View Full Version : The War
Has anyone been following this on PBS? I was just able to catch an episode tonight, and I must say, it is probably one of the impressionable documentaries I have seen on World War Two, or any war for that matter. It's like watching a very good book on TV. There is a TON of footage that I have never seen before, and Im sure(just like many of you) have seen quite a bit of footage of the war, but a ton of it is completely new to me. It's spellbinding and somewhat awe-inspiring to watch it.
P.S. It's commercial free from what I can tell.
It's more disjointed and less comprehensive that Burns' prior efforts concerning the Civil War and baseball. He does not tell the [a?] story as well as he did in the other two.
Parts of it are quite good. Last night's installment was the best so far. But all-in-all it's at least a step below his prior efforts.
It's more disjointed and less comprehensive... . But all-in-all it's at least a step below his prior efforts.
I agree, the "high" points are excellent but the lows have me channel surfing waiting for the doc to get moving again.
Ahh, well I guess it depends on what you are looking for in the show then. I think it's a great idea on what he is doing and what he is covering.
The series was certainly worth watching. There is without doubt a strong bond among those of the Greatest Generation that includes my parents, uncles, aunts, neighbors and the friends of all of them. Perhaps it is a different perspective that I have being a generation closer to the events than are you.
If you have interest in the Civil War or baseball, I strongly recommend that you also view those series by Burns.
The series was certainly worth watching. There is without doubt a strong bond among those of the Greatest Generation that includes my parents, uncles, aunts, neighbors and the friends of all of them. Perhaps it is a different perspective that I have being a generation closer to the events than are you.
If you have interest in the Civil War or baseball, I strongly recommend that you also view those series by Burns.
There is no doubt about that bond at all between them. I'm kinda curious as to what you and maybe others are looking for in the show?
It seemed to me that the series couldn't decide whether is was primarily about the war and guys who fought it, or the home front during the war. The story line in both areas were often disjointed.
I would have preferred more on the war and the folks fighting it. In that regard there were too few story tellers and too many gaps in the narrative of the war. Band of Brothers had many more tellers of the tale and the scope was minuscule compared to all of World War II.
The same is true on the home front. Plus no major city was featured. Attempting to cover the home front and not including places and people of San Diego, New York, Detroit, or Chicago (just to name a few) was a weakness. Instead Burns went with small to medium size towns/cities, one the the NE, one from the upper Midwest, one from the (far) west and one from the deep south.
In sum I would say that this series did not tell any story as well as those in Burns' Civil War and baseball works. It appears that this is because he spread himself too thin; had huge gaps in the story; reached too far in trying to adequately cover both the war and the home front; and as a result the flow of the series was often disjointed and not always well cobbled together. Of course in large part this is judging Burns against the high standards reflected in his earlier work.
Imo, I think the series did fine in bringing home the war to people in today's generation that have little clue as to the kind of impact it has had on our society and the Ken Burns did an excellent job in bringing these stories to use on TV. I'm personally not critiquing based on his past films(which I have not seen but would like to see), but rather as watching a documentary based on the people that I greatly admire and respect, and to who I feel like I owe a lot of what I have today to them.
I also agree that I would have preferred that there was more on the people who fought in the war but it was also nice to see a view of it come from the side of those who didn't take part in it. I thought that they still talked about the veterans who fought with awe in their voices after all those years, it was kinda refreshing as when people usual do shows about the war have interviews with those who fought(not saying that I'm tired of it, it's good for them to get it out there), I'm just saying that it's nice to get a perspective from their point of view because it reminds you that there were more people involved than just those who fought.
I believe that the entire scope of the U.S. involvement in all of World War II is simply too vast a subject to cover and cover well in a series of this length.
Being a Korean War baby, I have heard much about the World War II home front from many family members and friends, ranging in age from people a little younger than my parents to those 3 generations older than I am. The number of people who I have known who lived through those times (and the Great Depression before it) and their willingness to talk about their experiences, means that the home front portion is less interesting and informative (to me and most near my age) than the stories of the war and the soldiers/sailors/marines.
What I did not hear about as a kid and even much later in life was what it was really like for the World War II vets who were truly in the thick of it. It was all but universally true that none of them spoke about it even at a minor level of depth, except perhaps in the VFW hall. But certainly not too their kids. They would talk about the fun and funny stories that happened off the line with their buddies, and from time to time let you look through the key hole by mentioning something that happened in response to a direct question. But that was about it. That only began to change for some of them when and if they made it into their 70's. At that point many seem to have come to the realization that regardless of how difficult and painful it was to speak of their experiences, it was important for the next generations to know about them. The releases of Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan were, I believe, factors in this process. For those reasons and because the youngest of the surviving vets are now about 80, I find the stories of the vets to be much more important and of far greater interest.
