Bunkers/pillboxes

[Poor Old Spike]

This series of tests were conducted with veteran units, in command, clear summer midday.
(my cmbb grid squares are 20m)

Over 100m range-
HMG's open up and caused box-crew casualties, making them abandon it. However not all games will have a massed rank of HMG's like this, so knocking out a box will take considerably longer if using just a few HMG's.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub3/pbx-mg.jpg


http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub3/pbox4.jpg




Around 40-60m range-
Rifles and grenade-launchers open up, but sometimes you'll have to issue a fire order to kickstart them into action. Rifle fire and rif-grenades occasionally kill a box crewman.
Arrow indicates a grenade, their max throwing range is about 40m and they can hurt boxes.
Inset shows a volley of rifle-grenades showering the box.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub3/pboxrif.png




Around 30-40m range-
The heavier grenade bundles and satchel charges will begin flying as the range drops to around 35m and under, they can seriously hurt boxes/bunkers.
Flamethrowers will also join in from 40m (range varies with nationality)
I also ran a molotov test with Russian infantry but they preferred throwing grenades and there was no way to make them throw molos)
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub3/pboxbuds-satch.jpg




Well over 100m range-
Panzerschrecks will fire at quite long ranges but you must order them to fire, or they won't.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub3/pbx-sck.jpg



Likewise, PIATS (bottom group) and bazookas (top) also need a fire order to make them open up.(my cmak grid is 10m)
I never saw a schreck/ piat/ baz score a 'penetration' through the concrete as the hits were 'no effect', but occasionally they scored a 'firing slit penetration' which caused crew casualties and eventually the survivors abandoned.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub3/pbxpiat-baz.jpg

[Poor Old Spike]

Once you've got proper guns in your hands you'll have pboxes for breakfast; here 3 Stuarts take out an AT-pbox just 21 seconds into the turn!
Sure, the gun got 2 of them first but my point is that a FIRING SLIT HAS ZERO ARMOUR and WILL be 'penetrated' sooner or later..:)
In fact a small fast-firing gun like the Stuarts 37mm might even be better than a larger slower-firing gun for anti-pbox work because its higher rate of fire means there's more chance of one of its shells slitting quickly..

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub3/Stuvpbx.jpg




Even a tiny 20mm-armed car can knock out an MG-bunker (left) or MG-pillbox (right) in about just 16 seconds (note clock) because it fires fusillades of slit-penetrating bursts..
But if it went up against a gun-armed box it might not last very long unless it had a few mates helping out..
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub3/Carvpb-bunk.jpg

[Nemesis Lead]

Good post. One thing.....the best way to kill pill boxes is with HE chuckers that do "blast damage."

What i mean is.......the shells hit the ground near the front of the pillbox and the blast goes into the firing slit. The Pillbox never gets LOS to your shooter.

This works in either CMAK or CMBB, but not both. I forget which one has it.

[ER_Chaser]

Another thing: in my current game, Mr. Oki's JS2 fired at my pillbox (75mm gun box) at 500m+ range from side (completely side, 90 degrees), and one shot knocked it out. So the side "armor" of these concrete pillbox is not that good, it can be destroyed by large guns. But I do not know whether the JS2 was firing AP or HE rounds at that time.

[Okimaw]

Another thing: in my current game, Mr. Oki's JS2 fired at my pillbox (75mm gun box) at 500m+ range from side (completely side, 90 degrees), and one shot knocked it out. So the side "armor" of these concrete pillbox is not that good, it can be destroyed by large guns. But I do not know whether the JS2 was firing AP or HE rounds at that time.

I didn't notice at the time if it was firing AP or HE. IMHO it was just shoddy workmanship building the pillbox, thats what happens when you use non union contractors :laugh:

[Nemesis Lead]

Another thing: in my current game, Mr. Oki's JS2 fired at my pillbox (75mm gun box) at 500m+ range from side (completely side, 90 degrees), and one shot knocked it out. So the side "armor" of these concrete pillbox is not that good, it can be destroyed by large guns. But I do not know whether the JS2 was firing AP or HE rounds at that time.

So it must be CMBB where you can kill with splash damage.

Safest way to kill a pillbox in CM or in real life.