Heldenkaiser vs. Pasha

[Heldenkaiser]

Alright, here is my first move.
- I dug in all units that could not move and most of the artillery.
- Set the air force mostly on combat support.
- Advanced the three available British brigades, 1st, 2nd, 128th, to the enemy lines. 1st went for Saltara, 2nd for the coastal plains east of that, 128th for Urbino.
- The first two combat rounds were spent for direct fire actions on the enemy frontline by massed artillery. Then these guns too were dug in.
- Then the assaults began, all on "limit losses"; as the 128th brigade had spent most of their MP advancing to the front lines, they joined in only at 40% of the turn left.

We were moderately successful. Saltara did fall on the last combat round, the attack being supported by a direct attack mission of two air squadrons. The 128th achieved nearly nothing. Note that on the last turn, the way now being free after having pushed aside the enemy bicycle bn on the hills east of the town, I couldn't resist to have the center battalion use its last 5 MP to advance adjacent to the town without being able to dig it in afterwards. :nervous:

- Airforce back on air superiority / interdiction.
- End turn. :)

Although all combats without exception ended with the enemy losing more than us (in %), the loss penalty is now 8 (us) against 1 (Germans). Pity. But probably inevitable. :surprise:
Victory level -103/100 = OD.

http://home.arcor.de/Dierk_Walter/TOAW/T1.gif

[Heldenkaiser]

Immediately after I closed the move, I realized that I should have used much more of the artillery for direct bombardements. All those guns I dug in did not support my British battalions anyway I believe, as they have a different color scheme. Oh well ... maybe next time. :rolleyes:

[nemo]

Immediately after I closed the move, I realized that I should have used much more of the artillery for direct bombardements. All those guns I dug in did not support my British battalions anyway I believe, as they have a different color scheme. Oh well ... maybe next time. :rolleyes:
Yeah. All those German artillery units in the rear could have been subjected to counter-battery fire and part of them prevented from supporting the infantry.
I really appreciate that sig of yours by the way ;)

[Heldenkaiser]

I really appreciate that sig of yours by the way ;)

Thanks! I confess I have a nagging suspicion that it may be apocryphal (there are also at least two versions with slightly different wording) ... but then it's at least well invented. :D

I also like the approach to complex problems expressed by another quote likewise attributed to Foch I believe, "de quoi s'agit-il" -- what's this about, what is the core of the problem? Helps to keep you on the right track. :shy:

[nemo]

I also like the approach to complex problems expressed by another quote likewise attributed to Foch I believe, "de quoi s'agit-il" -- what's this about, what is the core of the problem? Helps to keep you on the right track. :shy:
Des principes de la guerre (http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k86515g), page 13, quoting and taking the Prussian general Verdy du Vernois as an example of a no-nonsense approach to battlefield problems.

[Heldenkaiser]

Ah, the father of modern war gaming ... how fitting. :smoke:

[Heldenkaiser]

48 hours since I sent my first turn to my opponent ... and no reply. :upset:

[Veers]

48 hours since I sent my first turn to my opponent ... and no reply. :upset:

Heh. If you were to get a turn back from me in 48 hours you'd be one lucky chap. Hopefully he'll get back to you.

[Heldenkaiser]

But this is such a small file and a workshop game ... aren't we supposed to make this a priority? :surprise:

Anyway, I received his file shortly after I posted the message. :)

[Heldenkaiser]

I am embarrassed to report that I goofed twice this turn ... for one thing I didn't realize that the game under 3.2 no longer automatically saves a file at turn end. I read that somewhere, but forgot. So I have no screenshot to offer, I am afraid.

For another, I have so little experience with direct artillery bombardments (we never did that in the 2WIN workshop game!) that I was not aware, until now, that firing artillery that has moved burns the turn. I honestly was under the impression that only actual face-to-face combat reduces the fraction of the turn left ... in other words, after I had fired my guns, I had only one 30% of my turn or one round of combats left. Which painfully prevented me from really exploiting my advantage after having gained a lot of ground in this one combat round. And I also, naturally, ended up with all units that had fought in this one round not being dug in. :OHNO:

Anyway, we advanced on a broad front this turn with all British, Canadian and Polish units that became available. Engineers repaired all bridges along the river. The British 4th Division advanced to the Gothic line at Montecalvo and found the bridge intact! What piece of luck. On the coastal plains, my scout cars found a gap in the line, pushed aside some artillery and advanced almost the south bend of the Foglia river close to Pesaro. One German airborne battalion was encircled and eliminated by the infantry/armour advance in their wake. The Polish did not take Fano, however.

Loss penalty now 4:10 in my opponent's favour; still OD. I am not sure I was actually being credited with the 5 VP Urbino should have been worth. :rolleyes:

[Heldenkaiser]

... found this bmp snapshot in the "Saves" folder when cleaning up. Didn't realize the game did that. (I'd prefer the .sal file.)

Anyway it might give at least some idea of my T2.