Finally, I had some trouble with the amount of time devoted to certain subjects, given how little was available to tell the entire story. For example I would have spent far less time on the civilian prisoners in the Philippines. While interesting (except the repeated reference to the tossed dog tags), I would have spent less time on the Philippine POW's experience. Of course I would also have shifted time spent telling the home front story to the soldiers and the war.
I will note that the home front narrator I found the most compelling was the lady from Mobile, Katherine Phillips--whose speech was mocked by our local TV reviewer.
A tv personality from Austin or Reno mocked a lady from Alabama? Too funny.:clown:
Reno wouldn't have been too funny, but she works for the Austin paper. However, I doubt that she is from Texas.
I believe that the entire scope of the U.S. involvement in all of World War II is simply too vast a subject to cover and cover well in a series of this length.
Being a Korean War baby, I have heard much about the World War II home front from many family members and friends, ranging in age from people a little younger than my parents to those 3 generations older than I am. The number of people who I have known who lived through those times (and the Great Depression before it) and their willingness to talk about their experiences, means that the home front portion is less interesting and informative (to me and most near my age) than the stories of the war and the
soldiers/sailors/marines.
What I did not hear about as a kid and even much later in life was what it was really like for the World War II vets who were truly in the thick of it. It was all but universally true that none of them spoke about it even at a minor level of depth, except perhaps in the VFW hall. But certainly not too their kids. They would talk about the fun and funny stories that happened off the line with their buddies, and from time to time let you look through the key hole by mentioning something that happened in response to a direct question. But that was about it. That only began to change for some of them when and if they made it into their 70's. At that point many seem to have come to the realization that regardless of how difficult and painful it was to speak of their experiences, it was important for the next generations to know about them. The releases of Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan were, I believe, factors in this process. For those reasons and because the youngest of the surviving vets are now about 80, I find the stories of the vets to be much more important and of far greater interest.
Finally, I had some trouble with the amount of time devoted to certain subjects, given how little was available to tell the entire story. For example I would have spent far less time on the civilian prisoners in the Philippines. While interesting (except the repeated reference to the tossed dog tags), I would have spent less time on the Philippine POW's experience. Of course I would also have shifted time spent telling the home front story to the soldiers and the war.
I will note that the home front narrator I found the most compelling was the lady from Mobile, Katherine Phillips--whose speech was mocked by our local TV reviewer.
Excellent review Jag. And that's a reason why(the bold part) that I've read and am reading soooo many books because it is really fascinating and quite amazing to read about their experiences. (I'm getting the impression that you are somewhat disappointed in the series, kinda disheartening imo, but like you said, it's our point of views on it.)
BTW, who's the main narrator? I've heard him a lot, and I really like him. And the guy who did Sledge sounds very familiar.
Thanks Brandon; I believe that Keith David, who is about four years my junior, narrated "The War". I believe he also narrated Burns' series on Jazz.
Thanks Brandon; I believe that Keith David, who is two years my junior, narrated "The War". I believe he also narrated Burns' series on Jazz.
Hey, no problem man. And thanks on pointing out who that narrator is. BTW, you said that you were a Korean War baby, did your dad fight in the war? If he did, where did he fight?
My father graduated from high school in 1943. He immediately joined the Navy's V-12 program. It compressed 4 years of college engineering into just 2 years. By the time he graduated and received his commission as an ensign, the war was over. He was one of the lucky ones.
My only blood uncle (my mom's brother) was an army infantry platoon sergeant in the ETO. He saw some nasty stuff and earned a Bronze Star. He also linked up with the Russians in Czechoslovakia.
Another uncle, who I never knew, was a Japanese interpreter in the Pacific. He survived the war, but died of cancer not too long thereafter.
My great uncle (my dad's uncle) was in the Wisconsin National Guard Cavalry as a sergeant before the war. His unit was converted to armor. He trained tankers in LA and KY before going to the ETO, as a major. He too earned a Bronze Star. He said that he wasn't brave. He just couldn't see anything unless he kept his jeep in the lead of his tanks. I found an AAR he wrote on his World War II unit's web site. He went on to be a career military man.
Even a number of the women served. My mom was just shy of 13 when Pearl Harbor was attacked. But our neighbor, fellow nurse and her best friend served as a nurse and officer in the ETO. Her husband was in the Coast Guard, but never left the States. It seemed that almost every dad and some of the moms served in some way during the war.
