General Staff vs. Elmer (Road to Rimini 1944)

[General Staff]

I ran a turn 1 against Elmer. This is what I'd deploy given time constraints of scenario.

1) HQs, arty are on minimize losses since I want them to retreat from the front line if their hex is attacked ASAP.

2) Engineers are unfortunately needed to dig as quickly as possible, but they're also on minimize losses for the same reason. Note FJ Engineer unit was used to get two units on Super River hexes to widen escape corridor from Fano.

3) What armour I have is dug in in urban areas as are flak guns (plus some on the river line and digging around Pesaro). Pretty much everything is broken down. Units not dug in are almost all retreated which means they can't.

4) Arty is placed for maximum coverage.

File 1a is before I had a bash at Allied naval unit and prior to Allied interdiction efforts before turn end. File 1b is after. 3 of 4 Stukas got shot down by several hundred assorted Allied fighters. A few ME-109s remain but we didn't hit anything. Oh well...

[General Staff]

Elmer thrashed away on a broad front, particularly interested in the towns along the roads. Note how when everyone else scarpered the SPGs in Fossombrone and Saltara remain, burning up round after round for the loss of a machine or two. 2/2/4 FJ surrounded in 20,16 but we'll see if we can get out.

Also, arty on defense took quite a toll of Allied troops- 17 to 7 loss ratio in our favour.

[General Staff]

Here's a ZIP file with rounds 1, 2 and turn end, so you can see attacks and results. You can run these yourself once you load them- also since it's hotseat versus Allied Computer it's possible to stop Computer and view Allied casualties too. I'm hitting most vulnerable red-lined stacks with small ground attacks supported by as much DIRECT arty support as possible.

What's becoming clearer here is that Allied loss intolerance is one- maybe the main- key to a win here. We now have a 20 point advantage in casualties which will offset a fair few VP hexes. More reason to get to grips ASAP as far forward as possible and hit targets of opportunity with direct arty in support of minor counterattacks and in his turn have all your arty sited for maximum support. So I'd continue to argue that it's best to think of the Gothic Line as a last ditch defense. Fight forward and inflict maximum casualties and I don't think the Germans can really lose too badly- if at all- with this strategy and these tactics.

A couple of notes:

1) it's worth putting a unit on San Marino (maybe the overall HQ) for spotting/intel but in my game with 'Fog of War' off not necessary.

2) I'll let air recover before another bash at shipping. Against a human player you probably won't have this option- certainly as Allies I'd suggest blowing the LW wild card off the table ASAP.

3) Given support among different coloured formations is another reason to penny packet armour and AT support with FJ units for example, as it can mean the difference between arty helping or hoarding.

4) Interdiction non-existent this turn. What a relief!

I ejected Allies from Urbino but didn't have MPs enough to get in. Also FJ attempt to escape foiled- decided to dig in and hopefully make them pay given arty support. It will delay some at least.

[General Staff]

Elmer took out the surrounded FJs east, and liquidated resistance in Fossombrone and Saltara. Breakthroughs NE of Urbino and near Petriano are main worries, plus how to hold/withdraw E of Petriano with routed/reorg units.

20-9 loss penalty in our favour, so 97/100 for VP Total. Same tactics again- fighting withdrawal hitting overstacks with minor counterattacks with as much Direct Arty Support as possible (e.g. 10,19, 20,15, 22,15).

[General Staff]

Here's a ZIP file with rounds 1, 2, 3 and turn end, so you can see attacks and results. Interdiction desperate again this turn. If you wanted your lawn mowed, all you'd have to do is cover it- or spray paint it- with a swastika flag.

ROUND 1

1) LA/ML attack against 22,14 with Direct Arty. It will help take edge off recce value plus hopefully destroy some engineers in the open, reducing his fording ability over the Foglia. Using armour as it has high AP and AT values.
2) LA/ML attack against 22,15 with Direct Arty. As above- edge of recce value plus a number of high strength infantry in the open. Red stack.
3) 20,15. Too much armour here plus units tired and I don't have much I can afford to lose in an assault here. Left alone even though Orange stack.
4) 71 ID Hq in 15,17 to get out of front line and try to help routed units in vicinity recover.
5) 13,18 attacked from 2 directions for flank attack advantage. Some armour used with infantry and Direct Arty.
6) 9,18 attacked from 3 directions (armour north of Urbino as well this round) for flank attack advantage with Direct Arty.

