View Full Version : CMAK Scenario Packs Posted for Download
On October 14 at CMMODS 11 Scenario Packs have been posted. They are sorted mostly by theater and are:
1. 1940
2. Ardennes
3. East Africa
4. France & Germany
5. Greece
6. Italy & South France
7. Market Garden
8. Normandy
9. North Africa
10. Norway
11. Other (including Korea, the Middle East & Viet Nam)
Mad Russian
18 Oct 07, 00:25
On October 14 at CMMODS 11 Scenario Packs have been posted. They are sorted mostly by theater and are:
1. 1940
2. Ardennes
3. East Africa
4. France & Germany
5. Greece
6. Italy & South France
7. Market Garden
8. Normandy
9. North Africa
10. Norway
11. Other (including Korea, the Middle East & Viet Nam)
That's wonderful but you neglect to tell whose scenarios are in the packs.
Good Hunting.
MR
That's wonderful but you neglect to tell whose scenarios are in the packs.
Let's see MR...the Normandy pack alone is about 5.5 MB and contains scenarios from B & T, HSG, and FGM., just to name a few umbrella groups. Seems to me that they are compilations from many scenario designers. The compiler does not provide a list of who did what. But the information is available for some on the individual scenarios at such sites as Boots and Tracks, SD II as well as others, I suspect.
If you have more information, let us know.
Hmm MR aint gonna like this, I remember when the Blitz hosted his scens he wasnt too pleased.
Hmm MR aint gonna like this, I remember when the Blitz hosted his scens he wasnt too pleased.
I don't know about all of the politics, but increased availability of publicly released scenarios, and organization of same is good for the every day CMAK gamer.
I dont disagree here, however, other do. I can actually see and agree with both sides of the fence here. On one hand scenarios are made and released to a specific area (Scenario Depot) on the other hand authors cant stop them being handed around and the more prople who have access to them the better.
Very difficult to control, I suppose the best option if its possible would be to get the permission of the author to have them included but again, theres no personal of financial gain as a motive. I could go on but you probably get my point and counterpoint.
I don't know what politics have to do with CM scenario creation & distribution when designers openly make/post them for any CM player to play.
Why would a designer NOT want his "free" designs to be seen & played by as many CM'ers as possible? If you only want a specific & limited group of players to see them then don't post them for download in the first place. (seems like a waste of work to me)
The only caveat I would require is that each scenario designer be given the proper credit for their hard work.
I posted my scenarios only here initially because this was where I enjoyed playing CM. I've since posted them else where to get them broader notice (hopefully). But if someone saw enough value in one to share it with others why not, that’s what I did.
British Tommy
28 Oct 07, 20:48
The thing is, the designer uploads his scenarios to a certain place where he wants them to be available. I can see your point about getting the scenarios out to a wider group of CM players but it would of been nice to of had a text file added to the zipped files listing the designers name and his scenarios.
My own personal view is, once I release a scenario into the CM community then the players can do what they want with it (except releasing it under another name).
Mad Russian has a point though. If the scenarios are spread out too much, what happens when the designer updates his scenario?? Will he have to start hunting out all the places on the net where they are available to update each one? Keeping them in one or two locations makes it easier to delete the old version and upload the new one.
I too would have liked the compiler to include a text file listing the authors of the various scenarios. I suspect that he did not know that information and/or decided not to take the time to do it.
With regard to the version of each scenario, I figure that having an earlier released version is better than not having it at all. You can tell (or at least make a generally accurate guess) from the date of each scenario included in the packs (along with its size) to determine if it is a later, earlier or same version of one that you already have.
As a suggestion to our scenario designers, I would recommend that you place the version (after the 1.0 release) in the file name of your creations. All pre-release versions (e.g. those at the Proving Grounds) should have a number less than "1", such as version "0.1". Adopting such a convention would be of benefit for all.
I too would have liked the compiler to include a text file listing the authors of the various scenarios. I suspect that he did not know that information and/or decided not to take the time to do itl.
WHAT?! :surprise: There are NO designers listed or given credit for their designs in the pack! That then IS wrong.
If "said" compiler can find the exact friggin scenario he wanted, the name of the scenario & the briefings then he can certainly look down the dang screen to get the designers name and include it! Scheech, if a scenario doesn't have a name with it he can at least include the tag "designer unknown -contact me if designer is known."
As far as not knowing where to find an update (if there even is one) of a widely "passed around" scenario asking around might help or going to the main scenario depots is in order. :)
junk2drive
29 Oct 07, 01:56
If any of mine are in there you have my permission and blessings. Hope someone enjoys 'em.
The compiler does not provide a list of who did what.
Kerry, you must have missed the above from my post of about 10 days ago.
