View Full Version : Could you try this, My Protest Against Point 34 of TOAW III patch
Dear TOAW III lovers :nuts:
Use the TOAW III with the last patch:devious:
open by instance the Bob Cross 1944 D-Day as allies:D
Go to an Allies embarked units stack, declare an attack , then with the window to manage a battle click on an embarked unit, then unclick on and try to click again on this unit? :eek:
Your conclusions ?:cry:
Am I crazzy? Is there not here a strange behavior :(
I Emailed James and Ralph about it and wait for their answers :surprise:
Der WanderStrangeYouSayStrange:rolleyes:
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The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a ███ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
To get news on the Birth of European Army Tournament round one & two, clich here -> Results on 05/17/2007 (http://www.gamesaquad.com/toaw/?p=67)
See item 34 in the Whatsnew.
"Canceling an attack while at sea now zeros movement points. (This was the COW behavior.) The other
behavior allowed for infinite sea transports by attacking and canceling an attack."
I mentioned this over at Matrix already, JL.
Thread (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1570671)
While I am glad that the cheat has been removed, I was somewhat bummed at the implementation of the cheat prevention (though, not, of course, angry in any way at Ralph or James). In the end, it would appear that Ralph and james will be 'fine-tuning' this in future patches, which I was veryglad to hear.
That said, given that the expected behavior of the program has changed significantly with this feature, it could be argued that the restrictions it imposes are overly burdensome. I can somewhat agree with this point of view. Therefore, we will try to fine tune this better for future patches so that the flexibility of planning that normal ground combats have is restored somewhat to the use of sea invading forces. At least until we start making sea hexes "stickier"...
See item 34 in the Whatsnew.
"Canceling an attack while at sea now zeros movement points. (This was the COW behavior.)
COW behavior ????
When I set an attack from the sea with "2004:operation lion de mer" under ACOW, set or unset an attack from attack window, do not remove the capacity to attack.
This is for me a killing criteria. Look at EA where the landing operations are so important, a bad mouse click and you loose a capacity to land !!! Your opponent has just the pleasure to poor aircrafts or naval units upon it to destroy this unfortunately still embarked unit.
Does it worth the price to correct a sea move bug.
Veers quote your answer from Matrix. I read it, even between lines. You saw it was a real big problem.
You are right it kills the spirit of the game, and make sea assault operations unpredictable. You can't manage the rhythm of you assault waves.
Are you even sure that after an attack your units can move to the assaulted hex ????
Think of all those scenarios which implies sea assaulting and which are now totally distorted.
Was it so difficult to say as soon as assault is open you can't enter sea hex as normal unit can't enter sea hexes or cross major rivers?. And if it was so difficult, it would have been better not to include it.
You know me I've not the habit to make fuss, but here I'm really upset.
I'm near the process to stop my EA game with KoK or put it on hold until the removal or the correction of what I consider as a betrayal of the TOAW Spirit.
I deeply protest, this "bug correction" is a mistake which has not to be included in this patch
Der WanderTotalyUnpleased
_______________________
The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a ███ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
To get news on the Birth of European Army Tournament round one & two, clich here -> Results on 05/17/2007 (http://www.gamesaquad.com/toaw/?p=67)
To be constructive
Why not set/define a rule that all sea hexes just near anchorage, if you enter them you can't leave them, except by land. Entering them imply that you want nothing else than making sea assault.
This rule apply to anchorage owned by your opponent, obvious !!!
Der WanderNoToPoint34
____________________
The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a ███ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
To get news on the Birth of European Army Tournament round one & two, clich here -> Results on 05/17/2007 (http://www.gamesaquad.com/toaw/?p=67)
To be constructive
Why not set/define a rule that all sea hexes just near anchorage, if you enter them you can't leave them, except by land. Entering them imply that you want nothing else than making sea assault.
This rule apply to anchorage owned by your opponent, obvious !!!