The last 2 we really need cleared out as they're breakthrough threats. Near Petriano especially so with a lot of units routed in reorg and the potential for them to get cut off.

Results: 22,14 retreated with Engineers broken down. 22,15 the FJs got hit by interdiction and didn't go in, so it became a 3-round arty barrage. You might want to bear this in mind managing rounds- maybe I should have all arty on ML in direct support for when this happens. 13,18 retreated so that's a relief for retreated/routed/reorg units near Petriano. 9,18 no result.

ROUND 2

I'm putting arty on ML in Direct Support. Will check it supports through multiple rounds if any.

1) 22,15 Red stack, with units retreated from 22,14. All in the open. Can't resist.
2) 10,19. As above with lots of infantry, not dug in though in light woods.
3) 9,18 again.

Results: 9,18 retreated. Red stacks some damage. One problem is that some units are taking multiple interdiction hits. This can result in units being retreated so they can't attack- also arty so it doesn't Direct Support. Only one round so no chance to test ML setting for arty.

ROUND 3

I moved up 1/1/1 FJ from Pesaro (it was retreated so could move up set to attack, cancel then dig) to the vacated 22,14 as well as a retreated set of flak 88s++. Dug them in too. Gives a better line and might let us keep Faro longer. I put 2/525 Nashorns slightly behind on TR. He's a lot of armour going somewhere here (but not sure where) and I need AT capability to put in front of it.

1) 22,15 Red stack, with units retreated from 22,14. All in the open. Let's try one more time. At the least it burns up his arty big time and exhausts the stack some.

Results: Not much except Allied exhaustion- arty in support and units. Plus his pilots must be reaching the limits of their endurance. Let's call it a day. I could hit 22,15 again but I'm not getting brilliant casualty reports and need to dig in. Plus interdiction is starting to evap some units.

We've got a reasonable line and delaying tactics seem to be going OK. The End file is just before his interdiction- otherwise it just changes side and that Rotweiller Elmer gets to it.

[General Staff]

A line of sorts held, while Elmer just rolled forward on a broad front, taking some heavy casualties- an assault on Faro left 25 of 145 Shermans lost and 3 of 12 Crusaders. The 2/525 Nashorns on TR piled in as expected and burnt a few rounds before being retreated without any losses it would seem.

But with this kind of air and arty support, it's just a matter of time, which fortunately is on our side. Now we need to extricate what we can, form a line again and wait for our next dose of medicine.

Theatre Interdiction looks lower at c25%- always worth checking the Air Briefing. Casualties running at 28-14 giving us 100 of 100 VPs for an OV.

[General Staff]

Extricated what I could to form a line under slightly less heavy air interdiction. No attacks, since with a thin line like this I don't need holes blown in it from the air.

So only an end turn here- prior to enemy interdiction.

[General Staff]

Elmer hammered away on a broad front and in some places is now closing on the Gothic line. But attacks are taking their toll in casualty differential- even losing Fano and Petriano this turn casualty differential is now 16 leaving us with 94 of 100 VPs. Still an OV and at last the 26th Panzer has appeared!

We now just need to man the Gothic Line and hold on for dear life. Also since Air is now up to 100% Supply and Readiness we'll put the ME109s on AS and float the boat out with the RN Adriatic Group.

[General Staff]

ZIP file attached as usual. Interdiction non-existent this turn, as indicated by Situation Briefing (no effect/reduction on our supply) and Air Briefing (Interdiction 0% though he does have an AS Rating of 8)- I guess those Allied pilots finally hit the sack. Desperate again this turn. Let's make the most of this respite as we move reinforcements (26th Panzer Division plus assorted miscellaneous units) into Gothic Line++ positions and extricate what we can south. This is really turning into a 2 phase (at least) battle for the Germans- Phase I is delaying action south of Gothic Line allowing for reinforcements to get into optimal positions in the line, with Phase II holding the line and preventing breakthroughs- if necessary with judicious armour++ counterattacks.

