An open challenge to ER Chaser!

[Nemesis Lead]

OK ER Chaser! You were looking for me. Here I am! :laugh:

Here are the parameters. You pick the side you want to play:

The history....in June 1941, Germany decides not to attack Russia. However, in September 1941....the Russians decide to invade Germany!

1) CMBB, 1500 point Allied Attack.

2) September 1941, Central Front.

3) Combined Arms. Nationality and quality are unrestricted.

4) Large map, standard rarity.

5) Time is mid-day, temperature is cool.

6) Weather is overcast. Wind is still.

7) Game length is 38 turns with a variable ending.

8) Terrain is rural, moderate trees, small hills, and no damage.

9) Extreme fog of war.

Special rules:

1) No buying Battalions or Regiment sized organizations. The largest unit you can buy is a company.

2) The Russians cannot buy KV Tanks (they cannot easily be killed)

[ER_Chaser]

haha... thanks, Jay. I will gladly take you on when I am done with my current games with Scott :) I am kinda running at my limit now, but once these are off, I will have time to deal with your threat :)

[Lurker]

haha... thanks, Jay. I will gladly take you on when I am done with my current games with Scott :) I am kinda running at my limit now, but once these are off, I will have time to deal with your threat :)Ahh, the fur is going to fly! Better stock up on body bags.:ar15::horse::D

[mangus2000]

They will have to keep an AAR for this one definately:D, should be an intersting game.

Why have the defenders got the +10% force advantage over the attakers though?

[Nemesis Lead]

Mangus,

Just a balance move--Russian units in CMBB are very cheap.

Obviously, I am trying to be fair since I don't know which side I will be playing!

[Nemesis Lead]

ER--you defeated Scot (twice!)! Are you ready to play?

You pick the side you want to play.

[ER_Chaser]

I was just lucky in those two games, plus Scott usually plays AK rather than BB. That was his first time playing BB.

Of course, I will read your setup carefully and pick a side and we can start shooting each other :)

[ER_Chaser]

Sounds all cool to me, one thing about the map, do you want a pre-set map or a random map?

What I meant is that if we want a pre-set map, probably we should agree on the map first before picking sides ---- just to avoid any confusions.

[Nemesis Lead]

Just a random map!

[ER_Chaser]

Cool, Jay, I will be out early tomorrow morning, and be back on Tuesday night, I hope we can get started then. :)

[ER_Chaser]

OK, Jay, I just sent you a file according to the following terms with a random map, Good Luck! :)
I am taking the attacking Russian side.
(oh, btw, I figure that usual house rule of no first turn arty on the setup zone applies automatically anyways, right?)

OK ER Chaser! You were looking for me. Here I am! :laugh:

Here are the parameters. You pick the side you want to play:

The history....in June 1941, Germany decides not to attack Russia. However, in September 1941....the Russians decide to invade Germany!

1) CMBB, 1500 point Allied Attack.

2) September 1941, Central Front.

3) Combined Arms. Nationality and quality are unrestricted.

4) Large map, standard rarity.

5) Time is mid-day, temperature is cool.

6) Weather is overcast. Wind is still.

7) Game length is 38 turns with a variable ending.

8) Terrain is rural, moderate trees, small hills, and no damage.

9) Extreme fog of war.

Special rules:

1) No buying Battalions or Regiment sized organizations. The largest unit you can buy is a company.

2) The Russians cannot buy KV Tanks (they cannot easily be killed)

[ER_Chaser]

ooops, email is returned. Maybe I did not update your address correctly. Anyway, I will send you a PM soon. Plus here is the setup file, we can start from here ---- have fun! :)

[Nemesis Lead]

I sent you a reply file. I will not shell your set up zone on turn 1, but you are welcome to shell mine!

good luck

[ER_Chaser]

trust me, I WILL :)

Good luck, buddy! :)

[kawaiku]

Are you guys gonna do an AAR for us?

[ER_Chaser]

LOL .. it is in turn 13 or so ... still no fire fight yet .... I guess everybody will be disappointed hearing that ... and here is the AAR up to this point:

NL has built ... well, a jail, IMHO, for his boyz ... so that they cannot go out for a wild night or something ---- he argues, but the bottomline is that he build an almost complete circle of barbed wire fence around the flags .... Definitely one of its kind ---- at least first time for me to see.

As for me, I am, hkhmm.., according NL, mimicing NL's all SMG/Mortar strategy and since all of his boyz were kept in that Jail, nice and safe, I just let my boyz run around the whole map freely ---- at least for some fun. :)

Now some of my dudes are trying to climb the Jail wall to get in... dunno what is gonna happen next --- he probably prepared something nasty for me. :)

[Nemesis Lead]

ER....dont forget to send you next file!

;-)

[Lurker]

A barbed wire prison? I never thought of that! :hmmm:
I hope you brought some of those long range T flamers. :D

[Taktik]

1941 Russian inf going over wire under fire...sounds ugly. I hope you have at least some vet sqds, ER. Early war Russian inf need lots and lots of vodka to push the fight forward otherwise they'd rather head back to thier potatoe farms.

Smoke would help. Lots of smoke and vodka. This way they have really no chance of knowing where they are going and might panick in the correct direction and effect an overrun on German positions.

[ER_Chaser]

Smoke I do not know ... (the white things are still too much to allow in the Army) ... but ye, Vodka, plenty! :D ...