Some interesting stuff just from the guys here. The series hasnt made it to the UK yet, though I suppose the interest from this side of the Pond would be more restricted. Although I was very impressed with the Civil War documentary when it came out and I will watch this one as it looks like from the comments here I will definately get something out of it.
Cheers..
I would love to see a similar work about the UK, Germany, Japan and the (old) Soviet Union. If it ever happens, my money is your guys, Geordie! There is probably still too much voodoo in the air to get a quality piece from the others during the my lifetime.
I would love to see a similar work about the UK, Germany, Japan and the (old) Soviet Union. If it ever happens, my money is your guys, Geordie! There is probably still too much voodoo in the air to get a quality piece from the others during the my lifetime.
Exactly what I was thinking! Or at least more books and info from their sides(but like you said voodoo is probably still around).
My father graduated from high school in 1943. He immediately joined the Navy's V-12 program. It compressed 4 years of college engineering into just 2 years. By the time he graduated and received his commission as an ensign, the war was over. He was one of the lucky ones.
My only blood uncle (my mom's brother) was an army infantry platoon sergeant in the ETO. He saw some nasty stuff and earned a Bronze Star. He also linked up with the Russians in Czechoslovakia.
Another uncle, who I never knew, was a Japanese interpreter in the Pacific. He survived the war, but died of cancer not too long thereafter.
My great uncle (my dad's uncle) was in the Wisconsin National Guard Cavalry as a sergeant before the war. His unit was converted to armor. He trained tankers in LA and KY before going to the ETO, as a major. He too earned a Bronze Star. He said that he wasn't brave. He just couldn't see anything unless he kept his jeep in the lead of his tanks. I found an AAR he wrote on his World War II unit's web site. He went on to be a career military man.
Even a number of the women served. My mom was just shy of 13 when Pearl Harbor was attacked. But our neighbor, fellow nurse and her best friend served as a nurse and officer in the ETO. Her husband was in the Coast Guard, but never left the States. It seemed that almost every dad and some of the moms served in some way during the war.
Wow, that's quite an impressive list(couldn't think of a better word:paperbag:) you have their of your family.
As for me(since you talked about your family):
On my side, my grandpa from my mom's side told me that he originally tried to get into the air force(he's Hawaiian btw, but was on Molokai when Pearl was attacked) but was denied. He then tried to join the Marines but he said he was a bad liar and they didn't accept him so he waited till he was draft age and went into the army where he saw no action, but he'd later serve as an occupation soldier in Germany where he met my grandmother. He tells me all the time that he probably would've fought in some of the major battles in the Pacific if he was a better liar hehe.
Now my grandma (on my mom's side) was a German born in Wiesbaden and her dad was a vet of WWI who was wounded twice and fought through the whole war! Here's a pic of his medals http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n73/kawaiku/Personal%20Pics/Picture133.jpg
He later was drafted into service during WWII(but apparently he didn't like Hitler) where we've so far assumed from, a pic and what he has told my mom and grandma, that he served with the Afrika Korps and later in a submarine that was captured by the Russians after the war. He would serve in their camps and would later return to civilian life during the Cold War. While during WWII, my grandma would swim the Rhine(she used to be a lifeguard on the Rhine) to pass letters from families to their members serving in the military for the gestapo(dun dun dun!!!). Eventually the bombing attacks intensified and the street next to hers was fire bombed while hers remained untouched! She would later meet my grandpa who, with a friend, decided to "escort" her and a friend to their home, and now I am here:cool:
For my grandpa's family(still on my mom's side), they all joined the service at one point including a brother-in-law who would serve in the special forces.
My dad was in the Navy's version of rotc(forgot what it was called), and he would end up missing Vietnam by a narrow margin. His draft ticket was next in line when it ended:surprise:.
I also had two members sever on opposite sides during the Civil War and one who even took part in the Revolution, although we don't no much about him or what he did exactly.
Right now, I have an uncle and his son who are scout snipers with the Army I believe, and as far as I know, he has already served at least one term in Iraq or maybe more. He was asked to return into service to help give the "new guys" some experience and help. He's like a master sgt. or something to do wit sgt. can't remember tho. Great guy.
Your family has its own intriguing story vault! It also goes back a great deal further in the U.S. than does mine. Only a small part of my family were here (mostly from what later became Germany) at the time of the Civil War. I know that at least one of my ancestors fought for the North in a Wisconsin regiment. I'm going to have to press my dad's older sister for details and any records.