Der WanderNoToPoint34
While it would seem a simple enough idea. It would be just a detrimental as the current action, as many, many, many, times you have to go past an enemy anchorage hex to get to your destination. This would happen often in EA, for example.
As for the 'engine behavior', itself. It appears that James/Ralph and company are going to 'fine-tune' the behavior. So, while I agree, it is a very difficult thing to live with for now, I am confident that it will be 'changed' soon. I have also conducted a successful amphibious assault since its implementation, so units can enter a hex that tthey have assaulted, so no worries there.
I would expect that it will be fixed soon, but they are busy and it may be the best thing to pause any games that you have with opponents that require large ammounts of amphibious assaults until it is fixed. Otherwise you may just want to confer with your opponent and allow 'reload messages', so that if you do mess up an amphib op you can reload an earlier save to fix it, of course, youd have to save often for this, as well.
The most important thing to keep in mind, however, is that it appears this new 'engine behavior' will be modified.
COW behavior ????
When I set an attack from the sea with "2004:operation lion de mer" under ACOW, set or unset an attack from attack window, do not remove the capacity to attack.
My fault on the poor editing job of Ralph's change list description. I should have stricken the COW reference, as it is not entirely true.
This is for me a killing criteria. Look at EA where the landing operations are so important, a bad mouse click and you loose a capacity to land !!! Your opponent has just the pleasure to poor aircrafts or naval units upon it to destroy this unfortunately still embarked unit.
Yeah, because we know that no naval invasion ever had to worry about being attacked, while embarked at sea, by the enemy...right?
Just kidding, but you shouldn't be the only one having fun with the hyperbole...:devious:
Does it worth the price to correct a sea move bug.
Yes. Be more careful. At least until we fix it better for the next patch...
Veers quote your answer from Matrix. I read it, even between lines. You saw it was a real big problem.
You are right it kills the spirit of the game, and make sea assault operations unpredictable. You can't manage the rhythm of you assault waves.
Yes, you can. You just have to look at the units, without blindly clicking on them. Then, AFTER deciding what to attack with, you then assign them to the attack.
Did Eisenhower get to change his mind for the assault waves, after getting to Normandy and then cancel his assaults and reassign the CW to Omaha and Utah, and the US to Sword, Juno, and Gold?
Sorry for the inconvenience, but just pay attention to what you're doing for the next few months, until the next patch makes it more user friendly.
Think of all those scenarios which implies sea assaulting and which are now totally distorted.
Totally distorted? I think that's a bit of an overreaction, personally. It's a documented change in the user interface. I'm sorry it bit you in the ass, because you didn't read the change list.
Was it so difficult to say as soon as assault is open you can't enter sea hex as normal unit can't enter sea hexes or cross major rivers?. And if it was so difficult, it would have been better not to include it.
Huh?
You know me I've not the habit to make fuss, but here I'm really upset.
I'm near the process to stop my EA game with KoK or put it on hold until the removal or the correction of what I consider as a betrayal of the TOAW Spirit.
Betrayal of the TOAW Spirit? That's rather harsh, don't you think? We plugged a serious exploit. We may have shoved too big a cork in the bottle, but how is that betraying the TOAW Spirit?
I deeply protest, this "bug correction" is a mistake which has not to be included in this patch
However, it is in the patch, and it won't be changed until the next one. You have been informed of the engine behavior, and have been instructed on how to avoid the worst aspect of it. To stop playing and to throw a public tantrum over it, instead of simply being more careful in how you assign your forces, is again, in my opinion, an overreaction to a very minor irritation.
Respectfully,
James
Yes, you can. You just have to look at the units, without blindly clicking on them. Then, AFTER deciding what to attack with, you then assign them to the attack.
How to know how much time they will consume without clicking on them ?
I remember in the previous version a sea assault made by Italian and German leaving from the same harbor one used 4 gold the other 6 !!!
Did Eisenhower get to change his mind for the assault waves, after getting to Normandy and then cancel his assaults and reassign the CW to Omaha and Utah, and the US to Sword, Juno, and Gold?