[Viga]

hm excuse my stupid question but what the hell ER is? :P

btw it took hours to find a forum about CMBB

[Viga]

lol actually i just figured it out =)

cant wait to play some games with another humans (never did it once)

[ER_Chaser]

LOL :devil:

[Viga]

ER may i challenge you after this one? ;P

(im a jackie chan's fan! :D)

[ER_Chaser]

Kongfu or CMBB? :)

Of course, buddy :) But BTW, that picture is ME! :p ~_*

[Viga]

CMBB =)

so far defending with germans is my specialty =P

i stoped an allied assault of 600 men with 200 men and 9 of my fellas died :P

not bad right? :)

[ER_Chaser]

Not bad? Excellent that is! :)

[2054172]

But how good could a Brazillian be? :nuts::smoke:

[Lurker]

But how good could a Brazillian be? :nuts::smoke:I don't know numbers, if he plays CM like they play soccer then we're in for a lot of hurt! :eek:

Hey Viga, if you're a noob then don't take Wayne the wrong way. He likes to poke and prod to see what kind of reaction he will get. :stirthepot: He's really not so bad...after he's been knocked unconcious that is. :laugh: ;)

[ER_Chaser]

I don't know numbers, if he plays CM like they play soccer then we're in for a lot of hurt! :eek:

Hey Viga, if you're a noob then don't take Wayne the wrong way. He likes to poke and prod to see what kind of reaction he will get. :stirthepot: He's really not so bad...after he's been knocked unconcious that is. :laugh: ;)

LOL ...exactly! and what is more, Brazil cannot be discounted on many other accounts these days ---- if I, or you, traded BRL against USD a couple of years back with really modest investment, we would have been RICH already :p ...
(oh, even if we did CAD against USD, well, but that will only make us richer, but not rich :D )

[Viga]

lol i dont mind these comments.
this country is not that bad. its just the income disparity in some regions, wich are always on TV (poor ppl are easily manipulated by mainstream as you probably know
so the best part is not shown)

Br's are usually a pain in the ass when it comes to internet mainly because TV says we are the best.
well my knowledge of other cultures are mostly Bias too.

anyway back to the CMBB stuff, first yes i am not very experienced in CMBB. but my knowledge of strategy cannot be neglected. at least the AI never breakes my lines. i am part of Brazil's armed forces myself right now (still a private :P ) i study geography and i love Chess :P.

so ER_Chaser when you have free time tell me ;)

and BTW how is this battle going?

[Lurker]

...and i love Chess That part caught my eye. Check out our chess page at GS http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=272

We just finished a small tournament and could use some new players for the next one.

[Viga]

tournament? i dont know =P
im not really THAT good ;P

dont know why but, i got a feeling that this thread is about a challenge of 2 guys, and we ran away from that main topic =P

fast replies here ;P

[ER_Chaser]

tournament? i dont know =P
im not really THAT good ;P

dont know why but, i got a feeling that this thread is about a challenge of 2 guys, and we ran away from that main topic =P

fast replies here ;P

because those "two guys" ain't no fun! :D

As for the battle being, it is now in 20 something turns, NL murdered a couple of my great brave russian male servants. Well, cannot blame him for that, I am also breaking his stupid jail fence anyway :D

But not so much to say, I still have plenty of cannon fodders to give, and he still has plenty of wired barbs in front of them ---- well, literally, the same amount as before :D

And this week will be inactive, as NL is out on a business trip ---- (which means, if any1 of you figures out his pwd, we can mince him ... lol )

[Viga]

i dont know why. i think its me but, my enemies never run into the barbed wires they always choose another way no matter how hidden the wire is =/.

i just won a quick battle against AI none of my troops had ammo but still i won a tactical victory ;P

[ER_Chaser]

but what if the barbed wires form a CLOSED circle ? A Completely full one? :D ... You think what is a jail?

[Viga]

lol

does it have mines?

[ER_Chaser]

lol

does it have mines?

You will have to ask NL for that ... I couldn;t tell ...

(and if he tells you the truth by any chance, please slip a PM for me buddy :D )

[Taktik]

Hi Viga,

Sorry for not responding, but sure, I'll play you in a game of BB. Send a file along if you like. No night fights, though, please.

As for Brazil, the women are fantastic, from what I've seen. You could say beautiful women are ANY country's best "ass"ets, but Brazil seems to shine in that department.

Lurker, I have a new address since my old one is kaput, atm. vonwike1@hotmail.com. Send me an email.

BTW, Viga, regarding your name. Is that taken from a book by anychance? Means "killer" in norse(scandanavian) or some such, yes?

[Viga]

actually my name has an weird story ;P

it all began with "Alegrete" wich was my nickname.
its the place i was born. somehow it became Viga =P

[2054172]

I don't know numbers, if he plays CM like they play soccer then we're in for a lot of hurt! :eek:

Hey Viga, if you're a noob then don't take Wayne the wrong way. He likes to poke and prod to see what kind of reaction he will get. :stirthepot: He's really not so bad...after he's been knocked unconcious that is. :laugh: ;)

Well Lucker knows me rather well it seems.:OHNO:

LOL ...exactly! and what is more, Brazil cannot be discounted on many other accounts these days ---- if I, or you, traded BRL against USD a couple of years back with really modest investment, we would have been RICH already :p ...
(oh, even if we did CAD against USD, well, but that will only make us richer, but not rich :D )

Er wise as usal.:cool:

lol i dont mind these comments.
this country is not that bad. its just the income disparity in some regions, wich are always on TV (poor ppl are easily manipulated by mainstream as you probably know
so the best part is not shown)

Br's are usually a pain in the ass when it comes to internet mainly because TV says we are the best.
well my knowledge of other cultures are mostly Bias too.

anyway back to the CMBB stuff, first yes i am not very experienced in CMBB. but my knowledge of strategy cannot be neglected. at least the AI never breakes my lines. i am part of Brazil's armed forces myself right now (still a private :P ) i study geography and i love Chess :P.

so ER_Chaser when you have free time tell me ;)

and BTW how is this battle going?

