View Full Version : Battlefront Admits CMSF Released Before It Was Ready
The release state is not a mystery, but perhaps the admission about it is a bit of a refreshing surprise. From the Battlefront forum:
"ham_v2.0,
quote:
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Why was it put out now, what happened to "it's done when it's done" ?
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I've answered this before, directly, but it is not surprising that you didn't see it. There are a lot of posts to go through
We tried our first ever simultaneous release with retail. We signed the deal almost a year before we actually released. Despite working 7 days a week, 12-18 hours a day over the last year (yup... fun way to live) we hit our first release deadline and the game wasn't ready. We managed to delay it a month and it still wasn't ready. At this point we delayed it another month, but that was all our contract allowed. So the game was pressed onto CDs an we kept working as if it hadn't been. Another month went by and we released v1.01 to conincide with the release of Paradox's retail version (which was prematurely, and in some cases illegally, sold to customers). And even v1.01 wasn't as strong as we wanted it to be, so we didn't slacken up the pace and two weeks later released v1.02. Now we are working on v1.03 without letting up and taking a break.
Do we blame Paradox for the release being the way it was? Not at all. We take full responsibility. We wanted too many things in the game and didn't allow enough time for it. Contrary to some of the accusations floating around here, we once again put too much into CM. We should have scaled the design WAY back and released after 2 years of 7 day a week development instead of 3 years. Of course, I can only imagine the reaction that would have received
Steve"
Here's the link:
http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=002498;p=6
Thanks for the link Bill.
I think the story here is: that honesty would have been the best policy.
Just come out & tell your potential customers that:
1. We want so much "cool stuff" in this game that it will take longer than we ever anticipated.
2. We are honestly working our butts off 18 hrs a day trying to get this completed for you.
3. Sorry but we've legally run out of development time & have to send it out the door as is.
4. We will be hurrying out multipile patches to correct any bugs ASAP, please bear with us.
Why do they think that wargame customers are unable to understand simple facts & logic?
FYI- I don't care for the era or the new system- I'll stick with the wego system for this squad/company level of play thank you. :)
There's no mystery here. The moment I saw the name Paradox everything was crystal clear.
Yes, I think Paradox sells crap.
Yes, I think Paradox is the wrong company to do business with.
Yes, I think having anything to do with a release through Paradox is a pox on your product.
I thought the demo looked good, still do, but clearly the connection with Paradox is the problem.
Is this over the top (my opinion?) I won't be surprised if you think so. Enjoy your rushed game.
I'm still waiting on some games, I'd rather never see the game at all, as opposed to being sold a game they KNEW was not ready.
When you combine ToW and now this, frankly you can't milk the fame of being the makers of Combat Mission for ever guys.
And SC2 was hardly stellar.
Looks like Battlefront is losing their touch.
Nemesis Lead
21 Aug 07, 12:41
Thanks for the link Bill.
I think the story here is: that honesty would have been the best policy.
Just come out & tell your potential customers that:
1. We want so much "cool stuff" in this game that it will take longer than we ever anticipated.
2. We are honestly working our butts off 18 hrs a day trying to get this completed for you.
3. Sorry but we've legally run out of development time & have to send it out the door as is.
4. We will be hurrying out multipile patches to correct any bugs ASAP, please bear with us.
Why do they think that wargame customers are unable to understand simple facts & logic?
FYI- I don't care for the era or the new system- I'll stick with the wego system for this squad/company level of play thank you. :)
I am glad to see them make this admission. They seemed to be in denial for a long time.
With patches AND listening to their customers, this could become a classic game. I think they will do the patches. I am still not 100% sure that they are listening to their customers asking for the return of some CMX1 functionality.
ER_Chaser
21 Aug 07, 12:46
Yes, I think having anything to do with a release through Paradox is a pox on your product.
.
Small or Chicken? :)
hehe, seriously, after reading BF's statement, I actually turned my frustration into understanding. I appreciate their effort together with this honesty. It is perfectly ok if they did not have enough time to tackle the big task. I have all the patience and time in the world to wait longer for them to be ready.