He compiled about 1,000 scenarios (by his count). If I took on such a task, I certainly would have included a text file giving specific credit for the maker of each scenario. Perhaps some of you designers might want to contact him to help him complete the job in the proper manner. At the barest minimum, the compiler could have made reference to SD II and say that the details about most of the included scenarios and the authors of most of the scenarios he has compiled can be found there.
Still this effort, even in its present form, might open they eyes of some to the "KM", "B & T", "HSG", "FGM" and other individuals/groups that have had a roll in creating and/or sponsoring some of these scenarios. If a newbie too them likes what he plays, he may seek out more from the original source. If he knows about SD II, he can look the scenario up and find out who created it.
In a game this old I think it can only be a good thing that all these scenarios are out there. Maybe a text file to say all of these scenarios are available at TPG or Scen Depot or elsewhere would do. Then a guy could play an MR scenario and say, hey I like him as a designer I want more, would know where to go.
Mad Russian
22 Nov 07, 01:27
I don't know about all of the politics, but increased availability of publicly released scenarios, and organization of same is good for the every day CMAK gamer.
How about if we skip the politics part altogether and go to the part where it might not be so good for the everyday gamer.
The part, where someone takes my scenarios from wherever they find them and put them someplace I have no idea about.
The part, where a new gamer, remember that argument, gets an old unbalanced version and instead of thinking, "Oh, what a great scenario", thinks instead, "That was junk...I'll never play his stuff again."
The part, where they go and put a review on it having played an early version or a scenario that was taken out of the community because it wasn't balanced or didn't play as well as would have been liked.
How about that part of displaying and moving a designers work all around the internet? Not where the designer can go and see all the wonderful accolades that the scenario is generating because he has no clue where it has been moved. Why? Because whoever moved them didn't bother to ask or tell the designer.
Everyone thanks us for making the scenarios and doing the work we do. Then a few take ownership of what we do. While it can obviously be done, what makes you think it's a good idea? Are you going to take the credit for an older unbalanced scenario? Or answer the AAR that gets generated? Or actually fix the scenario if there is something wrong with it? If not why not just let me take care of where it goes and what happens to it. Since I made it in the first place.
What makes someone think that they can do a better job of promoting or uploading or whatever a scenario they didn't make than the person that made it?
I have no problem with my scenarios being put on any site. I just like to know where they end up and if at all possible to have them linked back to The Scenario Depot II so that the updated version is always available. So that the scenarios I think are worthy to be played by the CM community are the ones that I have out there. The ones I'm getting ready to get reviews on are the ones that I have kept current and made playbalance adjustments to.
Because while I was spending all that time researching battles, maps, OOB's, multiple playtests and multiple adjustments to the scenarios, I never see the guys that take the scenarios and want to run them all over the internet for me. During the work part of a scenario they are noticeably absent. It's only when they go to TPG or TSDII that they are ready to help me out by moving them all around.
So can we skip the part where other people want to get my scenarios from anywhere other than TSDII? Is that too much to ask for the time and effort that goes into the research and time taken to put an HSG scenario together? All it takes is time enough to do a link? Is that too much to ask that YOU take that much time with my scenarios?
I don't know....maybe it is too much to ask. Some days it seems like it is. :crosseye:
Good Hunting.
MR
Mad Russian
22 Nov 07, 01:41
I too would have liked the compiler to include a text file listing the authors of the various scenarios. I suspect that he did not know that information and/or decided not to take the time to do it.
With regard to the version of each scenario, I figure that having an earlier released version is better than not having it at all. You can tell (or at least make a generally accurate guess) from the date of each scenario included in the packs (along with its size) to determine if it is a later, earlier or same version of one that you already have.
As a suggestion to our scenario designers, I would recommend that you place the version (after the 1.0 release) in the file name of your creations. All pre-release versions (e.g. those at the Proving Grounds) should have a number less than "1", such as version "0.1". Adopting such a convention would be of benefit for all.
How many versions of HSG B Bussard do I have? That was the third scenario I ever made in 2003.
I also made HSG AG Dangerous Information at the same time. How many versions of that scenario do I have?
That tells you nothing. Bussard has never been modified while Dangerous Information has been modified three times.
What good will a version number tell you? That will only do you good if you run across the scenario again at another site.
The best answer is the one discussed before. To have a central location for the scenarios and have them updated and linked from there.
This project could be done at TSDII pretty easily I would think. If the designers wanted their scenarios listed by date they could simply rename their own scenarios and have them on the site with the originals. What is so hard about that?
Nobody ever asked for it before. They didn't ask this time either.
Good Hunting.
MR
I understand and agree that there are legitimate concerns about what was done and perhaps more importantly how it was done.
Still a CM gamer who has not at this late date discovered either version of the Scenario Depot, this site, Wargamer and others that have hosted CM scenarios over the years is not likely to have found any of MR's or anybody else's scenarios at all. If that is a fact, it is better to have an earlier version (especially of generally play tested scenarios) that not have it at all.
