View Full Version : FINAL ROUND - War in the West
To start things off:
Bloody hell! I toasted the last thread somehow. I copied it to the staff forum to assist in creating this thread, and when I got back here, poof, it was gone! My apologies. (Sheepish grin).
Ok, now on to business... (Ahem!)
Hearty congrats go out to our finalists:
Laszlo, Joebob, and Dagger5!
Dagger, as the 3rd ranked player in the final round, you have a decision to make:
You must choose which opponent you'd like to face when you play the German side, leaving the other opponent to be the Germans when you play as the Brits, in Jamiam's Modified Sealion scenario (available in the archive, and soon on the Final Round WitW page).
Have a peek at the ladder rankings, and use any knowledge you may have on previous battles with these other two gentlemen to help you in making your decision, and then let us know how this final round will be played out.
I need all 3 players to confirm their participation, and after we here Dagger's choice, let the round begin!
Good luck to all three of you, and may the best man win!
I remember a comment I made to a post from JL:
JL - as mentioned previously, no bonus ladder points (only the ladder results due to the games) will be processed prior to the end of the tourney! Sorry, JL, you're going to have to tough it out a while longer! :)
laszlo.nemedi
07 May 04, 17:21
I confirm my participation (is there any replacement just in case :D )
Uh, yeah, I'll sub in now! (Eyes round 4 points!)
OK, I'll try and post again. The other post was more "wordy".
I'll keep it simple.
I'm in!!! :p
JoeBob
I remember a comment I made to a post from JL:
JL - as mentioned previously, no bonus ladder points (only the ladder results due to the games) will be processed prior to the end of the tourney! Sorry, JL, you're going to have to tough it out a while longer! :)
:cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry:
Is my only answer
Der WanderWantsHisPointsToBecomeOfficer
CyberRanger
18 May 04, 12:36
Dagger5 - are you still in???
Jamiam - is the revised scenario ready to be posted?
Dagger5 - are you still in???
Jamiam - is the revised scenario ready to be posted?
The revised scenario was posted to the scenario archives a couple of months ago.
Oops...it looks like the scenario archives are still down.
File is attached below. The scenario briefing follows:
Sealion 1940 (PBEM)
Hypothetical German invasion of England
Version 3.0, by James A. Mathews
Based on Sealion40, ver 2.1, by Greg Lawrence
Date: Sept 10 - Nov 5 1940
Location: England
Map scale: 10km per hex
Time scale: Half-week turns
Unit Scale: Division
Length: 17 Turns
UNIT COLORS:
German:
Wehrmacht - Grey on Grey
SS - Black on Black
Luftwaffe - White on Lt. Blue
Kreigsmarine - White on Grey
Fliegerkorps - Lt. Blue on Grey-Green
Commonwealth:
British Army - Blue on Brown
Canadian - White on Brown
New Zealand - Blue on Brown
Home Guard - Black on Brown
RAF - Lt. Blue on Lt. Brown
Royal Navy - Blue on Lt. Brown
US – White on Green
SIGNIFICANT EVENTS:
50% Chance of a Cool Front turns 10-15
75% Chance of a Storms turns 10-15
German Sea Cap: Begins at 35000, dropping 5000 per turn until it reaches 5000.
German Air Cap: 5000 turn 1, 1000 from turn 2 onward.
British Rail Cap: Begins at 6000, drops to 3000 on turn 6, and 1500 on turn 8.
Theater Recon:
German: 30
British: 25
(Original) SCENARIO BRIEFING
On September 6th 1940 Adolf Hitler orders the commencement of Operation Sealion the Invasion of England. The Luftwaffe has given the Kreigsmarine and Wehrmacht the air cover it needs to complete the channel crossing virtually unopposed. The RAF having suffered significant losses during the German air campaign can only offer token resistance. The Royal Navy and the English Army, with the assistance of the Home Guard, are now the bulwark of the embattled islands defense. The Wehrmacht working on a limited timetable must complete operations before the weather can significantly effect operations. The German plan calls for the encirclement of London, which will be starved into submission, and a drive to the Industrial midlands capturing the means of production on the island and ending any hope of further resistance. Can England stand against the most powerful land army in Europe or will they fall as all others before the German Reich.
VERSION 3.0 SCENARIO BRIEFING:
The goal remains the same, to drive into the English midlands as the Germans. The British must seal up the German beachhead, before significant progress is made in order to win. A draw is based on roughly equal loss penalties and an approximate line of German advance that would include the capture of Southend, London, Newbury, and Southampton.
However, there have been some major changes to the OOB’s of both sides, some map and scale manipulations and a drastically altered supply situation for the Germans.
MAP CHANGES:
Some map adjustments include distance modifiers for the off map air bases, offshore German supply hexes (explained in more detail later), a few roads and rails bent here and there, and specific limits shown on map regarding German naval movement and invasions.
The manipulations regarding map scale involve changing the environment variable to 15 km per hex from 10 km, while increasing the global movement rate of the units by a multiple of 150%. This gives the ground units the same movement rates as in the original scenario but has three beneficial side effects. It puts a more realistic operational radius on the air units in the game. It does away with the atrocious stacking penalties that the game was saddled with previously. This affects both combat (hex density loss modifiers) as well as movement. Finally, it also reduces the range of the artillery in all of the various HQ’s to one, which prevents the excessively large support coverage that the UK 25 lb ER guns were able to exert.
OOB and TO&E CHANGES:
The Home Guard has been both enlarged, and made less useful. Stronger, in terms of actual strength, but the addition of 2 lb AA guns with no transport will result in movement rates of 1. This will prevent them from being used as “supply drainers” or soak off units, and essentially confine these units to garrison duty. They might also add a touch of stiffening to the English Corps HQ’s if stacked together. Then again, they may fall apart in retreat before combat situations and act as movement enhancers for the Germans, if left on the front lines by themselves. Those that are stacked with air units are no longer the kiss of death for the UK air units when German airborne units directly strike the airbases. They are strong enough to allow the planes to fly away to another airbase before evaporation. This was a major problem in version 2.1 and earlier. The two HG formations are deliberately fully packed so that the units will not be allowed to breakdown. They are locked in Garrison Status until turn 6, so only loss tolerances may be adjusted for those HG units that have not been previously retreated out of their starting hexes. Only every fourth unit will reconstitute and they begin in untried status.
Unit proficiencies have been tweaked. In general, RAF units have had their proficiencies raised to 85% from 75%, while Bomber Command remains at 75%. The Luftwaffe has had a general drop from 75% to 70%. This is to recreate the overall effects of the advantages that the UK would have in terms of pilot recovery, and being able to nurse damaged airframes back to friendly territory.
Replacement Priorities (not numbers) have been generally raised for the British and held roughly level for the Germans. This is due to the increased load on the shipping assets and logistical considerations of the German Army being supported over the channel. The UK will have the home field advantage here. It was not practical to simply drop the priorities for the Germans. See Chris Horn’s (aka General Staff) excellent analysis of replacements and reconstitutions, available at www.tdg.nu, for further enlightenment.
HQ units on both sides now have MP squads to reduce the equipment density movement penalties. This will allow force to be more efficiently concentrated.
Some of the naval units on both sides have been broken down into smaller flotillas to allow more flexibility in their use, ease of reconstitution, and resiliency in combat. Replacements that are assigned to the naval equipment types are not to be assumed to be fresh ships leaving the yards, but rather an emphasis on repair of damaged ships to account for the sometimes wildly inexplicable results that TOAW gives in naval combats.
The German Panzer Divisions have been granted a more accurate TO&E, which should be better able to take on the British Armored Brigades and Divisions, which have had their starting strengths adjusted downward due to presumed equipment shortages following the Dunkerque debacle. The Amphibious Panzer Battalions have been changed to regular Panzer Battalions, and augmented with an extra Company with generally better tanks. The Panzer Divisions will have a relatively higher replacement priority than most of the rest of the German Army.
The 7th Fleiger Division units, and the OKH Glider Regiments that arrive on turn 6, do not reconstitute and have Low replacement priority. This is due to the specialized training of these units. Given the length of time that this scenario represents, there is no way that these units would be replaced, and the available pool of trained replacements would restrict their rebuilding if seriously damaged in combat. Use these assets wisely. They have their obvious utility in directly assisting attacks, and cutting off retreats, but as a continual threat to grab rear area objectives, impede reserve movement, destroy bridges and rail lines, they are worth their weight in gold.