Commercially, I agree, it would be a terrible thing to release something that is not ready yet and then admit it! ---- the firm is going to lose a lot of its credibility. But between the fans, for the fans, I think giving out the truth will be much better than pretending and defending. For example, I now feel a lot better about CMSF and BF. And recalling how disappointed I was when I tried the demo, this is a huge step forward.
So I just want to say, Thank you guys, please do not give up ---- we are all still here, you have all the support from the fans!
Poor Old Spike
21 Aug 07, 22:16
Incidentally I recently sent this mail to Steve at BF but he's yet to reply -
"Hi,
Best wishes for Shock Force which I see is taking a mauling in the CM community for being prematurely released before being adequately de-bugged.
Why didn't you come to me to help beta-test it?
I'm 59 years old, a lifelong wargamer, I was a wargame developer/playtester with Cases Computer Simulations, I've topped 3 separate CM ladders and contributed 400+ tactical advice posts and screenshots to the Blitz Tac forum, and as I'm currently off work I could have put in 16 hours a day helping you get Shock Force into shape..
Regards,
Poor Old Spike"
Incidentally I recently sent this mail to Steve at BF but he's yet to reply -
"Hi,
Best wishes for Shock Force which I see is taking a mauling in the CM community for being prematurely released before being adequately de-bugged.
Why didn't you come to me to help beta-test it?
I'm 59 years old, a lifelong wargamer, I was a wargame developer/playtester with Cases Computer Simulations, I've topped 3 separate CM ladders and contributed 400+ tactical advice posts and screenshots to the Blitz Tac forum, and as I'm currently off work I could have put in 16 hours a day helping you get Shock Force into shape..
Regards,
Poor Old Spike"
So did I!!My E-Mail (http://www.gamesquad.com/forums/showpost.php?p=898069&postcount=5)
On a side note:(This is just a little frustration being released at everything)
As for CMSF's release too early. My rule of thumb is to give it at least 6 months before getting any new game as it usually has some kinks to work out, and I know you're all big fans of the CM series and so are those posters on the main forum. My main surprise was that everybody(I'm trying not to offend or be rude here, it's just my opinion honestly) or at least almost everybody, went and bought the game right away then started complaining. I know they didn't handle it very well, buut!, they are rolling the patches out and they now their mistake, and no gaming company has ever been perfect, and this sadly happens to be a rather largish blot on their record. I personally think that this is a great experience for these guys, who have had a fairly good track record and then to have this "debacle," I'd say that they could only improve from here on out.
Michael Dorosh
22 Aug 07, 01:09
Incidentally I recently sent this mail to Steve at BF but he's yet to reply -
"Hi,
Best wishes for Shock Force which I see is taking a mauling in the CM community for being prematurely released before being adequately de-bugged.
Why didn't you come to me to help beta-test it?
I'm 59 years old, a lifelong wargamer, I was a wargame developer/playtester with Cases Computer Simulations, I've topped 3 separate CM ladders and contributed 400+ tactical advice posts and screenshots to the Blitz Tac forum, and as I'm currently off work I could have put in 16 hours a day helping you get Shock Force into shape..
Regards,
Poor Old Spike"
As someone who is on the beta test team, I can safely say we had a pretty good bit of talent already assembled. And to be honest - if looking for desirable attributes, "ladder player" is really, really irrelevant to testing out a brand new engine. Beta testing is more about finding bugs - playing an old game competitively really has little to do with testing out a new one.
On the other hand, I am sure he appreciated the email but he has indeed been working long, long hours so I wouldn't take it personally. Contact Madmatt or Moon instead and you might have better luck. Or even rune; he is the scenario design lead. I know your name from TPG and I think you design as well?
They are looking for new testers for the next module also, so you never know, but I think they are tending to look for subject matter experts first, emphasis on modern militaries. Try them anyway.
Good luck.
British Tommy
22 Aug 07, 20:16
Thanks for the link Bill.
I think the story here is: that honesty would have been the best policy.