To avoid misunderstanding
it is not question to leave the attacked anchorage for an other one but, if a unit use 3 golden square and an other 5, I will begin to launch attack with the 3 golden one probably at minimize loss, then on next round, both will attack at full strengh. But now I'm unable to manage my assaults this way as if I unclick the second unit to let the 1st one to conduct assault, it will loose its capacity to attack.:eek:
And how to know how much round a unit will burn without clicking on it !!!!:nuts: (snake eating its tail)
It is why I say It is a betrayal of the spirit of the game
Sorry for the inconvenience, but just pay attention to what you're doing for the next few months, until the next patch makes it more user friendly.
Fun :(
Totally distorted? I think that's a bit of an overreaction, personally. It's a documented change in the user interface. I'm sorry it bit you in the ass, because you didn't read the change list.
I read it but I do not think it worked like that or behaved like that in the attack window which is for me a war room where you can prepare quietly your fights
Betrayal of the TOAW Spirit? That's rather harsh, don't you think? We plugged a serious exploit. We may have shoved too big a cork in the bottle, but how is that betraying the TOAW Spirit?
I gave my point of view in previous paragraph
However, it is in the patch, and it won't be changed until the next one. You have been informed of the engine behavior, and have been instructed on how to avoid the worst aspect of it. To stop playing and to throw a public tantrum over it, instead of simply being more careful in how you assign your forces, is again, in my opinion, an overreaction to a very minor irritation.
Sorry James but it is not so minor,
You can't no more manage your attacks from sea, as I explained before (sorry I'm stubborn) because as soon as you click on a unit and what ever the bad surprise is, you can't go back.
For me now sea landings are now a pure random action even before to launch attacks as you can't undo the order in which assaulting units will enter the fight.
To be extremist I can see sea attack as a possible full turn consuming action
Respectfully,
James
Remember I'm here to expose something I do not agree with, but in no case to make personal attacks against you or Ralph.
Friendly thoughts,
JL BETIN
How to know how much time they will consume without clicking on them ?
I remember in the previous version a sea assault made by Italian and German leaving from the same harbor one used 4 gold the other 6 !!!
Your invasions will ALWAYS launch at the 50% remaining phase, or later. If you need to find out at which tactical round they will launch at, anything with greater than 50% of their original full movement will launch on the 5th tactical round. Anything with less than 50% of their full movement can easily be calculated by finding the proportion of movement points left of their original movement allowance for the turn. That information is in the unit information pane in the upper right corner. For example, say you have 43 of 100 MP's remaining, then your attack is going to launch in the 6th tactical round. If you have 17 of 63 MP's remaining, then your attack will launch in the 7th tactical round. The formula for the round that the attack will launch in is:
R = [(1 - MPr/MPo)*10], rounded to nearest integer, where R is in the set {5,6,7,8,9,10}, MPr is remaining Movement Points, and MPo is the original Movement Allowance.
Do you need to make this calculation all the time? No. You should be able to do this rather instinctively most the time, by simple proportions. You can also use the guideline that all units are going to have their remaining MP's reduced to the proportion remaining after the last combat anyhow, and so if only 40 remains after the last combat series, and your embarked units have 40 remaining, then they will not delay any follow-up waves.
For years, I've hardly ever used the attack planner to calculate which round units will attack on, and relied on the quick "proportional" estimation by glancing at the "x of y" MP's shown in the unit panel.
If you're playing EA, then this should be made all the easier since any fully supplied unit moving by sea will have a movement allowance of 100 MP's. It's pretty elementary to calculate proportions with those numbers.
To avoid misunderstanding
it is not question to leave the attacked anchorage for an other one but, if a unit use 3 golden square and an other 5, I will begin to launch attack with the 3 golden one probably at minimize loss, then on next round, both will attack at full strengh. But now I'm unable to manage my assaults this way as if I unclick the second unit to let the 1st one to conduct assault, it will loose its capacity to attack.:eek:
You've never been able to do that, so we're hardly taking away something you've never had. If you launch an attack with embarked units, and it fails to take the hex, the movement points were zeroed out. This is how it always was.