All air units that previously had mixed range equipment have been split into separate counters for each airframe. Exception being the RAF fighters, since the Hurricanes and Spitfires differ by only one hex in range.
Some minor tweaks in terms of ground unit proficiencies for the British, and the Germans have received a boost from 75% up to 85% in most cases. This is to reflect the morale difference between the protagonists, and the “Cortez effect” on the Germans. The Germans just came from a successful French Campaign, the British are assumed to have suffered the embarrassment (and possibly worse defeat) at Dunkerque. Finally, after being shipped to the British Isles, there would be nowhere to go but on to victory or into English POW camps for the Germans. Hitler would abide no ships bringing troops back to the continent otherwise.
Much of the starting British Force is now split up into regiment size, to more intelligently cover their rear areas, and lines of retreat. Historical accounts of the preparations against a German invasion of the Isles showed a great deal of thought being given the threat of “vertical envelopment” by German airborne forces, and given the performance of the German airborne assault on Holland earlier in the year, it is clear that they were still not able to project airborne power as strong and deep as earlier versions of this scenario allowed.
Note that the pre-splitting of the British units before the scenario begins will result in the usual loss of 20% of the unit proficiencies. This WILL be regained when the units are recombined. However, the dynamic that this effect introduces will be a general weakness in individual units, compensated by increased line coverage and operational flexibility in the early game. Thus, the British will end up giving ground more readily, but will lose fewer units to encirclement. Once their reserves are released, the reinforcements arrive, and the front stabilizes, it would probably be a good idea to recombine some of these divisions to take advantage of the higher unit proficiencies and the concentration of force (for overruns, etc.) that this allows.
The British Southern Command “S Command” formation has been split off into three different commands. These are the “S Command”, “E Anglia Com”, and “SW Command”. This is to introduce a greater degree of operational flexibility as the S Command in previous versions was too fully packed to allow unit splitting.
An eighth of the Bomber Command was axed, and replaced with two squadrons of American “Volunteers” arriving on turn 8.
CRUCIAL, YET NOT ENTIRELY OBVIOUS, GAME PLAY ELEMENTS:
Supply radius for the British is 2, and for the Germans is 1. Automatic rail repair for the British starts at 2, and drops to one on turn 8. The Germans have no automatic rail repair. Both sides have rail repair squads in their Army (Germans) and High Command (British) HQ’s. Supply stockpiles are set very high in this scenario, so feel free to be as active in attacks as you like. However, as the Germans, your supply situation can go from decent to the doghouse very quickly.
German supply is handled in a completely new fashion for this scenario. The Germans must successfully contest the Channel against the British Fleet in order to feed the troops. There are no German supply points in the UK. Just offshore, there are several hexes marked “Ge SP” which are the sole sources for supply to the Germans. Some of these hexes have distance +3 borders. Some important distinctions should be made on the interplay between non-distanced and distanced hexes for both supply and combat.
Supply sources that are in distance hexes only provide minimum supply outside of their hexes, until an unbroken friendly rail line is in an adjacent, friendly controlled hex, out of an uncontested EZOC. Supply hexes that are in sea hexes WILL supply onto and through adjacent land hexes without the need for “sea roads” or other tricks. Of course, they do still need to be friendly controlled during the Automatic Bookkeeping Phase to count as a friendly supply source. Only naval combat units can convert the control of sea hexes. Embarked land units will NOT. The supply sources that are in non-distance modified hexes will provide normal, full supply into adjacent hexes, with the standard drop offs due to terrain, et cetera. Why would one want to use a lesser supply source when a better one might be right next to it? There is a catch…
Distance hexes affect the range calculations for ranged support assets, for both the target hex and the firing unit’s hex. Thus, an air unit in a +5 hex, attacking a naval unit in a +3 hex that is 20 hexes away (by count) actually is attacking at a range of 28 hexes. This effect is, of course, more proportionally drastic given units that have shorter ranges – like artillery and ships.
Naval combat units can always attack adjacent enemy units at sea, regardless of distance modifiers. This will involve all the equipment in both attacking and target hexes. When naval units fight from non-adjacent hexes, they do so “at range” and only those pieces of equipment that are able to reach from one hex to the other, will participate in active firing (though other equipment on both sides might be targeted, during these duels). When ships fire at range, these battles are resolved like artillery battles, and no Ground Support air units will assist. However, when they are involved in adjacent hex battles, the battles are resolved like regular combats and air assets may support the battles.
So…the net effect of having both distanced hexes and non-modified hexes for the German supply is to allow the Germans the flexibility of getting an earlier supply boost, at the cost of increased exposure of their naval units to the Royal Navy, or to play it safer, and stack their forces into hexes that require the RN to engage the Kriegsmarine protected by the support umbrella offered by the Luftwaffe. Note, that as the German Army HQ’s are released from reserve (turns 2,3, and 4) they will be able to repair the rail lines in hexes adjacent to any supply source (modified distance or not) which will allow full supply to flow from these sources the length of the repaired rail line. To point out the obvious, the offshore sources must still be friendly controlled at the start of the automatic bookkeeping phase. Given British interference, this may be difficult for the Germans to maintain each turn and throughout the course of the game, particularly since the British move second. These effects are fully intended.
GERMAN PLAYER NOTES: The Ju-87 units of the Germans are extremely deadly against shipping. When the RN is caught with its units in the open sea, make ignore loss attacks against the units (within friendly fighter range, of course) with one or two units per naval unit. This is especially effective against the capital ships in the target hexes. Ignore loss attacks will burn three tactical rounds per attack, should they go the duration. This might very well affect your tactical planning for the progress on the ground, but if you don’t defeat the RN, your ground forces will wither quickly without supplies. It is a tough balancing act that you must perform – the entire game. When no RN units remain at sea from the previous turn, rest your Stukas throughout your turn, so that they are not drawn into ground attacks. Then set them on GS missions, ignore losses, before the end of the turn. Make sure that your naval units are sitting in distance modified supply hexes and if possible, base your Stukas, so that they can support the naval units, but are not drawn into land battles all along the front line, if the British player is active in attacking. You can base them closer, when his lines are primarily in static defense posture, or when (if) you can push back the lines away from the Channel supply hexes.
The possibility exists that Kriegsmarine may disappear for some portion of the game, and the Germans in England may be faced with starvation. It is fully allowed that portions of the Wehrmacht may be shipped or airlifted back to the Continent to resupply. Just keep in mind the rapidly dwindling shipping capacity will make this less effective than it might otherwise seem.
Besides the overriding logistical concern that the Germans must contend with throughout the game, they also have some very tough decisions to make on the first turn. Should they strive for a strong, shallow and wide bridgehead? Or drive deeply on a narrower front? Aim for London early and in strength, or swing to the West and try to breakout early into the flatter Midlands where their Panzers will be more effective? Should the 7th Fleiger Division be used to directly support the invasion, or should they drop deeper to create more havoc in the rear?
Bearing in mind the earlier notes about the low replacement priorities for the 7th Fleiger, the other concern is that many of the British Formations begin in Reserve. There are “tripwire” battalion units from three of these formations in and around London. Also, the SW Command has a tripwire regiment in Southampton. Unless the Germans move adjacent to, or attack any of the E Anglia Com, SW Command, or W Command units they will not come out of reserve until turn 4. Due to the turn sequence, the Germans can safely move next to any of these units on turn 3 without advancing their release. However, early deep penetrations, or airdrops may very well awaken these reserves earlier than you would like. The design concept here is that until the Panzers start landing, London was directly threatened, or in case of units running around in the rear, the British Command would not be certain that the initial invasion was not a feint, and would not denude the defenses of the island to rush pell-mell toward the first landing site.
HONOR RULES:
Neither side may voluntarily move their naval combat units into anchorage hexes, except for the cases listed below.
German naval units are not allowed to base in any German controlled, British anchorage hex. They may remain at sea, or base in any of the continental ports (French/Belgian). If driven into an British anchorage by retreating from an British naval attack on the previous turn, they must either immediately move out of the anchorage hex, if a path exists for them to leave, or make an ignore loss attack against at least one hex occupied by a British fleet unit, that is "blockading" the anchorage hex. They must continue to either attempt to move out, or make ignore loss attacks each available tactical phase until they are either destroyed, able to move out, or the turn ends.