What's "artillery operations" as a unit's special trait mean? Thx. :smoke:

http://home.arcor.de/Dierk_Walter/TOAW/T2.gif

[Telumar]

What's "artillery operations" as a unit's special trait mean? Thx. :smoke:



It can bombard.

[Heldenkaiser]

Simple enough! I didn't realize it warranted a special mentioning that artillery can bombard. :D

I just hadn't noticed it before. Here were units whose NATO icon was completely unfamiliar so I looked up their equipment and abilities. It was a mortar company.

[Telumar]

Simple enough! I didn't realize it warranted a special mentioning that artillery can bombard. :D

:laugh: jupp...

I just hadn't noticed it before. Here were units whose NATO icon was completely unfamiliar so I looked up their equipment and abilities. It was a mortar company.

Isn't it the symbol used by the US Army in WW2? Well, no NATO icon, but..

[JAMiAM]

... found this bmp snapshot in the "Saves" folder when cleaning up. Didn't realize the game did that. (I'd prefer the .sal file.)

The bmp snapshots are because you have the "Movies" Advanced Game Option set to "On". This will generate bmp files at the end of each turn. They can end up taking up a LOT of space on your hard drive, so it's best to use this sparingly, and/or purge old bmp files religiously, if they are not needed for an AAR, or strategy session.

[Heldenkaiser]

Thanks, Jamiam.

Another three days without a file from my opponent. I'll be on vacation 22 September to 6 October. Had we done a file a day, we could have finished the game before that ... but not with two files a week. :nervous:

[Telumar]

... found this bmp snapshot in the "Saves" folder when cleaning up. Didn't realize the game did that. (I'd prefer the .sal file.)

Anyway it might give at least some idea of my T2.


http://home.arcor.de/Dierk_Walter/TOAW/T2.gif

Btw, it doesn't look bad. He still might slip away en masse to defend behind the 'Fiume Foglia', but your western flank looks promising, it's here where he is the weakest in the beginning. Don't follow the northwestern route once you're over the river. Try to head directly north and into the plains (where your strong mechanized force can unfold their entire strength) the fastest you can.
And: As Nemo usually says: Klotzen, nicht kleckern ..if you want across the river!

[Heldenkaiser]

Ich kleckere nie. Bin ja noch nicht 80. :D

[Heldenkaiser]

Right. I didn't goof this time I think. We continued the advance on three axes, finding more gaps with the recon units and armoured spearheads and forming several new small pockets. Not all of them were subsequently eliminated but it can only be a question of time. (Overall, I find it more important to push on; they will fall anyway.) We assaulted the Gothic Line at Montecalvo several times. One attempts was costly, we lost an entire battalion in the assault; but on the last of three combat rounds we managed to breach the fortifications and push even one hex beyond with a tank battalion. Also, the Poles finally fought their way into Fano in this round.

Below are snapshots after the first round (70% left), second (40%) and after turn end.
I noticed some enemy troops on hilltops (for instance the eastern infantry battalion in the pocket southeast of Montecalvo) cannot be assaulted--what am I doing wrong? Thx. :)

http://home.arcor.de/dierk_walter/TOAW/T3_70.gif

http://home.arcor.de/dierk_walter/TOAW/T3_40.gif

http://home.arcor.de/dierk_walter/TOAW/T3_end.gif

[Telumar]

I noticed some enemy troops on hilltops (for instance the eastern infantry battalion in the pocket southeast of Montecalvo) cannot be assaulted--what am I doing wrong? Thx. :)



You don't have enough MPs remaining. In this special case there is also an escarpment if i have seen it right - this further increases MP costs to enter and thus order an attack on the hex.

[Goliath]

And: As Nemo usually says: Klotzen, nicht kleckern ..if you want across the river!

What would be an english equivalent of that? My high-school german is a little (or rather more than a little :nuts:) rusty!

[Goliath]

Below are snapshots after the first round (70% left), second (40%) and after turn end.


Looking good! What loss tolerances are you using? I'm in the middle of my turn 2, now experimenting with direct artillery (BTW thanks for all advice, Nemo et al :)), and have consumed 20% in my first two rounds, despite using Minimize losses. It might be that I have misjudged movement spent (I usually use the "Turn used, Combats planned"-indicator to see if I'm on track), but I have a feeling it might have to do with direct artillery :shy:

[Heldenkaiser]

What would be an english equivalent of that? My high-school german is a little (or rather more than a little :nuts:) rusty!

It's German Panzer General Guderian's famous motto (reckon you knew that ... :shy:). My dictionary gives the English meaning as "to do things in a big way", "to think big". Literally "kleckern" is to spill, to splash, to dribble; what it means here is waste your power by splitting your force up in small bits. A "Klotz" is a great lump of something; "klotzen" is to place such a great lump, so the opposite of "kleckern".