Sir I tip my hat you, you are a good sort and i welcome you here, i wish things were better here. These guys are great and i hope you find the fight you are looking for. Now watch that Lurker he is a chess nut and i can say one of the best players around.;):smoke:

[Viga]

maybe i could challenge that chess nut ;)

in a game of chess of course
then CMBB :P

[ER_Chaser]

maybe i could challenge that chess nut ;)

in a game of chess of course
then CMBB :P
NO, you canNOT.

[Viga]

lol why not? ;P

[ER_Chaser]

try it, you will see :)

[2054172]

We are all taking cover!:eek::shock::scream:

[Lurker]

They are worried you will like the Chess page too much and abandon CM. That's all.

[ER_Chaser]

They are worried you will like the Chess page too much and abandon CM. That's all.

hehe .. haha ... hkmm....hhmm......:lier::lier::lier:

[Viga]

lol i challenge you :P ER

[Nemesis Lead]

because those "two guys" ain't no fun! :D

As for the battle being, it is now in 20 something turns, NL murdered a couple of my great brave russian male servants. Well, cannot blame him for that, I am also breaking his stupid jail fence anyway :D

But not so much to say, I still have plenty of cannon fodders to give, and he still has plenty of wired barbs in front of them ---- well, literally, the same amount as before :D

And this week will be inactive, as NL is out on a business trip ---- (which means, if any1 of you figures out his pwd, we can mince him ... lol )

Hehe--ER's file rate has dropped a bit. I think he really is trying to crack my password! :clown:

The battle continues. I am waiting for ER's artillery to fall. We will see if I get smoke or HE. :devious:

[ER_Chaser]

hehe , NL has been complaining that he did not see my tanks ... well, cannot tell him right now, because most of them were probably already behind his lines!!

[ER_Chaser]

oh as for ARTY, you will get everything you want, NL :devil:

[Nemesis Lead]

The battle continues--we are on turn 25 of 38+. ER's men have made valiant attempts to penetrate my wire in about 5 places. All 5 attempts have been thrown back (although I did allow one squad to cross in order to lure others into the wire). I have no idea what kind of casualties I am inflicting, but if I had to guess I would say he is taking moderate casualties (but the bigger issue is that his men are panicking and becoming combat ineffective). My losses have been very light and many of my men have not fired a shot.

I think his first wave was just to identify my positions with low quality troops and to try to get a beachead on the other side of my wire. Now that my positions are identified, his artillery is getting registered on my men and ER has reinforcements (probably high quality) streaming into the battle. My men are moving around on defense trying to dodge his artillery!

Still no sight of any armor. I am guessing he has none. However, he probably has 3 infantrymen for every one that I have!

[Taktik]

With fully enclosed wire, human waves, arty and such sounds like one of those firebase Gloria movies or something.

Post pics!

[Nemesis Lead]

Happy to show screenshots at the end of the game. Right now, such screenies would be an intelligence bonanza for the other guy!

[ER_Chaser]

LOL .... Mr. Confidence :) If you are so confident that I had "moderate" casaulty and your boyz "fired no shots" and I have "no armor" ... why are you still afraid of posting some of the pictures of your nice jail ? :)
Com'on, the inmates weren't being abused, xxxxually, right? :devil:

[Nemesis Lead]

Your men will see the inside of my "jail" soon enough!

Err---the ones who survive anyway!

[Viga]

rofl cant wait to see some pictures of this xD

[Viga]

are you guys inactive at the moment? ;P

[Nemesis Lead]

We had slowed down for the holidays and ER just started a new job.

We are in about the same place as before--artillery is starting to fall on me and his reinforcements are moving toward my wire!

[Viga]

i wonder how this "jail" looks like ;P

[2054172]

i wonder how this "jail" looks like ;P

Well knowing Nemesis it is most likely a jail with alot of half dressed men, in black leather and whips. :nuts:

:smoke:

[Nemesis Lead]

Wrong--my men have no clothes on (not half dressed), but each man has an MG42 (not a whip!). :devious:

[Lurker]

Wrong--my men have no clothes on (not half dressed), but each man has an MG42 (not a whip!). :devious:Naked machine gunners?? Now that's a disturbing image! :eek:

[Viga]

Naked machine gunners?? Now that's a disturbing image! :eek:

ROFL!!!

still better than whips =P

[Lurker]

So if you happened upon a MG nest that was populated with naked MGers and caught them unawares, would your first reaction be to shoot them or to laugh?

[Viga]

i would shoot laughing. ;)

[2054172]

So if you happened upon a MG nest that was populated with naked MGers and caught them unawares, would your first reaction be to shoot them or to laugh?

Seeing this would only happen if Nemesis was thier leader.:nuts: I don't think it could happen.
I guess that I would shoot laughing also.:bite::bite:

[Nemesis Lead]

I think that Wayne would try to sneak a peak at my men. When he looks down, my boys would hose him down with MG 42 fire like the psycho hosebeast that he is!

Look at the guy in Wayne's avatar. What is he looking down at and smiling? FYI, Canadian troops dont wear pants.