The German Fleet, and all sea movement is restricted to those hexes which are south of the “+” marked hexes, i.e., no hex with a “+” may be entered by German naval units.
The British navy is restricted to the use of the following anchorage hexes: Birkenhead, and hex (29,4). If any British naval unit is forced into any anchorage other than those two, it must follow the same procedures as the Germans, in breaking free into the open sea. If in either of these two hexes, the British Navy is NOT under any restrictions in terms of shore bombardment.
British naval units are not otherwise restricted and can travel the entire map, and perform all missions, including airbase attacks and shore bombardment attacks against any hexes they can reach.
Disembarking of ground units and invasions are only allowed into anchorage hexes.
The 7th Fleiger Div HQ is the only HQ allowed to use air movement. All others must be transported by sea.
The scenario is intended for PBEM only.
CyberRanger
18 May 04, 13:57
Awesome, thanks Jamiam ...
Dagger5, I think we are waiting to hear from you now.
laszlo.nemedi
18 May 04, 14:16
Jamiam: Thanks, it looks like now a very interesting scenario!
Still no word from Dagger?
Great stuff, Jam. Thanks muchly for the effort you put into it!
JamIAm,
Thanks for the amazing effort in putting together this scenario! :cheeky:
Your situation briefing is also quite detailed, and provides an excellent summation of how the scenario is set up.
Although I am currently immersed in the Wintergewitter tourney with Bruce (and am finding him to be a "handful" just as in Bastogne), I can't wait to find the time to examine this scenario!
I will be gone this coming weekend, but with no reply from Dagger5, it looks like I won't be holding up the final round until I return early next week.
Game ON! :devil:
Any news on Dagger, anyone?
So, how goes the final battle(s)?
Nothing can proceed until Dagger5 checks in and commits to playing out the final round.
By the way, Mantis, since we are trying to tighten up tourney rules, what is the rule regarding appropriate response time to register to play, and for the scenario to begin.
Seems like it's been more than enough time...
CyberRanger
27 May 04, 19:46
Nothing can proceed until Dagger5 checks in ...
Seems like it's been more than enough time...
I agree. Dagger5 is MIA in this tourney and in Wintergewitter. It's time to move the #4 player into the final round.
Don't mean to cause waves - but Dagger 5 is subject to periods of
nonaccounting - occupational hazard :D
viridomaros
28 May 04, 05:22
if you have to be out of tournament for a real life reason that's fine but the minimum would be to send a mail to the tournament coordinator, the same if you think you're going to be away for a few days.
that doesn't take much time to write a mail
CyberRanger
28 May 04, 09:31
Don't mean to cause waves - but Dagger 5 is subject to periods of
nonaccounting - occupational hazard :D
I appreciate that but we can't keep the tourney on hold indefinetly.
SkyVon - are you prepared to take the #3 spot?
SkyVon was going to be away for the weekend. See the thread in the Europe Aflame subforum. Maybe you can give Dagger5 until then? Has anyone tried emailing Dagger5?
CyberRanger
28 May 04, 13:20
Has anyone tried emailing Dagger5?
Yes, repeatedly. He is also in the Wintergewitter tournament. I think we all want to be flexible to his personal/work situation but the final round was announced 3 weeks ago and he has yet to respond to the forum or any emails.
I believe giving him until the end of Memorial Day weekend (here in the US), meaning Tuesday morning, is reasonable. If we haven't heard from him by then, Skyvon gets a chance.
laszlo.nemedi
29 May 04, 04:31
I am still alive...
Sorry, I was off for awhile myself, taking care of some other things. Yes, give Dagger 'til the Tuesday, and then see if Pat can take over. Hopefully, he's just had some system troubles, and will be back on prior to that; it'd be a shame to make it 'til the end, and then not be able to play the final round! :(
I'll do it if Dagger5 cannot...but do try your best to get ahold of him as he deserves to play.
CyberRanger
31 May 04, 11:11
I'll do it if Dagger5 cannot...but do try your best to get ahold of him as he deserves to play.
I'm very relieved to have heard from Dagger5! Because of RL issues and his desire not to bog down the final round, he has requested to be removed from the War in the West tournament.
So ... Skyvon now moves into the #3 slot.
(BTW - Dagger5 is going to try to continue his Wintergewitter turns.)
Sigh...ok then; what next? I have to pick who I want to play?
Just read the first post, so I hope I have this right:
Allied - SkyVon vs Axis - JoeBob
Allied - Laszlo vs Axis - SkyVon
Allied - JoeBob vs Axis - Laszlo
And there it is!
Good luck gents; have at it!
laszlo.nemedi
01 Jun 04, 13:59
I can start on the weekend only (conference, sorry)!
Wow! :crosseye:
And so it goes...
Looks like I owe SkyVon an opening turn as Axis. Should be able to get one off this week, then I will be off on a camping trip, and returning ready to play next Tuesday.
Game ON! :surprise:
JoeBob
Any early updates, gents?
Yes...please do be brutally honest as to how the scenario plays, where you think it needs adjustment, et cetera.
laszlo.nemedi
04 Jun 04, 10:31
Yes...please do be brutally honest as to how the scenario plays, where you think it needs adjustment, et cetera.
You can expect it only if it is a disadvantage for me :D
Seriously, I cannot start yet. I try the scenario tonight (within 6 hours from now :D ), and I can give some feedback, but don't expect much as I usually accept everything from the scenario (excluding unhistorical parts).
I received turn 1 from Joe Bob the other day and plan to return the turn later today...along with sending turn 1 to Laszlo. I needed some time to look over the scenario, read the rules etc...
I did notice that the RN has two CV icons but no CV's?
I did notice that the RN has two CV icons but no CV's?
Yes...I was going to add some CV's and their air components to the RN, but encountered some problems in trying to implement this. I decided that the fix was much more troublesome than the unknown effect was worth and decided against it. Though it won't make any gameplay difference, apparently I neglected to switch back the icons... :o
Thanks!
One other thing...
There are 5 German sea hexes labeled "Ge SP" that do not have a supply in them.
Did I miss something in the scenario instructions that discuss these? :hmmm:
The supply points won't show up, until they are German controlled. As you move through them with naval combat units (NOT embarked ground units) they will become active supply points. You will need to maintain control of them through the Automatic Bookkeeping Phase, for them to be active during your German turn. Since the British move second each turn, this will necessitate stationing a Kriegsmarine unit on the actual hex(es) that you wish to use for supply, or to destroy every on map RN unit. This will force the naval units to focus on the task of defeating each other, rather than simply being offshore artillery batteries.
Did I miss something in the scenario instructions that discuss these? :hmmm:
In more detail, from the .doc file, and posted on the first page...
CRUCIAL, YET NOT ENTIRELY OBVIOUS, GAME PLAY ELEMENTS:
Supply radius for the British is 2, and for the Germans is 1. Automatic rail repair for the British starts at 2, and drops to one on turn 8. The Germans have no automatic rail repair. Both sides have rail repair squads in their Army (Germans) and High Command (British) HQ’s. Supply stockpiles are set very high in this scenario, so feel free to be as active in attacks as you like. However, as the Germans, your supply situation can go from decent to the doghouse very quickly.
German supply is handled in a completely new fashion for this scenario. The Germans must successfully contest the Channel against the British Fleet in order to feed the troops. There are no German supply points in the UK. Just offshore, there are several hexes marked “Ge SP” which are the sole sources for supply to the Germans. Some of these hexes have distance +3 borders. Some important distinctions should be made on the interplay between non-distanced and distanced hexes for both supply and combat.
Supply sources that are in distance hexes only provide minimum supply outside of their hexes, until an unbroken friendly rail line is in an adjacent, friendly controlled hex, out of an uncontested EZOC. Supply hexes that are in sea hexes WILL supply onto and through adjacent land hexes without the need for “sea roads” or other tricks. Of course, they do still need to be friendly controlled during the Automatic Bookkeeping Phase to count as a friendly supply source. Only naval combat units can convert the control of sea hexes. Embarked land units will NOT. The supply sources that are in non-distance modified hexes will provide normal, full supply into adjacent hexes, with the standard drop offs due to terrain, et cetera. Why would one want to use a lesser supply source when a better one might be right next to it? There is a catch…
Distance hexes affect the range calculations for ranged support assets, for both the target hex and the firing unit’s hex. Thus, an air unit in a +5 hex, attacking a naval unit in a +3 hex that is 20 hexes away (by count) actually is attacking at a range of 28 hexes. This effect is, of course, more proportionally drastic given units that have shorter ranges – like artillery and ships.