Further some of these scenarios are no longer available after the loss of the original SD and undoubtedly other sites. Many of the creators of them are no longer active in the game or will not take the time to post them at a new site. I've even found some who told me that they no longer have a formerly publicly released scenario that I wanted to play.
So yes--a "B" version of [say] a MR scenario is better than not having it at all. In his new compilation of CMBB games, the compiler makes reference to both versions of the SD. The compiler's biggest "sin" from my view as a CM gamer is that he has renamed some of the scenarios (and did not even provided a list of these and what the original name of each was). Because of this the CM gamer looking at the parts of the compilation may not be able to go to SD II (or any other site) to see if a newer version of that scenario exists. If the name of the original scenario signified who or what group put it out--that won't be know either in the event the compiler changed the name.
In my case I have binders (two for CMBO) filled with summaries of the scenarios I have collected for many years. But for those who don't, these offerings could be a treasure trove of gaming experiences--albeit one that is less than perfect in many ways.
Mad Russian
22 Nov 07, 01:52
Maybe a better answer has to be done by the game designer. To put a disclaimer in the main briefing saying where the main scenarios are stored and that the designer keeps up with all his scenarios on that site. For the latest versions and other scenarios as well to go to that site.
In this case TSDII.
Because as has been pointed out the designers want our scenarios played or we wouldn't put them out here in the first place. But there is a definite quality issue. At the end of the day a scenario belongs to the designer. He will be the one getting the reviews, making the playbalance changes, etc...
What I find amazing about the oft repeated statement that the scenarios are getting so much more exposure. I don't see any more reviews being done on them at TSDII. Or are the reviews done where the designer may never see them? What value does that have again? Where a gamers makes comments to a scenario the designer may not ever know about or see?
Good Hunting.
MR
Mad Russian
22 Nov 07, 02:02
I understand and agree that there are legitimate concerns about what was done and perhaps more importantly how it was done.
Still a CM gamer who has not at this late date discovered either version of the Scenario Depot, this site, Wargamer and others that have hosted CM scenarios over the years is not likely to have found any of MR's or anybody else's scenarios at all. If that is a fact, it is better to have an earlier version (especially of generally play tested scenarios) that not have it at all.
Further some of these scenarios are no longer available after the loss of the original SD and undoubtedly other sites. Many of the creators of them are no longer active in the game or will not take the time to post them at a new site. I've even found some who told me that they no longer have a formerly publicly released scenario that I wanted to play.
So yes--a "B" version of [say] a MR scenario is better than not having it at all. In his new compilation of CMBB games, the compiler makes reference to both versions of the SD. The compiler's biggest "sin" from my view as a CM gamer is that he has renamed some of the scenarios (and did not even provided a list of these and what the original name of each was). Because of this the CM gamer looking at the parts of the compilation may not be able to go to SD II (or any other site) to see if a newer version of that scenario exists. If the name of the original scenario signified who or what group put it out--that won't be know either in the event the compiler changed the name.
In my case I have binders (two for CMBO) filled with summaries of the scenarios I have collected for many years. But for those who don't, these offerings could be a treasure trove of gaming experiences--albeit one that is less than perfect in many ways.
:eek: :eek:
WHAT???? Not hear of MY scenarios????
ROFL!!!!!
Yes, the concerns are not so much what has happened but how. So, this gamer is going to miss all the CM sites but find CMMOD's somehow on his own huh?!!....lol....I'm with you....
To me, as a designer, changing ANYTHING on what I've done is a sin...but that's just me as a designer.
I still think the place for this is at TSDII and not another site. Just my own $.02 worth.
Starting today I'll put a disclaimer in all my scenarios stating the originals and updates are all posted on TSDII. That may take care of the core problem. Then no matter where they travel they can come home whenever they like. The door will always be open....;)
Good Hunting.
MR
KG_Cloghaun
22 Nov 07, 02:20
Hey I just realized both of you are from Texas.
Bill, you have a new friend to go get drunk with & hunt rattlesnakes! :clown:
MR is out in west Texas. But GJK of SD II is close by.
Starting today I'll put a disclaimer in all my scenarios stating the originals and updates are all posted on TSDII. That may take care of the core problem. Then no matter where they travel they can come home whenever they like. The door will always be open....;)
Good Hunting.
MR
What I would suggest for the scenario designers is to make the version of scenario the end part of the title of each. For example: "Night and Mud Attack_v2" That way even if your scenario is compiled and the compiler throws out every thing except the scenario itself, you still should be OK--unless he also changes the very end of the name of your scenario.
On another point--if the compilations, posted at CMMODS, are found only by CM gamers who are already know about and use SD II and the other "usual CM sites", then there is no harm and we're all just blowing hot air [again?]. However, I suspect that this will not be the case, but instead these compilations will appeal primarily to newer CM gamers and those who don't, shall we say, eat and breath CM.
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