I should talk--my avatar is the worst of all!

[Viga]

oh i just noticed that the guy is canadian!.

i didnt know they could operate computers :P

[Nemesis Lead]

The US has a lively trade with Canada. We sent them computers and other high technology and they send us hockey sticks, moose statues, axe handles, toliet paper and other wood products. 70% of the population are lumberjacks. The other 30% are adult entertainers, hockey players, seal clubers, and beer testers.

Proximity to the US has allowed some Canadians to evolve in the same manner as apes. 2054172 is prime specimen of the species "Canadius Sloped Fore-headus."

[Viga]

The US has a lively trade with Canada. We sent them computers and other high technology and they send us hockey sticks, moose statues, axe handles, toliet paper and other wood products. 70% of the population are lumberjacks. The other 30% are adult entertainers, hockey players, seal clubers, and beer testers.

Proximity to the US has allowed some Canadians to evolve in the same manner as apes. 2054172 is prime specimen of the species "Canadius Sloped Fore-headus."

you just cannot be more clear than that.

it explains a lot of **** :) thanks.

[Lurker]

The US has a lively trade with Canada. We sent them computers and other high technology and they send us hockey sticks, moose statues, axe handles, toliet paper and other wood products. 70% of the population are lumberjacks. The other 30% are adult entertainers, hockey players, seal clubers, and beer testers.

Proximity to the US has allowed some Canadians to evolve in the same manner as apes. 2054172 is prime specimen of the species "Canadius Sloped Fore-headus."Careful - if you rattle his cage too loudly he might spit at you...or worse.

[Lurker]

It's been awfully quiet on this front. Is everybody dead? :hush:

[Nemesis Lead]

Battle just ended--a minor victory for me.

I wrote up an AAR. A great fight by ER!

[Viga]

good now ER can fight me :P

[ER_Chaser]

hmm.... oh, well, it seems that the battle already ends... :(
I was planning to go home earlier today to play out my "turn" for you, Jay :) ...But it turns out even better, I do not have to do that any more :)
Good news ends here I guess. And the bad news is that after all that effort, I just get this lousy minor defeat??!!! :mad:

:)

[ER_Chaser]

Nemesis Lead comments: Good. Very enjoyable.

ER attacked me with early-war Russians. He adopted a variant of my "SMG infantry with heavy mortar support" strategy that I once attacked him with. As a result, he had a huge infantry superiority over me (5 infantry companies and 1 infantry platoon for him to my 2 infantry companies).

I expected this move and countered with a barbed wire barrier that was almost completely enclosed (I did have one opening of about 200 meters across in an open field--sadly I did not have enough wire to completely enclose my positions). Behind this wire, I had 2 veteran infantry companies, 9 75mm infantry guns and 4 75mm AT Guns.

ER probed my wire at many points early in the game and I threw these thrusts back easily. However, he identified my positions which he then pummelled with mortar and artillery fire. This was horrible. I lost some AT guns and infantry guns that never fired a shot. I also lost a lot of men.

Later in the game ER attacked the opening in my barbed wire with better than an infantry company (he brilliantly snuck them into position--I did not see them approach despite having a lot of men in the area). Due to his mortar and artillery fire (as well as fire from his 1 T-34 tank), this attack broke through even though he was forced to attack across an open field! I had to pull reserves from other parts of my MLR and this caused my defense to fail in one other area as ER penetrated directly through my wire with heavy losses.

ER was getting very, very happy in his emails to me and began to ask me about surrender!

However, I knew ER was in serious trouble and told him to expect a "surprise." I have played the SMG/Mortar strategy many times and know its one fatal weakness (I once lost a game once because of it). This strategy causes one to go through ammo very quickly and one's force will reach a "low ammo ceasefire" after about 10-20 turns of intense combat. This is exactly what happened to ER as he used his ammo very intensively. As his men pushed toward victory, I just tried to hold him back by giving ground (to preserve my meager force) and forcing him to expend ammunition. As a result, the game ended at the end of turn 39 of a 38+ game.

As it was, the ceasefire came one turn too late for me to get a major or total victory (ER grabbed a small flag and disputed a major flag in the last couple turns). However, had the game gone on another turn or two and I would have lost as ER was closing on some other flags!

A great game by ER! I have asked him to switch sides and play again.

__________________________________________________ __

I just went over the battle report session and copied it here so that everybody can read it with ease. I will write up my thoughts in the next post.

[ER_Chaser]

Nemesis Lead comments: Good. Very enjoyable.

ER attacked me with early-war Russians. He adopted a variant of my "SMG infantry with heavy mortar support" strategy that I once attacked him with. As a result, he had a huge infantry superiority over me (5 infantry companies and 1 infantry platoon for him to my 2 infantry companies).
.
Indeed, it is a very unique game I played . The setup and everything are so usual, but with Jay's invention of that jail, things become very interesting.