Naval combat units can always attack adjacent enemy units at sea, regardless of distance modifiers. This will involve all the equipment in both attacking and target hexes. When naval units fight from non-adjacent hexes, they do so “at range” and only those pieces of equipment that are able to reach from one hex to the other, will participate in active firing (though other equipment on both sides might be targeted, during these duels). When ships fire at range, these battles are resolved like artillery battles, and no Ground Support air units will assist. However, when they are involved in adjacent hex battles, the battles are resolved like regular combats and air assets may support the battles.
So…the net effect of having both distanced hexes and non-modified hexes for the German supply is to allow the Germans the flexibility of getting an earlier supply boost, at the cost of increased exposure of their naval units to the Royal Navy, or to play it safer, and stack their forces into hexes that require the RN to engage the Kriegsmarine protected by the support umbrella offered by the Luftwaffe. Note, that as the German Army HQ’s are released from reserve (turns 2,3, and 4) they will be able to repair the rail lines in hexes adjacent to any supply source (modified distance or not) which will allow full supply to flow from these sources the length of the repaired rail line. To point out the obvious, the offshore sources must still be friendly controlled at the start of the automatic bookkeeping phase. Given British interference, this may be difficult for the Germans to maintain each turn and throughout the course of the game, particularly since the British move second. These effects are fully intended.
GERMAN PLAYER NOTES: The Ju-87 units of the Germans are extremely deadly against shipping. When the RN is caught with its units in the open sea, make ignore loss attacks against the units (within friendly fighter range, of course) with one or two units per naval unit. This is especially effective against the capital ships in the target hexes. Ignore loss attacks will burn three tactical rounds per attack, should they go the duration. This might very well affect your tactical planning for the progress on the ground, but if you don’t defeat the RN, your ground forces will wither quickly without supplies. It is a tough balancing act that you must perform – the entire game. When no RN units remain at sea from the previous turn, rest your Stukas throughout your turn, so that they are not drawn into ground attacks. Then set them on GS missions, ignore losses, before the end of the turn. Make sure that your naval units are sitting in distance modified supply hexes and if possible, base your Stukas, so that they can support the naval units, but are not drawn into land battles all along the front line, if the British player is active in attacking. You can base them closer, when his lines are primarily in static defense posture, or when (if) you can push back the lines away from the Channel supply hexes.
The possibility exists that Kriegsmarine may disappear for some portion of the game, and the Germans in England may be faced with starvation. It is fully allowed that portions of the Wehrmacht may be shipped or airlifted back to the Continent to resupply. Just keep in mind the rapidly dwindling shipping capacity will make this less effective than it might otherwise seem.
In short, I would suggest that before you guys get too involved in the game, to try a few turns in hotseat, to get a feel for the naval/supply aspect of the game, as it will be the most important task to manage over the course of the game. Especially among the high caliber of players who have made it to this point in the tournament.
Good luck.
Especially among the high caliber of players who have made it to this point in the tournament.
Do you owe me money?
Do you owe me money?
Not anymore... ;)
Just sent turn 3 to Lasz and am waiting for JoeBob to return from his camping trip (only on turn 1).
I'll post some reports after all three games are sufficiently underway...I don't want to tip off my opponents with what to do's and what not to do's ;) I'm sure it would be more of the latter than the former.
laszlo.nemedi
08 Jun 04, 14:08
Just sent turn 3 to Lasz and am waiting for JoeBob to return from his camping trip (only on turn 1).
I'll post some reports after all three games are sufficiently underway...I don't want to tip off my opponents with what to do's and what not to do's ;) I'm sure it would be more of the latter than the former.
I sent Joebob my first turn but no answer yet...
And I am on turn 3 with you, jeeez, we have the same info :D
I am back from an excellent trip, and am now awash in tourney moves.
Should have moves going out in a day or two, to keep things moving.
Hard to give feedback yet, except to say "I'm scared!!!" :surprise:
I am back from an excellent trip, and am now awash in tourney moves.
Should have moves going out in a day or two, to keep things moving.
Hard to give feedback yet, except to say "I'm scared!!!" :surprise:
What are you doing reading this board then!?! :p
Agree on the scared part, after each turn I find myself asking "am I doing well or is doom around the corner?"
I am curious as to what kind of results the playtesters got...Jam?
Playtesters? What do you guys think you're doing, anyways? :D
Playtesters? Playtesters? Wee don need no steenking playtestors...
laszlo.nemedi
09 Jun 04, 01:35
Yeah many surprising effects, but I like it!
:D
Playtesters? Playtesters? Wee don need no steenking playtestors...
Great...
Will the winner of this testing receive a laurel and hardy handshake then?
Great...
Will the winner of this testing receive a laurel and hardy handshake then?
Only if Laszlo brought enough pizza (and chewing gum) for everybody... ;)
laszlo.nemedi
09 Jun 04, 11:37
Only if Laszlo brought enough pizza (and chewing gum) for everybody... ;)
Pizza :surprise: where? where? :surprise:
Oh, it was only a joke :cry:
laszlo.nemedi
09 Jun 04, 11:38
I feel this scenario is a little bit unbalanced, but I am not sure yet, so let's wait...
I feel this scenario is a little bit unbalanced, but I am not sure yet, so let's wait...
If it wouldn't be too much trouble, I'd really appreciate some saved files from this game, from each of the players. Commentary, as well, as to how it plays, et cetera. If you feel that it would be to your disadvantage within the tourney to post them in public, I would welcome email on the subject.
I will not give back any hints, or tips, to anyone corresponding with me during the tourney, other than to reemphasize reading the player notes on the naval aspect. IMO, the supply aspect for the Germans in the game will be the most crucial to manage, and it will be subject to luck, as well as the consistent, and proper management, of your support assets.
laszlo.nemedi
09 Jun 04, 11:58
you are pm-ed
Actually got off 2 moves to both SkyVon and Laszlo tonight, to try and keep things moving.
One thing I'm sure of, the behaviour of naval units in TOAW is very abstract and hard to grasp.
Both of my navies (no secrets here...), are getting trashed and seem unable to effectively counterattack. I get attacked by SkyVon with his RN, and get half of my fleet sunk, and then I use that same RN on Laszlo, and watch my fleet evap, and sink again!
I've factored in Stukas, and it doesn't seem to be a part of the equation, just ship on ship. Could just be foul luck.
Very bizarre, and hard to predict. Not necessarily a design issue just a major quirk of TOAW. Modeling naval combat is not it's high point.
Might cost me the tourney at this rate.
Oh well, whine, whine... :cry:
I am fascinated by the whole scenario, however, and understand the need to finalize the "contest" for the channel, however it can be modeled under the circumstances.
Definitely a nail-biter!
:devil:
SkyVon pointed out on the previous page that I had made a couple of RN units as CV groups, instead of Task Forces. I mistakenly replied that it wouldn't make any gameplay difference. It will.
The CV group icon reduces the range of the units to zero. While this will still allow adjacent, direct attacks, it will not allow any ranged attacks. This will deny these units the ability to shore bombard offensively, or defensively. Neither will they be able to make airfield attacks.
Please keep track of any other mistakes, as well as gameplay suggestions, throughout the tourney and give them to me as you can. I will revise the scenario based on the feedback from these games, as well as any other reports after the tourney is over.
Thanks.
Jam,
Just sent you some EOT's. I finally got caught up with all my tourney opponents - that ought to last for a day or two... :)
Anyway, I've reached turn 5 with SkyVon and 6 with Laszlo. Both guys are giving me a hard time, as expected! :angry:
The land battles are really turning into a grind, as we churn up those beautiful little British cabbage patches...and trade hexes back in forth.
It's turning into a battle of British Ales versus German Lagers. Which beer style will win? :surprise:
For those that are interested, here are some scores from my two games; perhaps Lasz or JoeBob can post their score as well.