My wife's dad, who was 10 years older than my father, flew for Pan Am as a radioman before the war. He was in USAAF flight school. He made it almost all the way through until he decided to buzz the tower. He ended up manning a radio all right--but in the Merchant Marine. He sailed all over the world during the war. He delivered supplies in New Guenna. He sailed the North Atlantic to the Soviet Union. In one trip his ship was separated from the convoy and lost in the fog. They were listed as missing, but eventually showed up where they were supposed to with their cargo.
So many families have so many spellbinding stories from those times. Unfortunately some have very sad endings.
My Great Grandad volunteered for the Black Watch (Brit Army Regiment) in January 1914 (he lied about his age as he was just over 14) as he didnt want to work down the Mines. I remember him laughing when he told me that in Aug 1914 when WW1 started they thought it really would be over by Xmas. To cut a long story short he obviously survived the whole war being wounded 3 times, which was a feat in its own. However an awful lot of his friends who were conscripted never made it back and so he left the Army in 1919 to work in - you guessed it, the Mines. When WW2 came around he wanted to join again but Miners werent allowed to as it was a reserved occupation.
Mad Russian
06 Oct 07, 02:35
IMO, his attempt to do the three theaters was interesting. The European and Pacific theaters always get mentioned and the home front rarely ever. You can't watch an overview documentary and get specific details on the fighting.
My wife, who knows little about the war, thought it was great and very interesting. I thought the story line was missing some things but didn't watch it for what wasn't there...instead focusing on what was.
Good stuff I think.
Good Hunting.
MR
Your family has its own intriguing story vault! It also goes back a great deal further in the U.S. than does mine. Only a small part of my family were here (mostly from what later became Germany) at the time of the Civil War. I know that at least one of my ancestors fought for the North in a Wisconsin regiment. I'm going to have to press my dad's older sister for details and any records.
My wife's dad, who was 10 years older than my father, flew for Pan Am as a radioman before the war. He was in USAAF flight school. He made it almost all the way through until he decided to buzz the tower. He ended up manning a radio all right--but in the Merchant Marine. He sailed all over the world during the war. He delivered supplies in New Guenna. He sailed the North Atlantic to the Soviet Union. In one trip his ship was separated from the convoy and lost in the fog. They were listed as missing, but eventually showed up where they were supposed to with their cargo.
So many families have so many spellbinding stories from those times. Unfortunately some have very sad endings.
That's pretty crazy about your wife's father's dad. I'm sure he quite a few experiences on the ship. I find it that is' pretty sad that that supply line up there is hardly ever mentioned.
My Great Grandad volunteered for the Black Watch (Brit Army Regiment) in January 1914 (he lied about his age as he was just over 14) as he didnt want to work down the Mines. I remember him laughing when he told me that in Aug 1914 when WW1 started they thought it really would be over by Xmas. To cut a long story short he obviously survived the whole war being wounded 3 times, which was a feat in its own. However an awful lot of his friends who were conscripted never made it back and so he left the Army in 1919 to work in - you guessed it, the Mines. When WW2 came around he wanted to join again but Miners werent allowed to as it was a reserved occupation.
In a way it's kind of a bummer and a blessing I suppose Geordie.
We just lost another great one--Brig. Gen. David Lee "Tex" Hill.
Check out the short narrated slide show about him in the first post, second link here:
http://www.themodelhangar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42416
KG_Cloghaun
17 Oct 07, 23:25
I've watched Burn's new documentary twice now & found it lacking in many areas as a complete work. Still, it did have some good interviews & footage.
I've collected several documentaries on WW2, both small & large in scope. In my opinion, "The World at War" series is far & away the best. I strongly recommend it.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002F6AH0/km-20/ref=nosim
Huh, I've been thinking about getting it. Is it more along the lines of what you guys were looking for?(like more on the fighting men is what I meant).
I would agree there. The World at War series is excellent and because it was made in the early 70's? A lot of the key players on both sides are interviewed for it as well as countless people who were there. Probably the best TV series on WW2 to date that tries to encompass everything.
KG_Cloghaun
25 Oct 07, 11:39
Huh, I've been thinking about getting it. Is it more along the lines of what you guys were looking for?(like more on the fighting men is what I meant).
*I apologize for not answering sooner.
Geordie said it best. It tries to cover everything; the battles, the politics, the personal stories. There's really no series that can touch it, imo.
*I apologize for not answering sooner.
Geordie said it best. It tries to cover everything; the battles, the politics, the personal stories. There's really no series that can touch it, imo.
Ah no problem Cloghaun, I knew that you'd answer at some point so I wasn't worried.
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