What Guderian was advocating, of course, was using armour concentrated rather than in direct support of the infantry. :)

[Heldenkaiser]

Looking good! What loss tolerances are you using? I'm in the middle of my turn 2, now experimenting with direct artillery (BTW thanks for all advice, Nemo et al :)), and have consumed 20% in my first two rounds, despite using Minimize losses. It might be that I have misjudged movement spent (I usually use the "Turn used, Combats planned"-indicator to see if I'm on track), but I have a feeling it might have to do with direct artillery :shy:

My understanding is that ML should as a rule burn 10% of your attack, LL, 20%, IL, 30%, provided all else works perfectly--which obviously it rarely does. Each "Allies continue the attack" message in the combat report means you burn 10% more than you should have. Of course, a miscalculation of MP remaining in even one attacking unit can hurt you even more.

When I really want to go forward, as I want here, but still care for the casualties, I use LL as a rule; in fact that's the only thing I used here so far. IL I use on the attack only on the last round of a turn when I really need a particular piece of real estate for the advance next turn. ML when the attack is just to soften up with the artillery, or to support another attack, in which case I also combine it with LA to hold my ground with the supporting unit and minimize casualties even more. (LA is with 1/2 the effort and takes 1/2 the casualties.) :)

[nemo]

What would be an english equivalent of that? My high-school german is a little (or rather more than a little :nuts:) rusty!
Smash, do not spatter :smoke:
Heldenkaiser has the gist of it.

[Telumar]

My understanding is that ML should as a rule burn 10% of your attack, LL, 20%, IL, 30%, provided all else works perfectly--which obviously it rarely does. Each "Allies continue the attack" message in the combat report means you burn 10% more than you should have. Of course, a miscalculation of MP remaining in even one attacking unit can hurt you even more.

When I really want to go forward, as I want here, but still care for the casualties, I use LL as a rule; in fact that's the only thing I used here so far. IL I use on the attack only on the last round of a turn when I really need a particular piece of real estate for the advance next turn. ML when the attack is just to soften up with the artillery, or to support another attack, in which case I also combine it with LA to hold my ground with the supporting unit and minimize casualties even more. (LA is with 1/2 the effort and takes 1/2 the casualties.) :)

Just some additional words about loss tolerances.

Units which attack on ignore losses don't automatically burn 30% of the turn, it could still be less, but this is rarely the case. The only thing that influences this is indeed the 'continue attack' message. Units on Ignore Losses will just be more likely not to break off their attack early despite heavy losses.

Units on minimise losses will be more likely to break off their attack in the face of losses, even the slightest losses due to enemy defensive artillery fire can cause them to break off. The result is that your unit took some losses, lost supply and you used up a combat round without hurting the enemy in any way.
Therefore sometimes it can be better to attack with Limited losses instead of 'Minimise Losses'; from my experience especially if you attack small units with bigger ones (i.e. Regt vs Btn.) and/or the defenders are well backed up with artillery and/or air support. You will probably suffer more losses than the enemy but you will push him out of his position, forcing him into retreated or routed deployment and thus making follow-up attacks easier and increase his losses while minimising yours. There is really no use in attacking with 'Minimize losses' if you can't hurt the defender due to break-offs. This means exceeding a certain loss treshold (to achieve any results) will be necessary sometimes.

I use minimise losses/lim.Att. always in the beginning of my turn to probe and soften up, discover weak spots etc. Generally it's towards the end of the turn that my attacks become 'heavier'.

EDIT: One must be carefull. Play the GAME, not the ENGINE.

[Heldenkaiser]

There is really no use in attacking with 'Minimize losses' if you can't hurt the defender due to break-offs. This means exceeding a certain loss treshold (to achieve any results) will be necessary sometimes.

Makes sense! Thanks for the explanation, Stefan. :)

[Heldenkaiser]

You don't have enough MPs remaining. In this special case there is also an escarpment if i have seen it right - this further increases MP costs to enter and thus order an attack on the hex.

Thx for that as well. So I understand that on the start of the new turn I should be able to assault these hexes? :cool:

[Telumar]

Thx for that as well. So I understand that on the start of the new turn I should be able to assault these hexes? :cool:

Sic est !

[Chuck]

Immediately after I closed the move, I realized that I should have used much more of the artillery for direct bombardements. All those guns I dug in did not support my British battalions anyway I believe, as they have a different color scheme.

I'm don't know the specifics here, but the Commonwealth AGRA formations should support attacks - even attacks by the Polish units with the red background color. Keeping them dug in or on tactical support is probably a good idea.

[Heldenkaiser]

Thanks, Chuck. :)

What's AGRA mean? Meaning to ask anyway. :shy:

[Telumar]

Army Group Royal Artillery. :)

[Heldenkaiser]

Thanks as always, Stefan.

I have watched the replay of your Kharkov turn this evening ... it's DESASTER written all over it. Oh well. :OHNO:

As an update regarding my game with Pasha, I received a note from him saying he had to spend some time in the hospital. We haven't done a turn in the last two weeks and it seems our game could be even more delayed. I still hope we can finish it at some point. :)