SkyVon (axis) v Laszlo (allied)turn 5 -- Allied score of 606
SkyVon (allied) v JoeBob (axis)turn 6 -- Allied score of 597
Got some numbers for ya!
End of turn 7 as Allies (JoeBob vs Laszlo)
enemy held obj = 125
friendly held obj = 975
enemy loss penalty = 126
friendly loss penalty = 65
victory level = +911
End of turn 8 as Axis (JoeBob vs SkyVon)
enemy held obj = 800
friendly held obj = 300
enemy loss penalty = 140
friendly loss penalty = 129
victory level = -489
Both games are pretty intense... :surprise:
Sounds like you're a bit in the lead!
laszlo.nemedi
02 Jul 04, 04:33
Sounds like you're a bit in the lead!
Yeah, that's why he does marketing... :D
Ahhh hah!!!
Caught you again Laszlo, blabbing on the forums but no move to me! :p
As for marketing, the only thing I do that faintly resembles marketing is shutting off commercial electric customers for non-payment of bills. I guess it's the "pay up or else" strategy. :mad: Seems to work pretty well. It's amazing how much our utility customer's english improves when they realize the lights are about to go out, and how their "empty" wallets suddenly open up to pay their bills.
I guess you don't have to be a marketer when you are part of a monopoly... :devious:
Now where's that turn (?), I haven't got any moves all week from anyone. :cry:
Sorry JB, I've been busy with work and home life this past week...not to mention my laptop died and is in the shop so I have no fun when I'm on the road till its return.
I did get an email from Lasz saying he was busy also. I "hope" to get the turn to you this weekend :)
laszlo.nemedi
03 Jul 04, 16:08
Boys, I am just recovered from my PC crash, so I can manage turns only on Sunday... :nuts:
At turn 8 now with JB and the Allies are gaining back some ground. Half of London has been lost but Axis para's are dying faster than Clintons book sales.
The score after turn 8 is Allied SV 499 pts.
Not sure what the score of my turn 7 game vs Lasz is, but most of London has fallen and the Axis have opened a big hole east of the city and are moving north and northwest.
At turn 8 now with JB and the Allies are gaining back some ground. Half of London has been lost but Axis para's are dying faster than Clintons book sales.
:laugh:
laszlo.nemedi
16 Jul 04, 13:25
Skyvon!
I bounced again so look for the Skyvon!!!! thread for the turn...
laszlo.nemedi
16 Jul 04, 13:26
At turn 8 now with JB and the Allies are gaining back some ground. Half of London has been lost but Axis para's are dying faster than Clintons book sales.
The score after turn 8 is Allied SV 499 pts.
Not sure what the score of my turn 7 game vs Lasz is, but most of London has fallen and the Axis have opened a big hole east of the city and are moving north and northwest.
Ohhh the hole is sealed and counter attacks are in progress :p
Busy TOAW day today, with 1 move to SkyVon and 2 to Laszlo.
Gotta love it! (And I still got the lawn mowed!)
With SkyVon, I've managed to occupy roughly 1/2 of London, taken Newbury, and am threatening Bristol and Southend, and I'm at a marginal loss. Very hard to say where this game is going to go, with so much trading back and forth of real estate. (Could be some great deals on property around here after we get done...) :smoke:
With Laszlo, it's a different sort of game with me (Brits) retaining all of London, Newbury, Bristol, and Southend, but German forces threatening. Lots of trench warfare going on... As the Brits I can't wait for the clock to run out!
Both games are keeping me on my toes, and reaching for a beer!
:drink:
Any new updates? Sounds like some good tense action; perfect for a tourney final!
laszlo.nemedi
25 Jul 04, 02:53
Any new updates? Sounds like some good tense action; perfect for a tourney final!
We are at turn 13 with Joebob. The fight something like a trench war. Too much units per frontlinehex both side, so nothing interesting operational tactics, but heavy fight...
Skyvon somehow on holiday...
T14 with Laszlo...nothing much has changed, still fighting over the same terrain. Did manage to break his ring around Newbury, and Bristol and London remain unoccupied but heavily threatened.
Portsmouth has fallen, but admittedly I made little attempt to defend it.
The clock is ticking, not much time left.
No progress with SkyVon, still at T9 or so...
C'mon boyz let's try and finish this up, the whole world is waiting! (just kidding...) :clap:
Good gaming, all around!
Sent turn 10 to JB and Lasz.
In both games London is split pretty much 50/50 between the opposing forces.
Versus JB start of UK turn 9, London is almost entirely under German control. I've retaken and have held Bristol. I continue to blockcade just about the entire southern coastline but it avails me nothing. Losses have been high for both sides (Ger 163, UK 168) and the score is still an Allied Victory of around 300...soon to drop to a bit over 200 when JB takes central London next turn. Wales is still English as the front line there pretty much runs just east of Bristol then straight south.
Turn 10 vs Lasz finds the Germans now hold 4 of the 7 London hexes (incl the center) with one hex now unoccupied and the UK holding the remaing 2 in the north. Losses were quite heavy for the Brits in London this turn as many units evapped. Losses now are around 140 for each side. The Germans control all of southern England, including Plymouth and have a line running e/w just north of Bristol then cutting se to London. East of London the Axis are closing in on Ipswich, but large UK units there are slowing the advance. The score is now a draw at barely over 100 for the Allies.
Turn 12 sent to Lasz and things have quickly taken a turn for the worse for the UK. With all of London and southern England under German control, Axis forces have broken through the now thin UK lines just north of Bristol. The 4th Pz Div is now exploiting the large hole and will soon be approaching Wolverhampton from the west. Cardiff will soon be cut-off and expected to fall within the next two turns. UK forces have suffered enormous losses in and around London as many UK units have surrendered to the Axis as their avenues of retreat have all been blocked our jammed. In addition to the western breakthrough, Axis forces are now closing on Ipswich in the east and have opened a hole NNE of London and are moving west. What looks to be well over half of the remaining UK forces are about to, once again, find themselves surrounded. Current Victory Level is 391 for the Axis (MV).
Sent turn 11 to JB and am awaiting his response. There, the UK has formed a line running east west just north of London and is digging in. Plymouth is still under UK control but may not hold till the end.
CyberRanger
13 Aug 04, 15:04
Thanks for the updates!
Sounds like it's getting hairy...
viridomaros
13 Aug 04, 21:23
i hope you can beat uk like you're doing there in gs2 pat :D
good luck for both games
laszlo.nemedi
14 Aug 04, 06:41
i hope you can beat uk like you're doing there in gs2 pat :D
good luck for both games
great :o Where is your Poland turn?? :D
Just finished T17 as the Allies, and scored an OV with a victory level of 806. Laszlo finished the game, holding Plymouth, Newbury and one hex of London. Hard fought from beginning to end, Laszlo really forced me to improve my defensive game.
By keeping as many regiments as possible fortified,(and in depth), with mobile reserves to launch counterattacks and retake lost terrain, I managed to kill a lot of the Axis momentum, and keep the game to more of a WW 1, trench style game.
I also used the RN to lauch constant airfield attacks on Axis planes located in Britain, to keep them reorganizing, helping to reduce the Luftwaffe's air superiority.
Don't know if the Brits could have kept up this kind of defense forever. Have to assume that T17 amounted to some kind of historic turning point, probably political. Either a peace settlement, greater commitment by the Germans, or U.S. intervention.
In any event a fun scenario, helping to propose, and maybe answer some "what-ifs".
My only real criticism is the whole naval thing. I'm sure Jam struggled with how to handle the cross channel attack, and of course, long-term supply, and did his best to emulate the challenges. However, in all games, German control of the channel remained uncontested due to the presence of the supply hexes offshore, which when occupied, were almost impossible to dislodge the Axis naval units from. I think when a naval unit has more than 100% supply, most attacking naval units will simply evaporate when trying to attack (my experience in hotseat, and also in the game). Not sure how to best handle this, unless the Brits get a lot of Swordfish torpedo planes to try and sink the Axis units.
Jam, thanks again for your hard work on a very interesting and fun scenario.
Now on to my game with SkyVon, where the Axis controls Bristol, Newbury, all of London, and Southend, with units continuing to try and drive further inland, turning the defending Brit units into mush, and trying to play "beat the clock". Already sent SkyVon Axis T12, but he didn't get it, so now I need to try and pry the file out of my company laptop, and get it to him ASAP.