And how to know how much round a unit will burn without clicking on it !!!!:nuts: (snake eating its tail)
You never knew how much time an attack would burn before - only when it was going to start. I've given you the workaround above. Sorry if it adds any tedium or micromanagement to the task of playing TOAW III, but until we put out another patch, this is what you'll need to do, if you insist on micromanaging and fine-tuning the timing of your amphibious assaults.
I read it but I do not think it worked like that or behaved like that in the attack window which is for me a war room where you can prepare quietly your fights
I understand, which is why we've already stated that we will fix it. However, it will have to wait. We're not going to push out a fix for just this one issue. It will have to wait until the next patch.
Sorry James but it is not so minor,
I disagree. See above.
You can't no more manage your attacks from sea,
Yes, you can. See above.
as I explained before (sorry I'm stubborn)
Yes, you are, but I love you anyway...in a manly sort of way, that is...:laugh:
...because as soon as you click on a unit and what ever the bad surprise is, you can't go back.
Then don't set the unit to attack, until you have paused and thought about the consequences for about 5 seconds.
For me now sea landings are now a pure random action even before to launch attacks as you can't undo the order in which assaulting units will enter the fight.
They are no more "random" than before. You just have to tiptoe around the interface more than you used to. I know it's a pain in the ass, if that's not what you're used to, but a necessary evil at this moment in time.
To be extremist I can see sea attack as a possible full turn consuming action
No more than before, if you exercise a modicum of forethought.
Remember I'm here to expose something I do not agree with, but in no case to make personal attacks against you or Ralph.
Friendly thoughts,
I understand your concern and agree that the feature is poorly implemented. Just exercise some patience, and planning, and you'll find that things will work correctly.
And that's the end of that. :D Right, guys? :D
It sucks, but it'll get fixed. :hurray:
From discussion comes light
Der WanderMustThinkTwiceBeforeClickingUntilNextPatch
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The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a ███ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
To get news on the Birth of European Army Tournament round one & two, clich here -> Results on 05/17/2007 (http://www.gamesaquad.com/toaw/?p=67)
Killorbekilled
12 Oct 07, 13:37
Jean-Luc - if you've messed up your whole turn with a mouse click, then just re-do the turn. I don't mind. It's not fair to have your turn ruined for a technical interface error...
Jean-Luc - if you've messed up your whole turn with a mouse click, then just re-do the turn. I don't mind. It's not fair to have your turn ruined for a technical interface error...
Thanks, turn will come soon, as after the motherborard it is now the power supply of my daughter which is out of order !!!!
Der WanderVeryBuzzyTheseDays
___________________________
The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a ███ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
To get news on the Birth of European Army Tournament round one & two, clich here -> Results on 05/17/2007 (http://www.gamesaquad.com/toaw/?p=67)
Thanks, turn will come soon, as after the motherborard it is now the power supply of my daughter which is out of order !!!!
It is going worse than expected her HD is dead, she has lost all her data
Lot of tears at home
Der WanderVeryBuzzyTheseDays
___________________________
The Best weapon ever:a good Joke. The Best shield ever: Humour
JLBETIN© Aka Der Wanderer TOAW Section Leader is a ███ WHQ/SZO/XG/Gamesquad® product since 01/2003
To get news on the Birth of European Army Tournament round one & two, clich here -> Results on 05/17/2007 (http://www.gamesaquad.com/toaw/?p=67)
It is going worse than expected her HD is dead, she has lost all her data
Lot of tears at home
Der WanderVeryBuzzyTheseDays
OUCH! My condolences.
It is going worse than expected her HD is dead, she has lost all her data
Lot of tears at home
Der WanderVeryBuzzyTheseDays
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RIP - happened to me a few months back - thank goodness for a good backup schedule (and my normal geek-tude...) and a local parts store.
...until the spring when I can build teh Motha of All Killa Rigz...:devious:
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