ROUND 1

We need to try to clear 9,17 and 19,13- both potential breakthroughs. First let's test Interdiction by moving 1/4th Panzer Battalion in Rimini one hex south- this unit contains PVs (Panthers) with the best armour rating (4) against aircraft you've got, which is why it is heading out first. You can't break it down in Rimini as there are too many units there already. Get to 6,3 then break into 3. Then move to try to draw out any interdiction. If there's one place where a major counterattack might cause some havoc it's in the open south of Pesaro (18/19,13) which I've deliberately left with no trenches to hopefully use as a killing ground. So offensive armour (1/4 and 508th Heavy Panzer Battalion) is headed that way. Lesser (though still good but not Tigers/Panthers) anti-armour armour elements in Rimini are going to points further west (2/26, 242nd StuG Brigade). Rolling 1/4 and 2/26 south split into 3s attracts no interdiction so I think we could assume Allied Air is on Rest or AS, though Weather Briefing shows Fair. So let's see what we can extricate south and then bolster with the reinforcements as we see what comes out and in what shape.

1) LA/ML attack against 9,17 with Direct Arty.
2) LA/ML attack against 9,18 with Direct Arty. Red stack with lots of infantry not dug in.
3) LA/LL attack against 19,13 with Indirect Arty (we need to move our arty out of the front line plus it's not that good versus armour anyway). Limited Losses as these recce units can take a good few rounds to dislodge.

Results: Both 9,17 and 19,13 retreated. Red stack hit hard with 10% infantry casualties. We also lost 2 of 3 JU87s versus RN for no ships lost. For loss of 1 ME109 on AS we took out 6 Spitfires, 1 P40, 1 Mosquito and 1 Beaufighter. Most of 26 Panzer Division infantry/AA/AT goes to man the Gothic Line. Quite a sight to the hard-pressed lads across the river and a rousing cheer could be heard echoing down the Foglia River valley. SE of Petriano we had to leave some units with 0 MPs behind without much hope, though there is something of a lifeline if they can make it to 15,17 and up. 80% of turn remaining.

ROUND 2

I put the 26 Panzer Division Recce unit around 19,13 to up enemy entry costs- I want to leave this hex empty and open in case I get a chance to counterattack with armour. I did the best I could for units SW of Pesaro, with engineers to facilitate crossing the Foglia River. I put 508th Heavy Panzer Battalion in front of the river (Tigers have better AP and worse AT ratings than Panthers) and kept the 1/4th Panzer Battalion Panthers just behind in case I get a chance for a counterattack. Air is on rest- when back up to 100% readiness I may try again versus ships.

1) LA/ML attack against 9,18 with Direct Arty. Red stack with lots of infantry not dug in.

Results: Some units retreat with 10% infantry++ casualties.

ROUND 3

Again:

1) LA/ML attack against 9,18 with Direct Arty. Again red stack with lots of infantry not dug in.

Results: As before- some units retreat with 20%+ infantry++ casualties. Stack now Yellow so let's call it a day, dig in the 2 remaining SPGs and pull the HQ back across the river. We already blew the bridge here Round 1.

I do wish Elmer the best of luck trying to crack this line. Casualties 33-16 and VP level 95 out of 100- still OV.

[General Staff]

Elmer's usual breakfast. 37-15 casualty differential leaves us at 100 of 100 VPs for a continuing OV. Out west he is now adjacent to Gothic Line, but seems to be tiring and I doubt he'll get far. My goal now to keep Gothic Line totally intact.

I do think we may have the counterattack opportunity we've been looking for in 19,13...

[General Staff]

ZIP file attached. Interdiction again non-existent this turn. Let's roll with the counterattack- 19,13 the target. In this case it's unfortunate we're playing Elmer- he's just not susceptible to terror and won't react the same way a human opponent might.