Should I post the EOT for my game with Laszlo, or wait?
JoeBob
My only real criticism is the whole naval thing. I'm sure Jam struggled with how to handle the cross channel attack, and of course, long-term supply, and did his best to emulate the challenges. However, in all games, German control of the channel remained uncontested due to the presence of the supply hexes offshore, which when occupied, were almost impossible to dislodge the Axis naval units from. I think when a naval unit has more than 100% supply, most attacking naval units will simply evaporate when trying to attack (my experience in hotseat, and also in the game). Not sure how to best handle this, unless the Brits get a lot of Swordfish torpedo planes to try and sink the Axis units.
Originally, I was going to put some Swordfish in the carrier groups (the ones that I forgot to change the icon back on - d'oh!). However, I had two problems with that. One was the OOB was giving me trouble in trying to add the other formation necessary for the Carrier planes, since I had all those pre split British units. The other thing is that I thought that the Swordfish would drastically swing the naval balance back too far into the British player's favor, based on my own tests in naval combat.
What I saw from all of the saved games that came my way was a pronounced timidity on the part of each of the British players to fully prosecute the naval battles in the first few turns (the critical ones, IMHO), and to utilize the engine behavior in this vital aspect. There are a couple of things that favor the British player, in the sea battles, and are barely offset by the defensive/supply benefits of the offshore supply/distance hexes, and the German Stukas.
First, and foremost is raw numbers. Though the Germans have the first chance to strike at the destroyer screens in the Channel on turn 1, I saw scant evidence of any of the players doing that. Given the timing issues on turn 1, this is of paramount importance to the Germans, so that the next few turns they should maintain a rough parity with the British in terms of numbers, with the Stukas giving them the slight advantage. If these attacks are not carried out by the Germans on turn 1, then (especially with the oncoming reinforcements over the next few turns) the British will have a rather sizable numerical advantage over the Kriegsmarine.
Next, the British maintain a significant replacement rate advantage over the Germans in terms of naval equipment. Given that most of the equipment that would be "lost" in battles, whether due to direct fire losses, or an ensuing evaporation, would actually go into the "on hand" amount in the players inventories, due to the high proficiency rates of the antoagonists (75% for the Brits and 80% for the Germans), the name of the game is attrition. As the British, you cannot be afraid to have your units evaporate, as long as you're doing the same to the Germans. Your units will return to the game reconstituted more readily than his, and as long as you have the last unit in the open sea at the end of the turn, you can convert the sea supply hexes, utilizing your final (in this specific situation) advantage, that of being player two.
The best way to attack the German naval units that are camping in the distance hexes is to swarm the unit with destroyers, then finishing them off toward the end of the turn with the heavier capital ship units. In the first few rounds, make minimize loss attacks against the German stacks with a *single* destroyer unit. This should only burn 1/10th of the turn. Then, followup on the next round with a different destroyer unit, also attacking on minimize loss. Another 10th of the turn will be burnt. If you're short on units, you can reuse the destroyers for followup attacks, but try to keep hitting his stacks with fresher units, to minimize the number of evaporated units. Keep this up for a few rounds, so that you can draw down his supporting Stukas into reorg, and reduce the supply and readiness of the defending German stacks. Finally, around the 40-50% remaining point, if he still has units that you need to clear, attack with some of your heavier units, on limit losses, so that you can limp back out of range, given enough of the turn remaining - after you have converted the supply hexes, that is! These heavier units will usually finish off his stacks.
Remember, don't be afraid to use, and temporarily lose, your navy as the British. If you don't at least try to destroy the Kriegsmarine, then you will find that your Navy is not of very much use, once the Panzers are ashore and the battle moves inland. There are not enough units to merely blockade all of the port hexes. You simply must take your chances at losing your navy for a few turns while it reconstitutes, in order to negate a few crucial turns of supply for the Germans earlier in the game.
Jam, thanks again for your hard work on a very interesting and fun scenario.
You're all quite welcome. I'm glad you guys gave me the feedback that you did, and shook down the scenario, in the nailbiters that you're all reporting. Great gaming, guys!
What I saw from all of the saved games that came my way was a pronounced timidity on the part of each of the British players to fully prosecute the naval battles in the first few turns (the critical ones, IMHO),
I have to agree with JB on this one. While the scenario appears to be quite balanced everywhere else, the naval aspect has been frustrating from the English side.
In my game vs JB, I wiped out most of the KM within the first two turns. The only units I couldn't eliminate were those in the distance hexes and those units stayed there for the remainder of the game. The RN was able to then to surround those units and blockade most of the ports but the Germans were still able to land, and able to disembark in any of those ports as long as they were connected to at least one open port. Thus, though the RN clearly had control of the Channel, those two KM units parked in a distance-supply hex still were able to give supply and the Germans could still land at any open port. My feeling was, at this point, what good did those early attacks do? The distance-supply hexes I had early on, I still have as Germany now has the same problem that I do in trying to remove that navy. In my game vs Lasz, the KM divided the Channel by having units between Calais and the SE tip of England. Lasz just finally broke this line and has also been unable to remove my KM in distance-supply hexes.
It's obvious, to me, that the problem lies with those distance supply hexes and the lack of UK anti-naval units. If not the Swordfish, consider the Skua of which the UK build about 200 of them...the German cruiser Koenigsberg was sunk by Skua's in 4/40.
A suggestion would be to either remove the "distance" from those hexes making them like the others and thus contestable or move them back another hex away from the port. I'm not sure if you'll need a road or not between the distance-supply hex to the port to get supply to that hex; but moving it further from the port forces the KM to defend the easily defendable DS hex and also the not so easily defendable "link" hex. Yet another suggestion would be to have key contestable hexes mid-Channel with control of each bringing an increase to fixed supply locations along the SE English coastline. Even another suggestion is to not allow the KM or RN to reconstitute and start the RN in each of the distance-supply hexes thus forcing the Germans to knock them out instead of what we have now...take a few distance supply hexes then sit tight and relax.
Control of the Channel is crucial to victory...or I thought it was?
Now that I fully understand the way things work with the navies, I would obviously have used the RN in a highly aggressive manner the first few turns. In reading the original scenario summation, I don't think I fully caught that. Didn't realize that the RN could rebuild so easily, and with RN naval units evap'ing right and left when first attacking I quickly became discouraged and used them to try and blockade ports and attack airbases.
In the next version, I think the RN should get it's flatops with a few Swordfish on board (historical feel). If the Germans think they are a big threat they can try and nail them with Stukas.
Just my 2 or 3 cents... :nuts:
Turn 12 was resent to SkyVon earlier this week. In that turn, the Germans continued to hammer away at the British lines in front of London, and finished taking Southend.
I also launched a "Guderian-style" operation in the SW of England to try and take Plymouth, with lots of airdrops, and a concerted attack by armor units, with infantry and air support. So far the operation is going well and I've already linked up with some of the paras to insure they have supply. Plymouth here we come! :ar15:
Got 5 or so turns left, so it's hard to say if I will grab anymore objectives. The game currently sits at a draw.
SkyVon, if you didn't get the move then let me know and I will post it here. :p
Gonna be tight 'til the end! That's the way a tourney *should* end!
One turn to go with JB and the front has pretty much stalled just north of London. Score is around -200 for the Allied (Draw). I did manage some counter-attacks and am threatening a huge envelopment...though I doubt I'll hold my gains.
With three turns to go against Laszlo, the score is around 750 (OV) for the Axis who have broken through UK lines in the east and west. I'm sure Lasz still has a few tricks up his sleeve that will knock me back.
As it appears that I won't be able to top JB's 1,000 pts, let me be the first to congratulate JB on winning the tournament!
:hurray:
Gents,
Thanks again for the honor of being allowed to revise a scenario for your use in the tourney. I'm glad that you all had to burn some brain cells in eeking out your various victories and draws. Also, I'm glad to have received the feedback on the scenario. If you could, please send me the end of game peek files so that I can see what progress was made by each of the players, casualties taken, etc. Additional feedback is welcome, including any AAR's from your games. You may make them here, or in private, if you wish.
