View Full Version : Mike T. vs. Suncat
Hello, I'm a newbie to PBEM. This is my first match actually. I skimmed over some of the topics here and have concluded my strategy, which pretty much is to hold out as best I can against the Allied onslaught. I have split all my units into threes, and have tried to build a line of defense along the Gothic line. I have also tried to spread out my arty and AT units with the infantry, so they can support the defense.I launched an air attack on the British ships, but dealt 0% damage while taking 60% casualties. Anyway, since I'm so new to this, you may want to speak to me as if speaking to a small child:)
If I or someone else has not posted a detailed reply in 24 hours, send me a PM and I will do so, ok?
Heldenkaiser
01 Feb 08, 14:36
Just a few comments.
- You have a high number of retreated units in the rear areas. I suppose you have been moving around a lot. With Allied airpower as it is in this scenario, try to move only if really necessary. Some of these units have really horrible readiness ratings now, making them next to worthless for your defence.
- You want your defending units on IL. This is all about buying time. A defending unit that retreats preserves its strength, but buys no time in the short run.
- Likewise, while the Foglia river is the best--and hopefully ultimate--defensive line, I probably wouldn't have abandoned the Metauro line so easily without slowing the Allies down at least a bit. Again, buying time. You have 3rd Paratroops now in the open and mostly in "D". You could have left it behind the Metauro, digging in to "E" or even "F", instead.
- I like the StuG in Fano, but I would have liked it better if it had support. Still, even so it may cause some nasty turn-burning for the Allied player.
- While moderate breaking down of units can help you to man the Gothic Line better, flooding the map with tiny companies is not necessarily the best tactics here. Unless they are well dug in on good defensive terrain, they can easily end up being RBC'd all over the map. Remember also that a formation with many broken-down units is more susceptible to going into reorg.
- The bridge between Urbino and Montecalvo needs to be destroyed.
- Oh and, defend behind the river, not on it. A unit attacking from a river hex incurs a 33% penalty on its attack strength. You want the bad guys to be in that spot.
- 4th Para--these poor guys have the river in their back. Where are they planning to go when they are being attacked in front?
Hope this makes sense to you. If not, please ask. Others with more experience will likely have more profound comments. :)
With only one finished and two ongoing PBEMs, I still must be considered a noob. However, since two of my games are Road to Rimini-games in this workshop, I might have some hint that are useful to you.
About the enemy: apart from overwhelming numbers, a few things may give you a hard time if your opponent plays it well:
(1) Air interdiction is a pain the first 4 turns. If your opponent sets all air units on interdiction at the end of his turn, you will experience air interdiction levels in excess of 70%. This makes movement very costly. In my ongoing game as Axis, I had almost half my artillery units evapped when insisting on regrouping them in spite of this. Some tips - such as moving armour first - have been given in other workshop threads, so look around.
(2) The Allied artillery assets are devastating! Their defensive support make attacks almost suicidal, so think before attacking.
(3) The Allies have lots of major fording capability, so expect river crossings anywhere!
Your position looks okay so far. By dividing units, you get a much-needed depth. Some comments:
(1) Keep HQs, artillery and engineers away from the front. Set them to minimize losses, so that they are more likely to retreat if attacked.
(2) I set other units to ignore losses. That way they are more likely to stand ground, and also tend to burn more time during your opponent's turn if attacked.
(3) When planning combats, keep an eye on the circle of stars: if some stars are grey, some attacking unit has moved a lot, and will burn time for you. With careful planning you will get more combat rounds per turn. Also, attacking with minimize loss setting consume less time.
(4) When attacking, let your artillery do the job. A (non-artillery) unit on limited attack minimize losses, supported by artillery can cause heavy casualties (also see 8).
(5) Artillery can be used in several ways:
(i) Direct bombardment is usually ineffective. Artillery is much more effective supporting other attackers (presumably, the defeders have to stick out their heads).
(ii) Passing a comm check, artillery will indirectly support any combat within range at half strength. However, this is not the case if the artillery unit is mobile. Be sure to dig in or tac res any artillery units before ending your turn, so that you get defensive support from them.
(iii) Artillery can directly support combat at full strength. However, you can only assign an artillery unit to one attack per combat round. Also, if your turn ends unexpectedly, the unit will be mobile, not giving defensive support.
(6) If you withdraw behind a bridge - blow it!
(7) Love your StuGs, they can be very tough on the defence! Divide and mix with infantry. Similarly, mix AT and AA with infantry.
(8) Consider attacking over-stacked hexes (red or orange indicator). This will build up your opponent's loss penalty (see 4)
(9) Have engineers present when digging in units to get a boost to entrenchment. They don't need to dig themselves, so have them move from hex to hex while you dig in other units.