ROUND 1

First we need to clear 18,13 and 19,14. So attacks are set up as follows:

1) 18,13. A/LL with no DA support since it's armour only and arty is pretty ineffective. Infantry and armour pile in here. Flank attack.
2) 19,14. As above, but no flank bonus. Nashorns and Recce unit.
3) 16,16. LA/ML with DA Support. Hard to resist this target. Red stack of infantry not dug-in.
4) Further west, some LA/ML attacks with DA to clear anyone frolicking in or near the river.

Results: 1 & 2- cleared. 3- some damage. 4- cleared except for the retreated unit from 3 (broken down). 50% of turn left.

ROUND 2

With 50% left I'm going all out for 19,13. So we'll dig in all arty for support if turn ends. 19,14 gets dug in to provide some cover if the attack doesn't work. All other armour is piled in at LA/IL except 18,13 which is designated lead driver to take hex. Also 7,18/8,18 as targets of opportunity.

Results: 7,18- 2 of 3 units cleared. 8,18 some damage. 19,13 all eliminated except 8th PLNB Hussars. 20% left.

ROUND 3

19,13 again. Let's also put the ME109s on AS since they're well rested. We'll only get 1 round.

Results: 19,13 gone but we didn't manage to occupy.

[General Staff]

Major assaults as usual. Some incredible acts of heroism caused staggering Allied casualties. Casualty differential now stands at 65-15 with a VP total of 128 of 100. But he is closing on the line. Can it hold?

[General Staff]

ZIP file attached as usual. No Interdiction again. Goal now is to extricate units south of the river and keep the enemy out of the Gothic Line.

ROUND 1

The bulk of the Turkoman division heads south along the coast and is stacked behind the front line with HQ optimally placed and arty too for support of front line positions. Some parts go to Gemmano, since we need some more SPGs here after some losses last turn. 98th Division also mostly west except arty which heads east to support ASAP. I've plans for this to all end up inland eventually. Pull back from 18/20,13 using HQs/recce units to cover. Recce unit took a hit moving out to 19,13.

1) 12,15 may be red but at 100% dug in I'm not going to go over the top here.
2) 9,17 and 10,15- let's try to clear these. The usual- LA/ML with DA. 10,16 is dug in and green- let's leave. He may try a frontal assault against the town but he won't get a flank advantage if we clear these other two hexes out.

Results: Cleared. Dig in now and hold on. Arty sited for best defensive effect. Engineers sited to aid river crossings.

Still OV.

[General Staff]

66-17 Casualties. 123 of 100 VPs for OV. But we got hit hard. Let's extricate and consolidate in the Gothic Line.

[General Staff]

Let's keep extricating and manning that line. We're going to fight for Pesaro (10 VPs) and the 2 Montes. Given their sterling service to date, I'd prefer to extricate the FJs and rotate in other units, but it's not really practical at this point. If the scenario were longer I'd probably make more of an effort.

Reinforcements: note that when moving these up I try to position them at the end of the turn in defensible terrain and dig in with a last MP with an eye on the future. Not so necessary here, but in longer campaigns can make a big difference. Arty gets rushed up ASAP to support where it can regardless of digging. HQs sited for best supply/readiness recovery effort.

ROUND 1

I'd love to rest the FJs given their sterling service but it's just not practical- other than those already out of the line. Ideally move in the Turcomans to replace. Let's try this rotation next turn and put routed/reorg FJ units on ML to get them out ASAP if attacked.

1) 7,17/8,17/9,17 as usual with LA/ML and DA.
2) Leaving 13,15 alone as too much armour. Let's hit 15,15 instead with LA/ML and DA- lots of infantry, red stack and not dug in.
3) 19,13 LA/ML + DA. Infantry in the open. Sure it's green but red units and too good to pass up at this stage. Plus units from 3 formations so may help with disorg chances.

Results: 70-14 Casualty Differential so some damage. 90% remaining. The 2nd/1st/191 Infantry didn't survive their assault against 15,15 so that brings to an end the illustrious career of the 191st Infantry Regiment.

ROUND 2

If the medicine works, repeat dosage.

