Jutland and Shell Types

[bill44]

Think I'll engage in some kite flying here: : :devious:

I wonder if we will have the ability to choose shell tpes (HE,AP) in Jutland, that would be a really good feature :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[vertical]

I doubt it. I think Norm and Jim had their reasons for doing this, and I can't see those reasons changing with Jutland.

vertical

[HMSWarspite]

Think I'll engage in some kite flying here: : :devious:

I wonder if we will have the ability to choose shell tpes (HE,AP) in Jutland, that would be a really good feature :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Not really a fleet admiral decision! There are a lot of things I need to see first!

Also why do you want to choose? It is pretty much a fixed choice.... armoured target= AP, light/unarmoured = HE. Little point in doing much else?

[bill44]

Not really a fleet admiral decision! There are a lot of things I need to see first!

Also why do you want to choose? It is pretty much a fixed choice.... armoured target= AP, light/unarmoured = HE. Little point in doing much else?

Not entirely, the HE used by the IJN at Tshushima, had a devestating effect on the BB's, starting large fires, wrecking the upperworks, killing and maiming the gunners in exposed positions. Remember that once a fire starts then it has to put out, this requires a DC party, the more damage, the bigger the fire the more men required to fight/repair it, thus drawing men from the guns to save the ship, this will have a drastic effect on the ships fighting ability.

[Rhetor]

Not entirely, the HE used by the IJN at Tshushima, had a devestating effect on the BB's, starting large fires, wrecking the upperworks, killing and maiming the gunners in exposed positions. Remember that once a fire starts then it has to put out, this requires a DC party, the more damage, the bigger the fire the more men required to fight/repair it, thus drawing men from the guns to save the ship, this will have a drastic effect on the ships fighting ability.

Of course. But would the game be still playable when all such details were implemented?

[Bullethead]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned starshells.

I hasten to add that I'm not implying that starshells will or will not be in the game, but anybody who has read Campbell's book can come up with some pretty good assumptions on the HE/AP thing.

[bill44]

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned starshells.

I hasten to add that I'm not implying that starshells will or will not be in the game, but anybody who has read Campbell's book can come up with some pretty good assumptions on the HE/AP thing.

1. Didn't know star shells were used in WWI.
2. Who is Campbell ?and what is his book about ?

[Bullethead]

1. Didn't know star shells were used in WWI.
2. Who is Campbell ?and what is his book about ?

Yeah, the Germans had starshells at the time of Jutland but the Brits didn't. The Brits got some later but I'm not exactly sure when.

As for Campbell, he's the one and only NJM Campbell. I believe he also goes by John sometimes. Anyway, this guy has written extensively on naval things. He's a gearhead, being much more interested in the technical stuff and how it functioned than in the "historical" aspects such as the course of battles, the decisions of commanders, etc. Much of his work is on weapons and their effects.

The book I was refering to above is his Jutland: An Analysis of the Fighting. If you want to know where the ships went and why, it's not a good source--he just sketches events. But, this only to provide the context for what the book is really about: battle damage :). This book is basically a shell-by-shell account of who hit who at what range, with what, and where, and what the shell did. This detailed treatment is reserved for capital ships, but the damage done by and to smaller ships is at least summarized. As a result, this book is widely regarded as the bible on WW1 weapons effects. The worst part about it is that you can tell that the guy knows a LOT more than he put in the book, and you just want to hunt him down and make him spill the rest ;). Owning this book is a must for any naval grog--the last "Summary" chapter is worth the price by itself. And of course, all his other works are also excellent, so a search for him on Amazon or whatever and buy everything you can find :).

Anyway, a lot of stuff in this Jutland book bears on the AP vs. HE issue. You can learn things like this:


Brit 1914-1916 AP and Brit HE had pretty much the same effect, because the Brit AP at that time sucked.
German AP was better than Brit AP at penetrating, but the German capital ships didn't have HE anyway, just AP and SAP.
The German SAP seems to have worked about as well as their AP
No gun on either side of 6" or less had AP at all, just HE (noze-, base-, or internally fuzed) or starshell (if German)


So, draw your own conclusions.