Out of supply ... still pushing on

[Heldenkaiser]

Currently playing RTM1 against Stefan (Telumar), I can but marvel at the efficiency of my armoured spearheads which keep going for days on end with absolutely no supply. 3% is the figure for my frontline combat units and has been for days. It doesn't keep them at all from waltzing over all Russian units they encounter. Nor does it slow down their speed substantially. If supply can be so blatantly disregarded in TOAW, I wonder how that matches with the high importance the contemporaries attached to logistics. Being out of supply hardly seems a penalty at all here. :surprise:

I would appreciate all comments from a historical or gameplay perspective. :)

[Bob Cross]

Currently playing RTM1 against Stefan (Telumar), I can but marvel at the efficiency of my armoured spearheads which keep going for days on end with absolutely no supply. 3% is the figure for my frontline combat units and has been for days. It doesn't keep them at all from waltzing over all Russian units they encounter. Nor does it slow down their speed substantially. If supply can be so blatantly disregarded in TOAW, I wonder how that matches with the high importance the contemporaries attached to logistics. Being out of supply hardly seems a penalty at all here. :surprise:

I would appreciate all comments from a historical or gameplay perspective. :)

Your assumptions about what the unit supply levels mean are erroneous. You aren't "out of supply" under those conditions. It's far more complicated.

See this discussion at Matrix:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1515321

[Joao Lima]

...
I would appreciate all comments from a historical or gameplay perspective. :)

Ah well, always fun these discussions and how they keep coming back... :devious:

From a gameplay perspective, if playing against the PO, keep pushing, it does pay to disregard supply, just demolish the PO with those 1% supply units! Rock on! (puts flame suit on...)

Against a human opponent, keep an eye, a smart human opponent might do some serious damage to those units.

Historically wise, ah well there are views on that to suit all possible tastes an interpretations... Some will tell it's not historical , other will tell you that it's the greatest supply system ever seen , with very clever and cunning abstractions (again to suit all tastes and flavours...) (adds second layer of flame suit) :cheeky:

The Matrix discussion that Bob pointed to should give an idea of the above...

[Heldenkaiser]

Relieved to know it's more complex ... or, wait, "complicated". I love complicated things. :D

Thanks for pointing me to the said debate ... even more confused now ... will have to re-read when I'm less tired. :nervous:

However, as apparantely the gist of the matter is that 1% supply doesn't mean a unit has 1% of it's maximum supply capacity ... what DOES it mean? If someone would explain it to me in maximum three sentences, assuming that I'm just a five-year old with an interest in wargaming? I'd be really grateful. :shy:

[Heldenkaiser]

Against a human opponent, keep an eye, a smart human opponent might do some serious damage to those units.

How? I'd assume Stefan is smart. :smoke:
Thanks!

[Joao Lima]

...
However, as apparantely the gist of the matter is that 1% supply doesn't mean a unit has 1% of it's maximum supply capacity ... what DOES it mean? If someone would explain it to me in maximum three sentences, assuming that I'm just a five-year old with an interest in wargaming? I'd be really grateful. :shy:

Quoting from Jamian's reply on the thread at Matrix forums:

Simply, it means the baseline level of supply that a unit in continuous action and with a line of communication can be expected to sustain for indefinite lengths of time.

[Joao Lima]

How? I'd assume Stefan is smart. :smoke:
Thanks!

By aiming is attacks directly at them.

[Heldenkaiser]

I read the entire thread at Matrix (took me an hour) ... I am pretty sure I now understand what the supply percentage figure does, supposedly, NOT mean; though I am not all sure I understand what it DOES mean. :nervous:

Anyway I am surprised that this should be so difficult to answer and allow for widely different interpretations by intelligent and informed people. :OHNO:

And it's certainly counter-intuitive to assume that 1% supply does not mean a unit has 1% supply but rather it does have all the supply it needs to keep going .... when there are supply levels up to 100% and beyond! :surprise:

But never mind, I'll just learn to FEEL better than I do now when being at 1-3% supply, whatever it means. :shy:

Thanks for the replies, Gentlemen. :)

[Joao Lima]

...

Anyway I am surprised that this should be so difficult to answer and allow for widely different interpretations by intelligent and informed people. :OHNO:
...

The best interpretation is certainly :

Simply put, it is the point where Jesus Christ gets into uniform and starts feeding the 5,000 howitzers.

[sPzAbt653]

If someone would explain it to me in maximum three sentences

If I don't look at the percentages, it is all very easy, just watch the colour codes. Green, orange, red, it's not about percentages, green good, red bad. No supply means you are cut off, watching percentages is for bean counters, not me.

[Heldenkaiser]

Green, orange, red, it's not about percentages, green good, red bad.

Yes! Thanks.

Apparantely, though, what got me confused in the first place is that red is not quite as bad as I thought it ought to be. :shy:

[sPzAbt653]

I would agree with that, there maybe should be a level 'black' below red, to indicate 'cut off' and nothing coming.

[a white rabbit]

..there does come a point in some, very few, scens where you go beyond the supply distance sufficient to have no supply. You know this when not surrounded you lose the ability to disband. comes as quite a shock..

..otherwise, me too, after 10years playing, i still think the supply needs fixing, or designers should be less generous. The last may be because it's only recently we got extra events making create/remove supply points more possible..

[Veers]

..there does come a point in some, very few, scens where you go beyond the supply distance sufficient to have no supply. You know this when not surrounded you lose the ability to disband. comes as quite a shock..
As I understand what you said, I disagree. You will never run past the maximum distance an SP can provide supply to, as there is no maximum distance. The situations you encountered where you thought this was happening you likely had your supply cut from you by your opponent, using ZOCs, or from crossing badlands, or dunes. You could, of course, provide specific examples so that we could explain exactly what is going on...


..otherwise, me too, after 10years playing, i still think the supply needs fixing, or designers should be less generous. The last may be because it's only recently we got extra events making create/remove supply points more possible..
The supply system could use tweaking, but this is likely far into the future.

[Karri]

Yes! Thanks.

Apparantely, though, what got me confused in the first place is that red is not quite as bad as I thought it ought to be. :shy:

That depends. When an unit in red is facing a fresh unit, it makes a world of difference...on the attack, it makes quite hard to push on. On the defence it causes evaporations and extra problems.


Let's just say I rather have fresh than 1% suply units.