1) 7,17/8,17/9,17 as usual with LA/ML and DA.
2) Again, leaving 13,15 alone as too much armour, let's hit 15,15 instead with LA/ML and DA- lots of infantry, red stack and not dug in. With 2/1/91 gone we'll have to improvise and launch 71 ID HQ in (not much left to command anyway), trusting that the sight of a few 'chain dogs' and those 46 Fast Horse Teams will achieve surprise at least and possibly sow panic among the opposing ranks.
3) 19,13 LA/ML + DA again, but with more arty this turn.

Results: 75-15 so more damage, plus some retreats. 80% remaining. The 71 ID HQ seem to have made it across, took out 10%+ of their squads and returned with a good few horses to boot.

ROUND 3

Let's dig in west. East:

1) 15,15 again.
2) 19,13 again.

Results: 78-15. 70% remaining. But our units flagging.

Let's call it a day. Reposition a few arty pieces and infantry units to keep digging in rear.

[General Staff]

Casualties 92-15. The line took some pounding and he's made some progress on the left flank, but at a terrible cost in men and materiel.

The casualty figures speak for themselves and it's really the way to win as the Germans- offset your location VP losses with the casualty differential. Units SW of S. Angelo in particular staged a heroic last stand.

[Goliath]

The casualty figures speak for themselves and it's really the way to win as the Germans- offset your location VP losses with the casualty differential.

That was my impression when playing the Germans against Elmer. His loss penalty reached somewhere around 100 for a handful of the VPs in the Gotic Line (German OV, needless to say).

Now playing the Germans against Frances, I have the impression that all-air-on-interdiction is a winner for the Allies (in my game as Allied, I used them for combat support during my turn, swiching to interdiction before ending). In my turn 2 as the Germans, I managed to patch my positions tolerably, only to have them thrashed by interdiction when I performed a couple of combat rounds. Many artillery units were evapped, just sitting entrenched giving indirect support :eek:.

To get an idea of Elmer's use of air units, I checked the Air staff assistant (which I presume is what Elmer uses to manage air units?), and found that it is on average putting some (but seldom all) bombers on interdiction - other units go on combat support and air superiority. BTW does anyone know if the assistant makes mission settings in anticipation of turn end?

[Veers]

That was my impression when playing the Germans against Elmer. His loss penalty reached somewhere around 100 for a handful of the VPs in the Gotic Line (German OV, needless to say).

Now playing the Germans against Frances, I have the impression that all-air-on-interdiction is a winner for the Allies (in my game as Allied, I used them for combat support during my turn, swiching to interdiction before ending). In my turn 2 as the Germans, I managed to patch my positions tolerably, only to have them thrashed by interdiction when I performed a couple of combat rounds. Many artillery units were evapped, just sitting entrenched giving indirect support :eek:.

To get an idea of Elmer's use of air units, I checked the Air staff assistant (which I presume is what Elmer uses to manage air units?), and found that it is on average putting some (but seldom all) bombers on interdiction - other units go on combat support and air superiority. BTW does anyone know if the assistant makes mission settings in anticipation of turn end?

Goliath, stopped reading this when I noticed it had soemthing to do with your game against Frances. Any chance I can get a warning bit at the beginning of a post that has something to do with that game? I don't want to read anything that could comprimise anything (obviously, don't worry about it in your own thread, as I just stay away from that one). :D

[General Staff]

BTW does anyone know if the assistant makes mission settings in anticipation of turn end?This is one of the mysteries of the universe. I've pondered the answer at some length- possibilities:

1) He's an agent for the other side.
2) He's completely locked/loaded and on crack cocaine as he devises missions.
3) He figures if he loses his entire Air Force he'll be surplus to requirements and can retire.
4) He's a genius and has crafted a careful plan to actually beat Catch-22.

Whatever else, he would appear to have a carefully honed sense of humour, though only if you're a spectator. I wouldn't fancy throwing my JU-87 around as I attempt to wrest Air Superiority from a squadron of P-51 Mustangs...

