Can't repair bridges

[Heldenkaiser]

I am playing "Road to Moscow I" (with Stefan aka Telumar) and I however often I try I just don't seem to be able to repair bridges. I could do it in 2WIN every time, but here I can't. I tried it numerous times, using infantry, armour, HQs, engineers ... it never works. I know HOW to do it, I just never succeed. What could be the problem? Any help would be much appreciated. :nervous:

[JAMiAM]

The designer may have created his units with insufficient, or unexpectedly low amounts, of engineering equipment in them. IIRC, those scenarios are single-day turns, so it's not unreasonable to expect that the engineering assets might be downgraded to delay an overly rapid repair rate for bridges.

[Telumar]

Hey Dierk, check your e-mail. It's probably like James said.

In 2WiN you had engineer battalions (approx. 27 or 36 Eng Squads) on a 2.5km/hex map. That should give an engineering capability in the '90% region'. In RTM you have an Engineer Battalion ( approx. same number of Eng squads - incooperated into your Inf Div) at 10 km/hex.
(Roughly) Same number of squads with bigger hex scale -> lower engineering capability -> lower chance to repair bridge

A unit's engineering capability is affected by:

-number of Eng squads (or equipment)
-unit proficiency
-unit readiness and supply
-hex scale

EDIT: Turn length doesn't play a role.

[Heldenkaiser]

Thank you, Gentlemen.

After I had failed a few times, I had in fact started looking at the engineering capacity of several of the units I used. The best I could see was 37%. That was a Panzerkorps HQ IIRC. The bridge engineers were way lower.

While I see that what you are saying about the lower chances to succeed in repairing a bridge quickly at this time/map scale makes sense, I wonder what I can do about it. If a unit has a low chance to succeed in repairing a bridge, it will fail again every time I try. Yes, I know that the chances to NOT succeed at least once when trying it many turns in a row are slim ... but in a 13 turn scenario, if I don't have a realistic chance to get this bridge repaired within a few turns I might as well not even start trying. Afterall, I waste a unit's full movement allowance in each failed attempt. :nervous:

Is there nothing I can do to increase the chances? Can several units combine their engineering capacity? Anything like that? In real life, the Germans DID get these bridges repaired eventually, or?

Thank you again for the insights or help you can provide. :shy:

[piero1971]

I dont think 37% is the chance to repair it, it's the % of the repair that it can do in one turn. iirc

[JAMiAM]

EDIT: Turn length doesn't play a role.
Right, which is why a scenario designer might choose to artificially boost or reduce the amount of engineering assets, away from any strict adherence to TO&E, to achieve an overall effectiveness deemed "realistic" given the turn length. Or, as I always say, "Design for effect."

I'm not saying that this is, in fact, what the designer was setting out to achieve, but just a reasonable assumption on my part.

[Telumar]

EDIT: Turn length doesn't play a role.

Right, which is why a scenario designer might choose to artificially boost or reduce the amount of engineering assets, away from any strict adherence to TO&E, to achieve an overall effectiveness deemed "realistic" given the turn length. Or, as I always say, "Design for effect."

I'm not saying that this is, in fact, what the designer was setting out to achieve, but just a reasonable assumption on my part.

I rather am a TO&E purist and it hurts me to do such things, but well..

Maybe that's why desert war scenarios are that popular ? :(

[Telumar]

I dont think 37% is the chance to repair it, it's the % of the repair that it can do in one turn. iirc

Is it really? James?

[JAMiAM]

Maybe that's why desert war scenarios are that popular ? :(
Wadi you mean by that?:laugh:

[JAMiAM]

Is it really? James?

No. It is the base probability that it can do the repair on the item in question. Each attempt, per unit, and per turn, is an independent trial. Note that this is different from the pooled effect of engineering assets to affect entrenchment.

[Heldenkaiser]

Each attempt, per unit, and per turn, is an independent trial.

Meaning, basically, that there is nothing at all one can do to improve the chances of finally succeeding, except keep trying? Thanks. :shy:

[Bob Cross]

Meaning, basically, that there is nothing at all one can do to improve the chances of finally succeeding, except keep trying? Thanks. :shy:

You can throw more engineers at it. Up to nine units per turn can take a stab at it.

[Bob Cross]

Maybe that's why desert war scenarios are that popular ? :(

Until you get to the Delta.

[JAMiAM]

You can throw more engineers at it. Up to nine units per turn can take a stab at it.
That's right, and besides, odds are that you'll end up with enough minor ferry capacity to negate the movement penalty over the hex, even if they don't effect the repair. This doesn't help for tracing supply on later turns, but it keeps the advance rolling along.

[Dicke Bertha]

Always buggered me, not being able to divert *shared* assets from HQ=me to points of interest. Almost as irritating as a Soviet recon regiment being able to blow a dozen bridges in a half week turn. Where's the logic? Bridges or supply, same difference, hope for operational focus of the game development.

[Dicke Bertha]

I should add, I know from personal experience how hard it is to blow up things. So much can go wrong, only very skilled and trained people can make this big boom happen. And it takes a lot of time, and ready equipment if it shall blow nicely.

[B-snafu]

currently in a pbem of rtm II as soviets--started blowing bridges on turn one w/every unit I could do so with as I retreated all over the map--at turn 20 & still holding strong to smolensk, kirkov(sp) line--believe my opponnent has really been hampered by the blown bridges & doesn't have enough supply to to really take out my realitivly weak defenders. I'll have to ask him how the repairing is going for him in the second installment of rtm.

[jlbetin]

I should add, I know from personal experience how hard it is to blow up things. So much can go wrong, only very skilled and trained people can make this big boom happen. And it takes a lot of time, and ready equipment if it shall blow nicely.

I'm not sure that most of road bridges in Russia were stone made.

If they were wooden made it was far more easier to blown up

My 00,02 €

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[B-snafu]

At turn 22 of RTM#2. Defensive line at Smolensk now. I had blown about every bridge on the map as I retreated from the north to the south of the map. About 8 turns left & my opponent let me know that he has only been able to repair one bridge if that. It seems to me though IMHO that the blown/repair bridge aspect in rtm is what keeps the germans from just running amok over the soviets giving the russian player a fighting chance.


I was axis in rtm 1 of our series contest--I can't be 100% percent sure, but I believe I was able to repair a few of the blown bridges with the dedicated engineer units.

[Heldenkaiser]

I *did* manage to repair a couple of bridges meanwhile. That's two with, what, 30-40 tries all over the map? But yes, it can be done.

[B-snafu]

Good luck on the drive--I never did get minsk & settled for a draw by gobbiling up barely uncontested southern objective hexes in my game. Near the end my guys were too "red" and didn't have the "umph" for that last push.

[Heldenkaiser]

Thanks! I think mine will end as a draw as well. We did take Minsk last turn, but there never developed a bit pocket like it did historically--just a small one in the West, round Bialystok. I just pushed the Russians out. It's a draw now, but with 2 turns left I think that's what it will be in the end. Unless of course Stefan has some ace up his sleeve ... I sure haven't!