The SMG + Mortar actually again is proven to be extremely powerful in this game, which I will comment throughout this post. Jay, thanks for teaching me this technique, man :)

On the infantry superiority, one more point to be added here: it is also due to NL's own decision to employ only some infantry. (he could buy more infantry units, but he chose guns and jail equipments :D )


I expected this move and countered with a barbed wire barrier that was almost completely enclosed (I did have one opening of about 200 meters across in an open field--sadly I did not have enough wire to completely enclose my positions). Behind this wire, I had 2 veteran infantry companies, 9 75mm infantry guns and 4 75mm AT Guns.
.
The barbed wire is the key point for Jay's success in this game. However, I do not think it is a good idea in general. here is why:

In this game, as we see, the main reason for the defense' victory is that the side attacking run out of time. And this is actually due to the barbed wire tactics ---- but not due to its hard-slowing down power, the true reason is that it came in as a surprise and my pre-planed artillery strike was scheduled too late. In other words, I was too conservative in setting my strikes (man, I did not play this game for too long ), if I set the timing a couple of turns (actually the real progress would have allowed 10 turns earlier, but in reality, 5 turns would be good for general purpose) earlier, the result will be vitally different. I will come back to this point again.

The slowing down/defensive power of barbed wire is great ---- but as you noticed as well, Jay, very often, it is not going to be long enough to form a complete circle. The open land, I was very scared to go through it at the beginning. But on turn 14 or so, I had the full sight of all your "jail walls", and I counted them and then knew that you will have no more points to buy target reference points. That makes the open gap a lot safer and many other things easier for my infantry groups. This is the major disadvantage of explicit fixed defensive work. Besides the victory point penalty is not trivial either.

So at that time, I knew I could break through that open with my tank supporting my infantry core teams. Unfortunately I rather arbitarily set up my preplanned artillery at turn 26. So I had to wait until it got fired ---- I had to waste about 15 turns to wait for that (it took 4 turns to finish off the ammo) ---- that is the only reason why I launched my attacks so late in the game. (otherwise, these shells will kill my own units ---- I cannot even cancel those stupid setups.)


ER probed my wire at many points early in the game and I threw these thrusts back easily. However, he identified my positions which he then pummelled with mortar and artillery fire. This was horrible. I lost some AT guns and infantry guns that never fired a shot. I also lost a lot of men.
.

Yes, this probe using low quality troops was also your teaching, Jay :) And they are good. You had to let go some of your position since you won't know whether they are coming for real or not. Actually at some concentration points, I had enough force to overrun positions if you allow them to go further. So it is more or less a "must" trade-off of the two sides. The attacker will lose some of the force and points, but the defender will have to give away some of the positions. Fair trade.

The heavy artillery was preplanned. So it had nothing to do with the spotting. But the spotting helped my mortars to get a lot of your guns. Again, that was your tactics :)



Later in the game ER attacked the opening in my barbed wire with better than an infantry company (he brilliantly snuck them into position--I did not see them approach despite having a lot of men in the area). Due to his mortar and artillery fire (as well as fire from his 1 T-34 tank), this attack broke through even though he was forced to attack across an open field! I had to pull reserves from other parts of my MLR and this caused my defense to fail in one other area as ER penetrated directly through my wire with heavy losses.
.

You also mentioned about that sneaking units ---- I have no idea which direction you were talking about ---- even now. But there was no tricks there. I simply probed your position earlier and then choose to move the main force along wooded areas ---- maybe it is luck or something? No idea, but I do not see anything particular about that part.

The two front assault after the artillery strike was my typical style, like my signature :D I am glad to see it worked again. Yes, indeed the idea is to force the defense to shake its original plan, to deplete its reserves and to move from front to the other and thus create gaps. Do you still remember that first game we played, Jay? Where you mercilessly stopped both fronts of my attack? The idea was the same, but it did not work out at all that time since both front suffered unparalleled loss very early, I still remember in the first few turns I lost 2 tanks each on both sides.

This is where your SMG + mortar tactics comes in and shines. The infantry won't be knocked out in one shot and the mortar does not even have to make themselves visible to the enemy. As a result, it is extremely hard to stop this wave combined with that two frontal assault.


ER was getting very, very happy in his emails to me and began to ask me about surrender!
.
haha, I was half joking of course :D ... but indeed, I was pretty sure I can breakthrough whatever you had remaining ----- I knew you won't have much guns left since I can calculate the point-worth of the KOed guns and that is about how much you can buy. And I know you do not have TGP's ---- so the only thing you have left is your infantry to face off with mine. But that is a sure loss for poor german side, esp. in early war setup. And I have that T34 supporting without any serious challenge from you any more.

But I forgot one huge thing ---- no, actually, I did not even know that.



However, I knew ER was in serious trouble and told him to expect a "surprise." I have played the SMG/Mortar strategy many times and know its one fatal weakness (I once lost a game once because of it). This strategy causes one to go through ammo very quickly and one's force will reach a "low ammo ceasefire" after about 10-20 turns of intense combat. This is exactly what happened to ER as he used his ammo very intensively. As his men pushed toward victory, I just tried to hold him back by giving ground (to preserve my meager force) and forcing him to expend ammunition. As a result, the game ended at the end of turn 39 of a 38+ game.
.
This is the part that really really gets me :) Just like I said, I was planning to go home earlier today and pick up my victory ... but .. .again, NL beats me solid and square with his superior understanding of the game mechanics and experience. Salute to you, man :) And thank you again for teaching me one more important aspect of this game.