[Goliath]

Goliath, stopped reading this when I noticed it had soemthing to do with your game against Frances. Any chance I can get a warning bit at the beginning of a post that has something to do with that game? I don't want to read anything that could comprimise anything (obviously, don't worry about it in your own thread, as I just stay away from that one). :D

But wait, I thought you were on MY side! :laugh::laugh:

[Telumar]

This is one of the mysteries of the universe. I've pondered the answer at some length- possibilities:

1) He's an agent for the other side.
2) He's completely locked/loaded and on crack cocaine as he devises missions.
3) He figures if he loses his entire Air Force he'll be surplus to requirements and can retire.
4) He's a genius and has crafted a careful plan to actually beat Catch-22.

Whatever else, he would appear to have a carefully honed sense of humour, though only if you're a spectator. I wouldn't fancy throwing my JU-87 around as I attempt to wrest Air Superiority from a squadron of P-51 Mustangs...

You definitely can call him "Meyer" :clown:

[Veers]

But wait, I thought you were on MY side! :laugh::laugh:

Hahaha, I think that frances would have something to say about me being on yuor side, and since she's close enough to hit me, and youre not, I'll stick with her. :clown:

[General Staff]

We don't have to do much here. But let's try to keep the integrity of the line to the left. And hit soft targets for casualties. Last bash at the RN too, now that air has recovered.

ROUND 1

On 6,16 and 8,16 I've got regular attacks going in with Limited Losses in conjunction with IL (3 round) sorties against the RN. Elsewhere hitting anything that will up the casualty count- like the lads in what must by now be a Dante-esque inferno area in and SW of S. Angelo and the 'dead men walking' red stacks near the coast. As usual it's really the arty doing the work here and it's a little sickening to see the casualty reports.

Going in at 92-15.

Results: A destroyer, a light cruiser and 2 Spitfires for 2 ME109s. How the JU87s made it out is anyone's guess. 60% left with neither taken GL hex dislodged. Casualties now 104-16.

ROUND 2

As Round 1.

Results: 2 destroyers, 2 Spitfires for 1 JU87. Not bad. We retook 6,16 but couldn't dislodge armour from 8,16. Casualties now 106-16.

ROUND 3

Air to rest. 8,16 final all out assault with 2/1/994 Infantry (with Indirect Arty since I've dug it all in for defense though A/IL and at 30% remaining can only go 2 rounds).

Results: No luck against 8,16- in fact a poor attack taking heavy casualties. The lads have done wonders and I'm not about to send them back into another rear assault on the Gothic Line for a poxy Appenine hex or two. We'll just build- actually well in progress now- another one if this went further. End turn.

[General Staff]

Casualties 122-16, so he took some huge hits for gains in the Montecalvo sector though the VP gains of 4 wouldn't justify the incremental casualty differential (16 from prior turn).

[Veers]

Casualties 122-16, so he took some huge hits for gains in the Montecalvo sector though the VP gains of 4 wouldn't justify the incremental casualty differential (16 from prior turn).

Looks like you really kicked butt. :salute:

[General Staff]

If this was going longer I'd be using the mountain infantry west and building a new line on the Conca River with the 29th PzG Division for when the GL eventually folds.

ROUND 1

Hit 8,16, 10,15 and 20,11 with the usual formula. Plus why not? Another jaunt over the Adriatic to see how the lads on the boats are doing.

Going in at 122-18.

Results: The JU87 didn't make it back. Didn't hit anything either. Stacks damaged. Casualties 127-18 with 40% left.

Dig in. Arty back. OV at 175 out of 100.

Looking at Inventory this would have cost the Allies about 200,000 casualties and 400 tanks. The Germans would have lost about 60,000 casualties and under 50 tanks.

IMO the key to winning this as Germans is combined arms stacks and a defense in depth forward of the main Gothic Line, with a view to holding this as long as possible. Site arty for maximum defensive gain and hit any targets of opportunity hard. I'd have trouble as an Allied Commander against a decent German defense as was historically the case.

Note I did have an advantage with no FoW (though I'm not sure given narrowness of the playing area this makes much difference). Plus I got to see Allied combat results (if I wanted to).