(10) Armour on tac res behind the front can be a nasty surprise to an attacker.
(11) Personally, I found the Luftwaffe vs Adriatic Fleet gamble worth trying, and had some success. Your large losses could perhaps be due to your opponent having some air units on Air superiority, or it might just have been bad luck.
I hope these noob-to-noob tips will be of use to you, and that any misunderstandings on my part are corrected by the TOAW vets.
Reinforcements are due turn 6, so keep it up until then!
Thanks, boys.
Glad you lads saw, because I forgot, and had yet to receive a reminder PM. :clown:
Hello, I'm a newbie to PBEM.
I newbie too :)
I am not game "Road to Rimini" before...
It's hard purpose for The Allies - They has small time to finish offensive in Rimini
Mike and I is fighting 4th turn only
My panzer units was break through Gothic Line nearby Montecalvo...
Let's look that will be further...
Heldenkaiser
02 Feb 08, 08:30
I newbie too :)
I am not game "Road to Rimini" before...
It's hard purpose for The Allies - They has small time to finish offensive in Rimini
Mike and I is fighting 4th turn only
My panzer units was break through Gothic Line nearby Montecalvo...
Let's look that will be further...
Technically, since you are playing Allies, you should probably not attend the Axis sub-forum. You would get too much information on your opponents' situation and plans ... :shy:
Sorry,
I have not thought of it...
I leave...
Sorry,
I have not thought of it...
I leave...
It's alright. I have set up SunCat with his own thread over in the Allied sub-forum, that way he can get some advice, too.
I had written up a lengthy post yesterday, but it isn't here. Not sure what went wrong... Here goes again...
Just wanted to say thanks for the help! TOAW is a fascinating game, but one with a very steep learning curve. My goals are to become a better player and, by doing so, get more enjoyment from the game.
- You have a high number of retreated units in the rear areas. I suppose you have been moving around a lot. With Allied airpower as it is in this scenario, try to move only if really necessary. Some of these units have really horrible readiness ratings now, making them next to worthless for your defence. My original plan was to retreat back to the Gothic Line and blow the bridges behind me. I figured that this was probably the best defensive situation. However, allied interdiction was hellish, and I failed to get all my units across before the allies got close to the bridges. I was able to blow the bridge at Montecchio, but they captured the one a Montecalvo.
- While moderate breaking down of units can help you to man the Gothic Line better, flooding the map with tiny companies is not necessarily the best tactics here. Unless they are well dug in on good defensive terrain, they can easily end up being RBC'd all over the map. Remember also that a formation with many broken-down units is more susceptible to going into reorg. This is a tactic that I have read on these forums. Supposedly splitting your units allow them to be harder targets for Allied air and artillery. And BTW what does RBC'ed mean?
The Allied artillery assets are devastating! Their defensive support make attacks almost suicidal, so think before attacking. I've found that out, so I haven't been doing much attacking. I did have some success attacking an overstacked hex near Montecalvo.
One question I have is: do you need to establish a solid wall of defense from one side of the map to another? If you do, some units will be on poor defensive terrain and may be vulnerable. If you don't wouldn't you be open to encirclements?
Thanks again! I'll try to put your advice to good use. Turn 5 is coming up...
Heldenkaiser
04 Feb 08, 13:17
This is a tactic that I have read on these forums. Supposedly splitting your units allow them to be harder targets for Allied air and artillery. And BTW what does RBC'ed mean?
Retreat Before Combat. I am sure you have seen it--when you try to set up an attack against an enemy unit and it retreats instead while your attacking unit advances into the hex it vacates. (If not, read section 10.5.2 in the manual.) :)
Splitting up units should be used judiciously and only if really necessary, in my opinion. The first thing it does is make you weaker and more vulnerable. You lose proficiency by breaking down, and you end up with smaller units that are more easily defeated in battle, routed, or--as I said--RBC'd. ;) And it makes it more likely that your formation goes into reorg, thus being unavailable for offensive orders. In short, under most circumstances you want your units whole, not divided.
The exceptions are of course where you need the additional frontage--extending a line, plugging a gap, completely surrounding an enemy unit--or depth. When I have comparatively large units and a comparatively short front, I will sometimes break some down to create a second line or reserve. Additionally, I sometimes break down hard targets like armour or AG's and distribute them along the line to stiffen the defence.
Under no circumstance do you want to end up with 1-1 units if you can avoid it. They are simply no defence at all, unless dug in to at least "E".