I thought I was not that good but at least somewhat good, but by playing with you, every time, you showed me that I know actually still too little about this game :)


As it was, the ceasefire came one turn too late for me to get a major or total victory (ER grabbed a small flag and disputed a major flag in the last couple turns). However, had the game gone on another turn or two and I would have lost as ER was closing on some other flags!
.
LOL ... 39 at 38+ is too late ? haha ... That is my point, if I had set my preplaned strike 5 turns earlier, the two near flags will be overrun for sure. So I am really not quite sure about the barbed wire strategy itself ---- however it worked prefectly out this time combined with my exact mistake :)


A great game by ER! I have asked him to switch sides and play again.
.
Thanks a lot, Jay. I enjoyed it a lot too.
As for that switch side state, what the F are you talking about?! .. haha .. just kidding, I probably won't have time to play two games at my current state ,as I already promised our brazilian friend a battle. More importantly, I do not think I would have a chance in defending in this setup. I have been quite frank in this statement, you can also see that ---- if the attacking side had not placed that late preplanned arty, the defense side will be overrun. And the attacking force still have pretty good margin to continue. In other words, I still think the setup favors the attacking side --- although you brilliantly defeated me :) ... So how dare I to take inferior side and face your challenge? :)

[Nemesis Lead]

Guys,

I will post some pics from our battle.

First, here is the opening in the barbed wire. I think some of you thought I had fully enclosed wire. I WANTED fully enclosed wire, but did not have enough points to do it. Hence, I had a 200 meter gap between the 2 red lines.

The area circled in orange is where ER launched his brilliant sneak attack. I thought that there was a platoon in this patch of trees. There was actually an infantry company. I did not even see them approach.

[Nemesis Lead]

This picture shows a typical section of barbed wire. The wire goes right over the hill in the background and there are no gaps in it. I am careful to not let the wire touch any terrain (which provides cover) except in 2 areas (circled in red). These areas provide the attacker with some cover, but they are death traps with lots of heavy weapons (in my case 75mm infantry guns) pointed at them.

ER brought up lots of mortars which worked well against my infantry guns.

[Nemesis Lead]

Here is a picture of one of ER's mortar positions. Newbies take note--mortars are lethal weapons and ER had 13 of them!

Note that a spotter looks over the hill and and finds targets for the mortars who then area fire at targets. The mortars can fire without fear of getting hit back (except for by artillery and I had none) and you never know where the shells are coming from. My only hope would have been to spot his spotter, and I never saw this guy.

[Nemesis Lead]

Here is a section of wire that was not held by many troops--a platoon could easily hold off a reinforced company. This is the great strength of barbed wire.

Note a couple things:

1) The enemy has cover 100 meters or more away from my position (red lines illustrate distance). This means that, if he shoots at me, he will have a hard time breaking my men. If the cover was 50 meters away from the wire, I would be in trouble because he could send troops into the wire, they would be shot, and then he could kill the shooters. In this case, his men would go into the wire, I would shoot them, and then he had a hard time killing my men because of the distance. Bascially, ER has to leave cover if he wants to put effective small arms fire on me. This will also cause him to waste ammo which was the centerpiece of my strategy.

2) There are many shell holes on ERs side (not all that visible, but many holes are there). I had fired 75mm infantry guns at his men. My guns inflicted decent casualties, but more importantly they panicked and broke his men. My infantry guns are further back so that they would not be affected by small arms.

[Taktik]

Did ER drop any smoke at any time?

BTW, thanks very much, guyz, for sharing your battle with us.

[Nemesis Lead]

Here is a great move by ER. In the first photo, you see what I saw. In the area circled in white, I thought ER had a platoon of infantry. In the area in red, he has some troops coming (looks like 1 more platoon), but as far as I can tell they are still back in the trees circled in blue. I think I have plenty of time to move my reserves into position, because I can see his men move across the open field between the blue and the white circles, right?

I was wrong. 2 turns later, you see what I saw--I never saw those guys move forward.

There was an infantry company (or more) in the "jumping off" trees and they attacked straight out into the open field! I was caught out of position as my reserves could not deploy in time to shoot his men in the open field.

Also note ER's tank in the background. I never saw or heard him move into position either.

[Lurker]

Did ER drop any smoke at any time?

BTW, thanks very much, guyz, for sharing your battle with us.If I'm not mistaken the only thing the Russians have that can lay smoke is OBA and US tanks. Too bad for the Russians!

[Taktik]

A couple of FOs can lay down a few curtians during the attack. Very useful.

[Nemesis Lead]

ER's surge worked. My reserves got into place too late and ER captured some terrain with SMG infantry. His pinko hordes are circled in pink. I have a thin blue line holding ER back. If the game continues, I will lose the 3 flags shown and lose the game as a result.

But ER is low on ammo and the low ammo ceasefire kicks in. Using barbed wire to force ER to engage in long range firefights (inflicting few casualties but wasting lots of his ammo) has worked.

[ER_Chaser]

I see. I do not know why you did not see them coming. I simply run my main force along a few wooded area toward the assembly point there. It is more than 1 company, near 2 actually.

[Nemesis Lead]

ER did use smoke from his 13 mortars. He had a 76mm artillery FO and he may have used smoke too, but I am not sure.

[Nemesis Lead]

I see. I do not know why you did not see them coming. I simply run my main force along a few wooded area toward the assembly point there. It is more than 1 company, near 2 actually.

Seriously--I never saw them move forward. Maybe the smoke blocked my LOS?

It was terrible to see all those men come running forward! I looked like this--:eek:

[ER_Chaser]

Thanks for the nice pics, NL.

Here is an overall battlefield picture to show all our positions at the end of battle. And I draw some lines to illustrate:
1) the red segment lines indicate the route I directed my main force through to the assault position.
2) the blue segment lines for T34 route.
You can see they are simply chosen by wood areas, so the cover worked out pretty good.

3) the green circles for other people to see my three mortar camps. The middle one is the most powerful group. The right side one is the one shown in NL's picture which claimed quite a few of his guns.