Jam, we are the ones who should be thanking you for creating this scenario. If nothing else, it proved to be very well balanced. :)
laszlo.nemedi
02 Sep 04, 08:41
One turn to go with JB and the front has pretty much stalled just north of London. Score is around -200 for the Allied (Draw). I did manage some counter-attacks and am threatening a huge envelopment...though I doubt I'll hold my gains.
With three turns to go against Laszlo, the score is around 750 (OV) for the Axis who have broken through UK lines in the east and west. I'm sure Lasz still has a few tricks up his sleeve that will knock me back.
As it appears that I won't be able to top JB's 1,000 pts, let me be the first to congratulate JB on winning the tournament!
:hurray:
OK, I will hurry my turns, but I cannot garantee miracle on my side :D
Both game was an exciting experience, and showed me that there is so much to learn, both player were very good (better than me :cry: ).
Yup, we all owe James for helping us out of our bind, and reworking that scenario for us.
Thanks again, James! Booze's on me in the OC!
:hail:
Well, T17 as Axis has been sent to SkyVon. Gave it all I got since this is the last turn. Unless there is a secret variable ending I missed.... :surprise:
Came amazingly close to taking Norwich, but his home guard units fortified in the city saved the day.
I did manage to inflict heavy casualties on nearby stacks of units with lots of evaps due to mini-encirclements. Also killed off his prize amored division that had the audacity to penetrate my lines last turn.
After 4 turns of trying to break out of Bristol, I was once again stopped by the same armor battalion (fortified), and unwilling to give ground despite being hammered by THREE panzer divisions.
Exciting end to a great scenario. Thanks again for a fun scenario Jam!!! :D
I think all final EOT's for the three games should be posted here to allow all players (and Jam) to check them out in detail. Each game had an entirely different set of results.
Once the tourney is over I look forward to providing more detail about some possible tweaks.
Ball is in your court SkyVon, game is almost wrapped up now. :smoke:
Can't wait to head over to the OC, and have a few brewskies once it's over! I think this tourney has taken about a year to play out now...
:cheeky:
laszlo.nemedi
03 Sep 04, 04:50
Yup, we all owe James for helping us out of our bind, and reworking that scenario for us.
Thanks again, James! Booze's on me in the OC!
:hail:
Yeah! James, my PM in the beginning was maybe right, but as Brit I could manage to contradict myself :D .
Maybe I would not be so attacker as Brit in the beginning :o
The game vs JB is over...
The largest UK unit on the map finally earned its stripes and made several attacks north of London with good results. Losses were heavy for the Axis in this final turn with the UK forces desperatly trying to retake ground.
Final score is:
UK help obj: 450
German held obj: 650
UK losses: 240
German losses: 228
Final Allied Victory Level of -212 for a DRAW.
Barring the complete destruction of UK forces (in 2 turns) in my game versus Laszlo, JB will win this tournament, and deservedly so :)
For those that are interested, attacked is the final .sav file.
The game vs JB is over...
The largest UK unit on the map finally earned its stripes and made several attacks north of London with good results. Losses were heavy for the Axis in this final turn with the UK forces desperatly trying to retake ground.
Final score is:
UK help obj: 450
German held obj: 650
UK losses: 240
German losses: 228
Final Allied Victory Level of -212 for a DRAW.
Barring the complete destruction of UK forces (in 2 turns) in my game versus Laszlo, JB will win this tournament, and deservedly so :)
For those that are interested, attacked is the final .sav file.
Great game, guys! It was less than 10 points away from a German Marginal Victory, with Norwich being the obvious and immediate key objective for the victory level change. Those last couple of turns must have been an adrenaline rush, trying to take/hold the city.
The losses and replacement rates look about right to me, based on my own preferred style of play. Most every unit is down to about 25-50% of authorized TO&E, after the end of a full (and obviously, very aggressively fought) campaign.
Now...if I didn't have those two empty carrier units staring me in the face... :o
:banana:
I'm still not convinced that SkyVon can't win this tourney. Oh so close to grabbing Norwich!!! :nuts:
Anyway, here is the final EOT for the game with Laszlo, previously concluded.
Maybe SkyVon and Laszlo will finish by this weekend? Then when I leave for Kauai next week I won't be left pondering... :cool:
Snorkel ON!!!
Yech! Too many green tagged units there! I want to see more fighting! This is a desperate war of survival that we're recreating here. Not a Sunday holiday at the Cliffs of Dover!
At this stage of the game, there shouldn't be any units near the 70-150% supply levels that I saw.
laszlo.nemedi
04 Sep 04, 06:36
I'll do my turn today!
laszlo.nemedi
04 Sep 04, 07:35
I'll do my turn today!
Done
Just sent turn 17 (final?) to Laszlo. I was able to take a few objectives this turn but I expect to lose some of those gains to Laszlo's counter-attacks.
laszlo.nemedi
07 Sep 04, 13:47
Just sent turn 17 (final?) to Laszlo. I was able to take a few objectives this turn but I expect to lose some of those gains to Laszlo's counter-attacks.
Well I was quick :D
I could recapture most of the city which was captured Pat last turn.
Significant defeat on my side.
So I am surely on the third place, but not really know the real numbers, please help someone :nuts:
Laszlo v SkyVon - Final Score
Allied Held Obj - 325
Axis Held Obj - 775
Allied Losses - 253
Axis Losses - 198
Axis Significant Victory 505 pts
Notes: The game, for me, took a drastic turn towards risky play after I learned of JB's huge victory. Now I had to make rapid advances without properly covering my flanks which allowed Laszlo to (with his numerous re-con'd units) surround my advance units and cut-off their supply...and on a couple of occasions, to evap them! You'll see on the map several units that suffered this fate still far from friendly forces. If I had another two turns, the bulk of the English army would have been wiped out as the UK forces around Coventry and Norwich were doomed.
This was an enjoyable tournament and I would like to thank MANTIS, WESTPOINTER for running this monster...I owe you both a tall cold one :)
A note to Jam; I would suggest some serious replacement hits to the UK as the Axis capture certain areas. The constant re-con of Allied units is what save England and I'm not so sure the manpower would be available after more than half the country was under Axis control...just a thought.
CyberRanger
07 Sep 04, 14:55
Spectacular finish!
The final results then are:
1. JoeBob
2. SkyVon
3. Laszlo.Nemedi
Is that correct, gents?
Congrats, JoeBob! Excellent finish!
Good job to all of you for placing so well, and I hope everyone that participated in the tourney enjoyed the friendly competition!
laszlo.nemedi
09 Sep 04, 15:26
Spectacular finish!
The final results then are:
1. JoeBob
2. SkyVon
3. Laszlo.Nemedi
Is that correct, gents?
On my side surely :OHNO: Congrats boys, it was a heavy fight!
Wow, it's over!!! :nuts:
Been some great gaming that's for sure. I might be a little "biased" but these elimination tourneys are kinda cool.
Thanks to all my opponents for forcing me to improve on my game, and teaching me (the hard way), what not to do...
And yes, I have to say, definitely a friendly competition, and an excellent opportunity, as always, to interact with gamers from around the globe.
Will SkyVon or Laszlo be posting their EOT? I'm curious to make comparisons.
Good job JamIam, Mantis and WestPointer for all your hard work with the tourney! :thumup:
Now it's off for a week in Kauai to "relax" from all this tough wargaming. :cool:
So....when's the next tourney???!!! :D
I've already got some things in the works in that regard... ;)
I thought the elimination tourney was a nice change as well; it gives a better chance to shake things up and have some different pairings!
ER_Chaser
20 Sep 04, 17:11
OH MY GOD! ... I did not even noticed the great event's end! What a sin!
:devil:
Congratulations! Gentlemen! To the unmatched Champion as well as all the participants alike!
And in particular, to Laszlo, hey, you did great, buddy! I feel doubly happy for your success because your standing convinced me that I did the right thing :)
When will all the participants get their ladder bonus?
How about posting that last turn EOT from the SkyVon and Laszlo game?
Curiosity...
And ya, I think there are some ladder bonuses coming. I just checked out the ladder and I don't think they've been applied yet.
laszlo.nemedi
21 Sep 04, 10:44
OH MY GOD! ... I did not even noticed the great event's end! What a sin!
:devil:
Congratulations! Gentlemen! To the unmatched Champion as well as all the participants alike!