And no, for all I know it does not make them harder to target or less susceptible to attack. :rolleyes:
One question I have is: do you need to establish a solid wall of defense from one side of the map to another? If you do, some units will be on poor defensive terrain and may be vulnerable. If you don't wouldn't you be open to encirclements?
That's where individual judgement and cunning comes into play, I should say. :)
Good defensive terrain is a key advantage; especially terrain that the enemy cannot advance into (and hence attack) except with a full movement allowance. There is such terrain on this map, and it can buy you a full turn under most circumstances, because only a unit that has not moved previously can attack it at all.
Where there is no easily defensible terrain, I will often leave a gap on purpose. The reason is that a unit being pushed back (maybe repeatedly) from less defensible terrain will allow the enemy to penetrate deeper into my lines than a gap would. This works only, of course, it there is defensible terrain on the sides and ideally in the rear of the gap as well that helps to contain a penetration.
You can use units with high recon values to guard gaps or flanks, thus obviating the need to physically occupy every inch of real estate on the map. Only units that have similarly high recon values will be able to bypass such units without high movement and disengagement penalties. Which means against most threats, a line with some gaps will hold at least for a while. There are always approach routes that due to terrain restrictions the enemy cannot take, or not without excessive loss of time, or at least not without taking a key location first. Evaluating these circumstances and then guarding most heavily against the most likely, most dangerous threats, and less and with some flexibility based on mobile reserves against the less likely and less dangerous threats is where judgement, intuition, in short: generalship, comes in. :cool:
Hope this makes sense to you. :)
Gotic line almost intact, and 26th Pz Div. already arrived - this looks promising :thumup:. However, each and every piece of artillery seems to be in mobile deployment, and thus will not support your defence :(. I guess you were taken unawares by an early turn end...
A few other comments:
The red-glowing Allied stacks near Montecalvo looks ripe - consider limited attacks with artillery support.
Putting a unit on the mountain peak in San Marino would give you a better view of the theatre.
And BTW what does RBC'ed mean?
Retreat Before Combat - it usually happens when a unit is attacked by a much stronger enemy unit.
One question I have is: do you need to establish a solid wall of defense from one side of the map to another? If you do, some units will be on poor defensive terrain and may be vulnerable. If you don't wouldn't you be open to encirclements?
You must restrict the enemy's ability to maneuver behind your line (though you might be able to have a more sparse line in the mountainous region where movement is limited). In poor defensive terrain it is important to have depth in your line. Entrenching both one and two hexes behind your front line prepares the positions for your next stand. Have your engineer units running around supporting others when they dig in.
However, each and every piece of artillery seems to be in mobile deployment, and thus will not support your defence :(. I guess you were taken unawares by an early turn end...
So do they need to be in tactical reserve deployment? I guess I don't fully understand deployment.
I've tried to stop the penetration at Morciano di Romagna. I sent some Stugs that I got as reinforcements there. I've dug in more units and set orders to ignore losses. I launched another futile airstrike on the Adriatic Fleet....40% loss.
I will definately have to play this again, utilizing the tips you have given me. Here's the present situation.
Heldenkaiser
04 Feb 08, 13:56
What Goliath said ... ;)
Definitely attack those red-light stacks around Montecalvo. They will suffer excessive casualties.
Next time, even if an early turn end surprises you, try to have at least a part of your force dug in--as a precaution, start digging in on key locations already after the first movement round. Units you think you might need again--especially artillery--should be on Tactical Reserve rather than mobile, so they will at least support your defence during your opponent's turn. :)
Although with free support it's not really an issue, try to get used to keeping units of the same formation, and more important, of the same icon color scheme, together. It will help you in games with more limited support levels. :cool:
Heldenkaiser
04 Feb 08, 15:12
So do they need to be in tactical reserve deployment? I guess I don't fully understand deployment.
Actually it's shockingly simple.
D/E/F is the same - the units don't move, get defensive bonuses, and (if ranged) support other units
Mobile and Moving is the same - the units are available for movement, don't support anyone, and get no bonuses
Finally, T and L is about the same, except for the radius (T moves only into adjacent hexes, which is preferred). The units do support other units, but are also ready to move, so they likewise get no defensive bonuses.
So units in D/E/F and T/L support other units. :)
Actually it's shockingly simple.
D/E/F is the same - the units don't move, get defensive bonuses, and (if ranged) support other units
Mobile and Moving is the same - the units are available for movement, don't support anyone, and get no bonuses
Finally, T and L is about the same, except for the radius (T moves only into adjacent hexes, which is preferred). The units do support other units, but are also ready to move, so they likewise get no defensive bonuses.
So units in D/E/F and T/L support other units. :)
Keep in mind, these are all correct for units other than HQs and Artillery. HQs and Artillery treat 'T' the same as D/E/F, except without the defensive bonus if attacked.