To answer the question about smokes, yes, I did use a lot of smokes. From my mortar, on average, each 82mm would have 4.5 smoke shells, and I had plenty of them.

I also have one 76mm FO, 3/4 of its rounds were consumed in HE, and 1/4 were prepared for smoke screen, unfortunately the battle ends before this was realized. (it was laying its final smoke screen to cover my SMG's final rush while the game ends :) )

[ER_Chaser]

oops, the picture....

hehe ... Jay, I wish I were in CA physically to witness your face then :)

[Lurker]

My Mistake - I wasn't thinking of the 82mm for smoke but the 50mm. I recall the 50 (for the Russians) had a ton of HE when compared to the German 50 and I thought that may be a very useful tool to have in large numbers. They are fairly cheap, if I remember right, and can ko guns.

[Taktik]

Yes, yes. Smoke is good. Think of the scene described in "The Cross of Iron".
(book, not movie, though I liked movie as well. Which doesn't happen often when book is rendered in a movie).

Heavy smoke settling on your lines, the approaching rumble and clank of tanks and vehicles. Then roaring shouts as figures dash out of the gray clouds, shooting, stabbing with bayonets. Tanks appear, crushing humans under their treads, strafing indiscriminately. Flame throwing tanks too, projecting jets of fiery death.

Tough on the defenders. Good stuff. Wouldn’t want to be there, though. Hehheh.

[ER_Chaser]

Comparing the 50mm to 82mm, I do not have much experience indeed, but 50mm does not have smoke which is a pretty bad thing for it. Since I could not afford many FOs, the mortar smoke is the major cover I will need, I chose 82mm.

NL, care to give us a brief lecture on 82mm vs. 50mm? I bet you had plenty of experience on that :)

[Lurker]

Comparing the 50mm to 82mm, I do not have much experience indeed, but 50mm does not have smoke which is a pretty bad thing for it. Since I could not afford many FOs, the mortar smoke is the major cover I will need, I chose 82mm.

NL, care to give us a brief lecture on 82mm vs. 50mm? I bet you had plenty of experience on that :)I do not have cmbb here in NYC with me so I'm only going from memory. I think they were less than half the 82mm price but with around 60 rnds of HE. The 82 has an advantage of greater suppression and breaking power, but limited ammo and is very slow to move, though much better range.

Each one probably has it's uses, though I would also like to hear NLs experience with them.

[Taktik]

NL, why the gap in your wire near your two big flags? Figured it was the least likely spot he would come (open terrain) and/or figured he would expect a trap and not go there in force?

ER, hindsight is always so obvious, but I would have picked more FOs for smoke (not really impressed with BB OBA for HE effect). Used it early to get a foothold over the wire. What the defender can't see he can't shoot. Also use it for a feint somewhere, too.

Clever use of smoke is very annoying when it is done to me.

[Nemesis Lead]

oops, the picture....

hehe ... Jay, I wish I were in CA physically to witness your face then :)

Ah--great pic--you can see my wire in blue and see the opening in the "jail." You also see ER's mortar positions.

As far as 50mm vs 82mm......I prefer 82mm as it can dig guns out of trenches. 1 82mm is better than 2 50mm, but Russian 50mm carries a TON of ammo.

When the 50mm comes as part of a company (discounted), however, it is worth every penny.

[Viga]

its just my humble oppinion but a lot of 50mm has aan incredible power . like 3 groups of 10 50mm will stop the infantry. i use it a lot and the infantry just cannot move.you can combine both 50 and 82 so the infantry will not move and you can knock out bigger stuff then you can use AT guns to stop the armor that occasionnaly will go through the mortars.
and of course some MG's to cover your weaker sides.

sometimes i dont even buy infantry, and buy a lot of mortars and MG's and the enemies wont even get out of their own starting positions :P

that makes the battlee a little bit boring sometimes.

[Viga]

BTW tell me when your ready for a match ER

same configuration as this battle but with moderate slopes and small town pelase ;p

[ER_Chaser]

LOL ... I will have time to play tomorrow. So we can start soon :)

But same setup? Do not know about you, but I certainly want to change a taste after playing with this map for like 2 months :D

[Viga]

lol okay you choose the map.

but can we have moderate trees or more? :P

we coulds start now i have free time :)

[Nemesis Lead]

NL, why the gap in your wire near your two big flags? Figured it was the least likely spot he would come (open terrain) and/or figured he would expect a trap and not go there in force?


I only wanted one opening in the wire and this one would force him into open terrain and 60 to 75% exposure. I also had good cover on my side. I also had it set up as a kill zone with a lot of infantry, infantry guns, and AT guns overwatching. ER fired blind artillery and caused some serious damage. Then I pulled some infantry back because I didn't think he was going to go this way. Imagine my surprise when 2 companies came charging with no warning!

More smoke probably would have helped a lot.

Anyone interested in defending on this one? I would like to attack.

[Viga]

so ER? ready? ;P

[ER_Chaser]

hey, viga, you can still choose what you like, just be different from what this setup will be fine :D ... And ... what is your email again? We should use our emails to communicate onwards.

[Viga]

its alegretebr@bol.com.br

you start the game :)

[Nemesis Lead]

Bah--no one wants to defend against my Russian hordes?

[Viga]

i want NL ;P

[Nemesis Lead]

Hehe--you will have your hands full with ER Chaser! You should focus on him!

[Bertram]

I've succumbed to your attack before. You still owe me a defense at some point!;)

[Nemesis Lead]

I am a little bored with defending but........what did you have in mind John?