And in particular, to Laszlo, hey, you did great, buddy! I feel doubly happy for your success because your standing convinced me that I did the right thing :)
khmm, khmmm, I would like to thank ER_Chaser for his effort to beat me in games, to achive such a high rank in this tourney.
And I would like to thank Jamiam and MikeJ who showed me the feeling of a looser...
I would like to thank... ...Oh I am just the third one so I won't get any Oscar... :OHNO:
laszlo.nemedi
21 Sep 04, 10:44
How about posting that last turn EOT from the SkyVon and Laszlo game?
Curiosity...
And ya, I think there are some ladder bonuses coming. I just checked out the ladder and I don't think they've been applied yet.
Try to if I find it... :rolleyes:
ER_Chaser
21 Sep 04, 11:06
khmm, khmmm, I would like to thank ER_Chaser for his effort to beat me in games, to achive such a high rank in this tourney.
And I would like to thank Jamiam and MikeJ who showed me the feeling of a looser...
I would like to thank... ...Oh I am just the third one so I won't get any Oscar... :OHNO:
LoL ... nah, it is not Oscar... it is more like Mr. Universe, so you are at least like Mr. Europe or something :)
LoL ... nah, it is not Oscar... it is more like Mr. Universe, so you are at least like Mr. Europe or something :)
How about just Mr. Hungary.
And for Mr. Hungary, we have this wonderful Pizza.
laszlo.nemedi
21 Sep 04, 15:44
How about just Mr. Hungary.
And for Mr. Hungary, we have this wonderful Pizza.
Pizza :surprise: where, where ??
As for Mr.Hungary or Mr Europe, I would prefer some girls to declare that, sorry Jam and ER :D
ER_Chaser
21 Sep 04, 17:27
I knew it ... only at the 3rd place and already asking so much (pizza, hotties, beers.. .etc... ) ... what would our Mr. Universe, JB and Mr. Earth (Skyvon) ask for?
I knew it ... only at the 3rd place and already asking so much (pizza, hotties, beers.. .etc... ) ... what would our Mr. Universe, JB and Mr. Earth (Skyvon) ask for?
I wish for the Oakland Raiders to slaughter Tampa Bay on Sunday, to wipe out the Patriots in the playoffs, to advance to the Superbowl (again), and actually win it by a large margin. :coolban:
You meant "wish" right? :whist:
If the above wish cannot be granted, I'll settle for a LOT of money. Got some big bills sitting on my desk...
ER_Chaser
22 Sep 04, 01:56
I wish for the Oakland Raiders to slaughter Tampa Bay on Sunday, to wipe out the Patriots in the playoffs, to advance to the Superbowl (again), and actually win it by a large margin. :coolban:
You meant "wish" right? :whist:
If the above wish cannot be granted, I'll settle for a LOT of money. Got some big bills sitting on my desk...
LoL ... Don is going to have a huge bill to pay ... (I guess Laszlo's call for hotties would probably bankrupt him already, and now ... these entire NFL teams to bribe ... :D )..
:devil:
I wish for the Oakland Raiders to slaughter Tampa Bay on Sunday, to wipe out the Patriots in the playoffs, to advance to the Superbowl (again), and actually win it by a large margin. :coolban:
I'd just settle for a local football team. Second largest TV market in the country and no team? :confused:
I guess that in the event that JB is unable to fulfill his duties as tournament champion I get to take his place? Stay safe, JB :rifle:
Yee-Haw :horse:
Mantis, where are our bonus points? I'm starring at that O-Club door :D
I'll have to talk to Brent about that and get back to you guys. We won't forget your points, no worries!
laszlo.nemedi
24 Sep 04, 11:00
...
I guess that in the event that JB is unable to fulfill his duties as tournament champion I get to take his place? Stay safe, JB :rifle:
Yee-Haw :horse:
Mantis, where are our bonus points? I'm starring at that O-Club door :D
And if you two cannot fulfill your duties when I take your place? :D
Laszlo will be immediately assasinated (SkyVon and I have already made arrangements...), and a NEW tourney will be forced to begin ASAP! :laugh:
laszlo.nemedi
25 Sep 04, 14:58
I think we will let this thread alive until we get the bonus points :)
The squeeky wheel, gets the grease.
Or, in Laszlo's case, the greasy pizza gets the cheese... :laugh:
The squeeky wheel, gets the grease.
Or, in Laszlo's case, the greasy pizza gets the cheese... :laugh:
I thought it’s the sloppy goulash gets the girl :D
LoL...or the sloppy girl gets the...oh nevermind! :hush:
Dicke Bertha
25 Sep 04, 18:11
Will this tourney be presented to the rest of us non-participants in a reader's digest format? Sure want to play Panzerpelle's scenario soon, seems great. And congratulations to JoeBob for the great win against such determined opponents! Is a torney win extra plus on officer promotion!!?? Should be!
I think we will let this thread alive until we get the bonus points :)
And either SkyVon or Laszlo posts their EOT save file... :nuts:
Ok, I'm doing the bonus points as we speak, and will make periodic comments here as required.
To start, Redstorm, I need you to join the TOAW ladder so I can add your bonus points!
Dagger5 - join the ladder!
DeconMan - join the ladder!
Hawkeye, Antoni34, Brevet, John Paul, Sergeant Major, Touchdown, Faramir, join the ladder, boys!
All other reports are now processed - if there are any issues, or if you haven't received your points, please contact me, and I'll get it straightened out for you!
I'm going to sticky this thread for a few days, to make sure everyone has a chance to see it!
Ah! One more thing: If you are one of the people that I mentioned needs to join the ladder, please contact me (use a PM or email, whichever you prefer), and let me know that you have done so, and I'll add in your bonus points!
Shane...a bunch of those people that you listed are already on the ladder. For example, I remember seeing Brevet, Dagger5, Chuck, and Redstorm, at least, on there.
You can see reports and such on them, but they are not appearing in the dropdown menu that I use to add in the tourney points. I'll have a peek at this later tonite...
Ahh...I see. Now, I have to take care of the welcoming committee for another new officer. Looks like the bonus points pushed LaPalice into the OC.
Oh girls...who wants to entertain a Frenchman?
That's the beauty of the OC girls; they're always ready! ;)
And yes, a quick glance earlier showed me that they aren't on the new WARS ladder yet. Couldn't find them in the report a game link, and that's the primary indication of whether or not someone has joined.
CyberRanger
25 Oct 04, 06:47
That's the beauty of the OC girls; they're always ready! ;)
And yes, a quick glance earlier showed me that they aren't on the new WARS ladder yet. Couldn't find them in the report a game link, and that's the primary indication of whether or not someone has joined.
Let me know who you still need to join and I'll manually sign them up.
CyberRanger
26 Oct 04, 23:23
Hawkeye, Antoni34, Brevet, John Paul, Sergeant Major, Touchdown, Faramir, join the ladder, boys!
All other reports are now processed - if there are any issues, or if you haven't received your points, please contact me, and I'll get it straightened out for you!
I'm going to sticky this thread for a few days, to make sure everyone has a chance to see it!
I've joined all these except Antoni34. There are 3 users that seem to all be him; going to sort that out.
No bonus points added in for these people?
(I'll do it tomorrow if that's the case).
CyberRanger
27 Oct 04, 06:01
No bonus points added in for these people?
No, I only "joined" them to the TOAW ladder. :p
:laugh: Ok, I just asked you on the other thread because I didn't see the question, and thought I'd forgotten to mention it. So just disregard it, lol.
Brent, I've completed adding in all the bonus points. (Except for Antoni). There are two accounts for Chuck, however. If you take a peek, can you please be sure that the account he retains has the bonus points I've just added?
Thanks!
(Are you receiving the reports twice, Brent? Your in the To: field as well as down for a CC...)
CyberRanger
28 Oct 04, 21:07
Brent, I've completed adding in all the bonus points. (Except for Antoni). There are two accounts for Chuck, however. If you take a peek, can you please be sure that the account he retains has the bonus points I've just added?
Thanks!
(Are you receiving the reports twice, Brent? Your in the To: field as well as down for a CC...)
I'll try to figure out the accounts for Chuck and Antoni. I only received the emails once, nice that the mailer was smart enough not to send it twice. I've removed myself from the "To" field.
Un-sticking this tourney. Nice battles men!
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