Thanks for clearing that up. I'll be sure to mount an attack on the overstacked hexes at Montecalvo.
Heldenkaiser
14 Feb 08, 08:58
So, how's that battle coming along? :cool:
Well, I haven't gotten the next turn back from Suncat yet. I'll send him an e-mail.
OK....the situation isn't all bad. I've kept the Gothic Line from completely falling apart, but it has been broken in a couple places. I attacked some overstacked hexes and did some damage, and I have a brigade of British motorized infantry surrounded. However, I have a group of Fallshirmjager trapped in Pesaro. Only 4 turns to go....I may be able to fend him off yet.
OK....the situation isn't all bad. I've kept the Gothic Line from completely falling apart, but it has been broken in a couple places. I attacked some overstacked hexes and did some damage, and I have a brigade of British motorized infantry surrounded. However, I have a group of Fallshirmjager trapped in Pesaro. Only 4 turns to go....I may be able to fend him off yet.
Yes, it looks promising! Expect to lose some more Gotic Line, so prepare defences behind it. Some reinforcements will probably turn up soon, providing some depth. Also, a battle of attrition favours you - Allied loss penalty is rising faster.
However, before each end of turn, remember to set your artillery units either D(...E...F) or T, so that they may give defensive support! After your latest turn, several of them seem to be Mobile :(. If you find an artillery unit to be 'Retreated', use the following procedure: set up an attack using the retreated unit, and immediately cancel the attack. You will now find the unit to be in Mobile status (presumably, your attack order shocked the unit out of its 'run-away!' mood :D)
Heldenkaiser
19 Feb 08, 14:18
Not only artillery ... you have hardly any units dug in at all. It's worth saving the last MP for doing that. Artillery will support, teeth arms will defend better.
Also, now that your frontline is so shortened, I would recombine most units. You gain proficiency and hitting / staying power that way.
The orange stack at 8,13 is dangerous, it could suffer heavily when being attacked.
Conversely, keep hitting his red stacks. He is massing his troops too densely together. :)
OK...I need to remember that once a unit that is dug in gets pushed back, they need to be re-dug in. Same with artillery, once it retreats, put it back on tactical.
Expect to lose some more Gotic Line, so prepare defences behind it. Some reinforcements will probably turn up soon, providing some depth. I just got reinforcements and am doing exactly that. I'm setting up a new line between the Conca and Murano Rivers.
If you find an artillery unit to be 'Retreated', use the following procedure: set up an attack using the retreated unit, and immediately cancel the attack. You will now find the unit to be in Mobile status (presumably, your attack order shocked the unit out of its 'run-away!' mood ) For some reason, I wasn't able to get this to work. I take it that this doesn't work with routed or reorganizing units?
The orange stack at 8,13 is dangerous, it could suffer heavily when being attacked. Yes. I'm in the process of trying to move my Gothic Line troops back to where the replacements have begun setting up defense. Some of the units there are the result of retreat. BTW, is this a good strategy or would you have brought the reinforcements straight into battle in the form of counter-attacks?
So, my goals for next turn are to get my Gothic Line troops back to the second line of defense that my reinforcements are setting up. Try to destroy any bridges along the way. Recombine split units. Make sure all units are dug in or tactical. Attack his over-stacked hexes.
Heldenkaiser
21 Feb 08, 16:53
OK...I need to remember that once a unit that is dug in gets pushed back, they need to be re-dug in. Same with artillery, once it retreats, put it back on tactical.
Yes. This is especially true under conditions of extreme enemy air superiority.
For some reason, I wasn't able to get this to work. I take it that this doesn't work with routed or reorganizing units?
Correct. It does work with "retreated" units, only.
Yes. I'm in the process of trying to move my Gothic Line troops back to where the replacements have begun setting up defense. Some of the units there are the result of retreat. BTW, is this a good strategy or would you have brought the reinforcements straight into battle in the form of counter-attacks?
Obviously this depends on the situation. Where you need to restore a line, either because of an enemy penetration or to regain a very defensible terrain feature, such as a river line, an embankment, or an urban hex, counterattack. Otherwise, entrench in place to form a new line. This is a good option especially when you need to avoid moving much (as with a bad enemy air superiority).
So, my goals for next turn are to get my Gothic Line troops back to the second line of defense that my reinforcements are setting up. Try to destroy any bridges along the way. Recombine split units. Make sure all units are dug in or tactical. Attack his over-stacked hexes.
Good luck! :)
Well the battle ended in a draw. Once I started getting reinforcments and his interdiction capability dropped, things started going my way. We're going to switch sides and restart the scenario.
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