[Taktik]

Hi NL,

I'll try a game with these params, if you are still looking.

[Nemesis Lead]

OK--you want to defend then?

[Taktik]

Yup, you wanted to try an attack with these params, yes?

My email is vonwike1@comcast.net

Cool beans, look forward to starting.

[Nemesis Lead]

OK--I will try to send you a file later tonight.

I will say this--this is a very tough one to defend on and I was very lucky to beat ER Chaser.

If you were to look at the scenario and have second thoughts before the game started, I would understand.

[Taktik]

Hi NL,

Thank you for the gentlemanly offer for me to save face. The prospects of a German success under these conditions is remote, indeed.

That said, there is always a glimmer of hope and it will be something different, which is nice after all these years. I will have to put something into effect to increase my chances. We'll see what I can do.

Best,
Craig

[Nemesis Lead]

File sent!

[Bertram]

Jay, if you want a little stress relieving boredom while attacking Taktik:

July 44
dawn
rain
2000pts
infantry only
no mixed troops
med map
hvy trees
village
modest hills

My Allies attack your Axis

[Nemesis Lead]

Hi John,

LOL--this is a setup job.

Why don't you do what I do--propose terms and let the other guy pick the side? If you prefer--I can post the terms and you can pick the side.

[Bertram]

I believe you selected parameters and side in our one and only other battle. You may have allowed me to choose Allies or Axis, I don't recall. Make it my Axis attacks your Allies if that's what you're angling for.

[Mt. Carmel Hill]

Hi NL,

Thank you for the gentlemanly offer for me to save face. The prospects of a German success under these conditions is remote, indeed.

That said, there is always a glimmer of hope and it will be something different, which is nice after all these years. I will have to put something into effect to increase my chances. We'll see what I can do.

Best,
Craig

:salute:
Someone pass the popcorn please... I want to see this one!:clap:

Hey! Down in front you moron!:freak:


Man I love the icons you get to pick from... lol

Good luck gentlemen!!!

Mt. Carmel Hill :salute:

[Nemesis Lead]

I believe you selected parameters and side in our one and only other battle. You may have allowed me to choose Allies or Axis, I don't recall. Make it my Axis attacks your Allies if that's what you're angling for.

OK John....I will look into it on Thursday and get back to you.

[Bertram]

I've played these params once before with Sapper, barely beat him at the end. I beat him badly but it went fast in the last few turns.

You know you want a good challenge not just another auto surrender of my forces!:laugh:

But if you're scared...........I understand...............

[Nemesis Lead]

I've played these params once before with Sapper, barely beat him at the end. I beat him badly but it went fast in the last few turns.

You know you want a good challenge not just another auto surrender of my forces!:laugh:

But if you're scared...........I understand...............

OK, John. I will defend with the evil Soviets. I will set the game up and send it back to you.

[Nemesis Lead]

John--sent you an email and it bounced back. Can you PM me your new email addy?

[ER_Chaser]

oh man, this is my challenge thread ... you guys just hijack it like that?!!! Go away!!

ooops... it is actually your thread ... oko kok k... :D

[Bertram]

Jay, I was thinking CMAK but I'll take the CMBB challenge. There must be something in your favor here..........:clown:

jbnev at cccomm dot net

[Nemesis Lead]

Jay, if you want a little stress relieving boredom while attacking Taktik:

July 44
dawn
rain
2000pts
infantry only
no mixed troops
med map
hvy trees
village
modest hills

My Allies attack your Axis

No mention of CMAK in here and since ER and I had been playing CMBB.....I figured that is what you wanted.

I can set it up for CMAK if you like. Let me know.

[Taktik]

Hi Jay, I sent you #6 on the 19th. You must not have got it. I sent you a couple of emails with and without attachment just now. Let me know if you got it, please. Thanks

Also, Scott, I sent a few files to you the other day. Did they make it? Maybe my email is wonking on me.

Best,
Craig

[Nemesis Lead]

I got the files you sent today and responded today.

FYI, I did not get them on the 19th. They were not even in my spam blocker.

[GAZ NZ]

Hey Nemesis how about a a game?
My open challenge to you lol

[Nemesis Lead]

HI GAZ,

I am full up with 2 games right now, but can play you in a month or so.

[GAZ NZ]

Sweet as.
When u are ready :)

[Nemesis Lead]

Gaz,

I am ready. Do you want to propose terms and I will pick the side or do you want me to propose terms and you pick the side?

[GAZ NZ]

u setup please
expect delays around the 21st 30 july as im moving

[Nemesis Lead]

Do you have CMAK, CMBB or both?

[GAZ NZ]

both my friend

[Nemesis Lead]

I will get you some terms and let you pick the side......hopefully by Saturday at the latest.

[Nemesis Lead]

Hey Gaz,

Sent you some parameters via 2 Private Messages. You pick the side!

[Nemesis Lead]

Gaz? Are you there?

Before you picked your side, I wanted to propose one modification to the battle:

Instead of still winds, let's do strong winds. That way we don't have the damn dust problem that ruins so many games.

The battle will be overcast and windy......like a Shamal.

[GAZ NZ]

hey Nem

I don't like Desert sorry
Id prefer either CMAK italy US vis Germany or BB

[Nemesis Lead]

OK with you if non-US forces are used? Anything else I should know?

You might want to rethink not playing in the desert. With heavy trees, it is not really a desert map...

[Nemesis Lead]

Got your PM......don't have your email addy.