Just come out & tell your potential customers that:
1. We want so much "cool stuff" in this game that it will take longer than we ever anticipated.
2. We are honestly working our butts off 18 hrs a day trying to get this completed for you.
3. Sorry but we've legally run out of development time & have to send it out the door as is.
4. We will be hurrying out multipile patches to correct any bugs ASAP, please bear with us.
Why do they think that wargame customers are unable to understand simple facts & logic?
FYI- I don't care for the era or the new system- I'll stick with the wego system for this squad/company level of play thank you. :)
You hit the nail on the head there Palantir! (ever thought of applying for a PR job with BF?:devious: ).
ER chaser is also right with his comments. Now the players know the truth, the heat should be off BF and the team. I say good luck to them and hope SF becomes a huge success so they can move on and start work on the next WW2 game :)
And I'm quite content to wait until that game is ready for release :smoke:
Poor Old Spike
22 Aug 07, 20:40
My rule of thumb is to give it at least 6 months before getting any new game...
Sure CMSF needs more patches, but you can still have fun with it in the meantime right now and get to know the basics.. ;)
For example, in the game I've already test-driven all 7 Stryker variants,the 3 Bradley variants,the 4 Abrams variants,the 2 Humvee variants, and I've fired all the missiles in the game and played with grenade launchers and called in arty and airstrikes etc.
So me and other people who are already into the game are getting a huge head start on the rest of you, ha ha ha.. :)
I was talking of patches, and then I'd learn the hard way by playing guys like you:devious:
Sure CMSF needs more patches, but you can still have fun with it in the meantime right now and get to know the basics.. ;)
For example, in the game I've already test-driven all 7 Stryker variants,the 3 Bradley variants,the 4 Abrams variants,the 2 Humvee variants, and I've fired all the missiles in the game and played with grenade launchers and called in arty and airstrikes etc.
So me and other people who are already into the game are getting a huge head start on the rest of you, ha ha ha.. :)
Yes OK. Your an SF God. fancy a PBEM then?
As someone who is on the beta test team, I can safely say we had a pretty good bit of talent already assembled. And to be honest - if looking for desirable attributes, "ladder player" is really, really irrelevant to testing out a brand new engine. Beta testing is more about finding bugs - playing an old game competitively really has little to do with testing out a new one.
On the other hand, I am sure he appreciated the email but he has indeed been working long, long hours so I wouldn't take it personally. Contact Madmatt or Moon instead and you might have better luck. Or even rune; he is the scenario design lead. I know your name from TPG and I think you design as well?
They are looking for new testers for the next module also, so you never know, but I think they are tending to look for subject matter experts first, emphasis on modern militaries. Try them anyway.
Good luck.
As someone who admits to being on the beta test team I admire your honesty. Didnt you realise just how flawed the whole thing was? Or does your ten million post count at BF indicate that you have a different agenda other than helping to produce a quality wargame.
Seems strange to me that all those quality playtesters failed to spot how crap the released game was. Even after patch 3 the interface sucks.
Dont get me wrong, I actually enjoy the game for what it is, or should be, but some of the flaws degrade the experience, the crappy interface being just one of them. A modern game should be designed to play by Mouse alone without having to navigate 200 hotkeys....
John Osborne
31 Aug 07, 15:47
200 hotkeys? Where do you see 200 hotkeys in CM:SF?
200 hotkeys? Where do you see 200 hotkeys in CM:SF?
Sometimes I think sarcasim is dead.......
John Osborne
31 Aug 07, 19:57
Sometimes I think sarcasim is dead.......
Oh, you mean you were being sarcastic then, now I see....
Oh, you mean you were being sarcastic then, now I see....
:p :laugh:
John Osborne
01 Sep 07, 06:35
Well at least were good sports about it, :D
Hey POS (Poor Old Spike) you got your wish to be a beta tester. You just didn't know it would be as a PAYING beta tester. Hahaha.
John Osborne
01 Sep 07, 15:44
My apology Tanker, I replied to your email.
JohnO
No problem John. I should have made my post more clear.
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