fire. Generally, without a nearby preregistered reference point, some adjustment is necessary to get fire on target accurately, but these aspects are completely omitted in ATF. A curious omission from a game whose detailed artillery model is supposed to be a crown jewel. It is also annoying that literally any unit at all getting a spot for a second or so can thereby immediately call in ultra-precise artillery fire as fast as the battery can load it, and conversely that there is no real benefit to having units like FISTs around unless you are going to call in PGM.

At any rate, the only real defense against artillery is to keep moving. If your vehicles halt for more than a minute or so in sight of any enemy unit, they're going to get pasted. It is unlikely that fire is actually hitting moving targets as such; more likely, a follow-on unit is moving into the beaten zone of fire intended for a leading target that had paused briefly.


Im not sure what version of the database I have, but i'll do a fresh install of the game and re-patch it just to make sure, which one of your databases is the best to patch on?

It isn't really necessary to reinstall the game. As for whether my database is an issue, check the scenario title. If you see a "KB" anywhere in the title, then it is using my database. Otherwise, it is using the "stock" data. As for patch levels for my database, I always recommend the latest, which can always be downloaded from here:

http://www.warfarehq.com/archives/forumdisplay.php?f=25

--- Kevin

[Pat Proctor]

On the artillery issue, I would simply point out that, in this scenario, I am replicating the National Training Center, circa 1999. The "Krasnovians" have GOBS of artillery. Generally, they have a three to one advantage, just at the regimental level (generally 1 BN 2S1 and 2 BNs of 2S19s). That isn't even counting the BN of 2S5s, the BN of BM21s, and the BN of 9P140s at the division artillery group.

At the NTC, they teach the maneuver forces to never stop in an un-covered position for more than 7 minutes, lest you leave a greasy spot on the desert floor. The OPFOR here are VERY well trained observers, and electronic bullets are impervious to changes in wind and weather. This IS an acurate simulation of the conditions at the NTC.

In fact, this fight is an exact recreation of a fight that actually took place here (though the names have been changed to protect the guilty ;) ). The only difference is that, in the real fight, the OPFOR fired chem AND FASCAM into the valley and massed with ALL THREE artillery battalions.

I wanted to give you a fighting chance :)

[switch_back]

I wanted to give you a fighting chance :)

I dont think I have any chance Pat :nuts:

And thanks Kev i'll check out the link! :D