First impressions

[Leo]

Hi,

i'm new to ATF but not to the genre. I just installed the ATF 1.04 demo. I played the attack scenario a few times. Here are my first impressions (if somebody is interested in).

Cons
-pretty worthless LOS-tool - compared to other wargames (that's a mayor drawback!!!)
-i often mix up the hills with the valleys. Together with the LOS-tool it's really tricky to find eg a save route for your units
-bad performance (a little bit to slow)
-no 32bit...(!)
-there are only a few units available (mabe the full version has much more)
-no photos in the vehicle database - i would be nice to have a short description of every unit or additional infos
-when your units drive in formation and the terrain is a little bit cramped it often happens that some vehicles automatically set insane routes (a part of the formation then presents their rear to the enemy etc.)
-infantry seems to be a little bit worthless

Pros
-nice to have different command-levels
-detailled map
-i like the dry flair of the game
-many options available to employ your strategy
-you have the feeling that you really command your units


Conclusion
Nice and accurate simulation of a modern battlefield - but with room for improvements.


Ok - that's all. Greetings.
Leo

[switch_back]

Leo I think you will find that alot of these issues that have described can be answered in previous posts, plus the patches for the game have sorted bits and bobs out. Rest assured there are loads of vehicles and units in the game. Plus infantry is useful, its just getting the hang of using it, but once you do they can be quite invaluble.

Im sure Pat will be able to make things a bit clearer.

Welcome to Warfare HQ and ATF :D

[Scully]

Hi,

i'm new to ATF but not to the genre. I just installed the ATF 1.04 demo. I played the attack scenario a few times. Here are my first impressions (if somebody is interested in).

Hey Leo...welcome to ATF. I'll try to answer some of your questions below.

Cons
-pretty worthless LOS-tool - compared to other wargames (that's a mayor drawback!!!)

I actually find it to be extremely helpful. A couple of things you may not be aware of. First, before the game starts, you can drag your units around and check LOS by right clicking while you're dragging. I use this when setting up on defense. Once the game starts, you can right click on a unit, selection the Information link and it will show you every enemy unit you have line of sight to and whether they can be positively identified (a red line) or if they're still unidentified (yellow line). I think these two features may help you find more worth with the LOS tool.

-bad performance (a little bit to slow)

I have the same problem...of course, my computer is old and slow. :)

--there are only a few units available (mabe the full version has much more)

There are many more units in the full version including significant additions by members of this community.

--when your units drive in formation and the terrain is a little bit cramped it often happens that some vehicles automatically set insane routes (a part of the formation then presents their rear to the enemy etc.)

The best way to get through difficult terrain is to use the "No Formation" option under formations. Of course, some terrain is impassable for certain vehicles.

-infantry seems to be a little bit worthless)

I believe switchback mentioned this, but a member of the community developed a much more robust infantry database that makes infantry fighting much more realistic.

I love ATF for many reasons, including the ones you mentioned. I would also point out that the developer, Cpt. Proctor, is very active on this forum and always around to answer questions and provide general support. In addition, the guys here at the forum do a lot of great work in terms of database enhancements and scenario creation.

Take care,
Brian

[Leo]

Hi Scully,

thank you for your comments and hints. :)


I actually find it to be extremely helpful. A couple of things you may not be aware of. First, before the game starts, you can drag your units around and check LOS by right clicking while you're dragging. I use this when setting up on defense. Once the game starts, you can right click on a unit, selection the Information link and it will show you every enemy unit you have line of sight to and whether they can be positively identified (a red line) or if they're still unidentified (yellow line). I think these two features may help you find more worth with the LOS tool.

LOS tools are without doubt the most powerful tools in wargames. But the LOS in ATF draws only a few lines from which you get information of visible terrain. Considering the detailed map (a lot of heights/levels) this is not very satisfying. In other wargames you have shaded areas or a lot of lines drawn from the point of view.

Leo

[CPangracs]

Hi Scully,

thank you for your comments and hints. :)



LOS tools are without doubt the most powerful tools in wargames. But the LOS in ATF draws only a few lines from which you get information of visible terrain. Considering the detailed map (a lot of heights/levels) this is not very satisfying. In other wargames you have shaded areas or a lot of lines drawn from the point of view.

Leo
I think you are mistaken here, Leo.
ATF draws only a few lines from which you get information of visible terrain This is exactly what Line-Of-Sight means, Leo! If you have a unit selected and you are checking LOS, you get weapons ranges and a 360 degree view out to those ranges from the unit. I don't understand how this is not satisfying! There's no other information you CAN get from LOS,...you can either see into an area or you can't.

[Leo]

@CPangracs

I'll try to explain my criticism more deeply.

First, it's very usefull to have the LOS-tool in ATF showing the different weapon ranges and the view-ranges of the unit, too.

But - i'm talking about the core-function of LOS-tools. In ATF i'm talking about the yellow lines. Generally a LOS-tool should give a player informations about the areas of the map which the selected unit(s) can see.
In ATF you only get informations about the LOS along the yellow lines. The problem is that there are only a few lines which are drawn from the unit. You don't know what a unit can see in the areas between the yellow lines. I don't mean the discontinuances of the yellow lines - these are the areas the unit cannot see - that's clear. Considering the detailled map i think there must be an adequate LOS-tool with more LOS-information.

The perfect solution would be to shade the areas which can be seen from a unit. If this is not possible - it would be more usefull to have a lot more yellow lines drawn from the unit. MORE LINES = MORE INFORMATIONS = MORE FUN. I think the simulatinon has an high claim - and the LOS-tool should perform as well as the other elements of the game.:love:

I hope i make my point clear enough - btw sorry for my bad english - i hope it's good enough to avoid misunderstandings.:nuts:

Greetings
Leo

[CPangracs]

I am still confused. What do you mean by "more yellow lines? The LOS lines represent the part of the terrain in which you MAY be able to spot something, depending on modifiers such as defilade or in holes.

There is no such thing as perfect intelligence on the battlefield. I don't think you should know what you can't see, that is completely unrealistic. The thing that seperates the ATF engine from others is the depth of realism, IMO.

[Pat Proctor]

Leo,

I think the other members of the forum have pretty much covered everything. I would just add a few things...

Vehicle Pictures in specs. This capability exists for player created databases. Our next commercial release, Raging Tiger (which is built with the same engine and will run all of ATF's scenarios) DOES include this feature. Maybe you should give that a spin when the demo is released in a few weeks.
LOS Tool. An additional feature is that, if you right click while moving holes or minefields, they, too, will generate LOS Fans. In addition, when planning routes, while adding or moving path nodes, right clicking will display an LOS FAN.
LOS Fan detail. This is really a limitation of current processor speeds. The terrain in ATF is so detailed that adding additional "splines" to the fan create a significant hit on performance on all but the highest end machines.

I absolutely do not want to discourage input. If you have any ideas for engine improvements, please feel free to e-mail me at:

pproctor@prosimco.com

[Leo]

Thank you for your answer Pat.

I suspected the LOS-thing has someting to do with the hardware-performance - too bad.
In steel beasts the LOS-Tool shades all of the visible area (+ the area in which the enemy only see your turret in a different colour [hull-down-positions]) in the map-planning mode - ie before the really game stars. Maybe for ATF or the upcoming Raging Tiger it's possible to have more LOS Fan detail in the pause-mode?

Raging tiger sounds interesting. I'm looking forward to try out the demo. Buit i think i have to wait some 4 weeks - maybe in this time i manage to be victorious in the demo-attack-scenario.:cheeky:

With kind regards
Leo