View Full Version : Tiberius vs. Conao
Well I'm finally under way! We went for two TOs each + deployment. I chose northern deployment which, my experience checking out other's games, tells me wouod be a nmistake against a good player. I think the units are needed down south to prevent the Germans from getting a real jump there. Conao did pretty good for his first time PBEM. he really studied up in their forum and took his time to send a pretty good move. Really dusted up Don front with artillery.
I didn't take release Don front , I'm waiting for little Saturn.
My question revolves around my desire to get some of the units of Don front that are between the Don and Volga down to the south of the Volga to help in that area to either prevent the link up or provide some strength down there in the event of a link up. In order to cross the Volga some of the units must leave the * boundary but can be back inside on the same move.
My take on this is that it is legal under the rule:
"Units of DON Front are not allowed to participate in battles outside the Stalingrad pocket. The boundary is marked with a "*". The exception is described below and under the section Theatre Options."
As a matter of fact this rule gives me the impression that Don front units can actually leave the * area all they want as long as they don't make any attacks. Is this the correct interpretation?
Panzerpelle
26 Apr 04, 02:10
Well I'm finally under way! We went for two TOs each + deployment. I chose northern deployment which, my experience checking out other's games, tells me wouod be a nmistake against a good player. I think the units are needed down south to prevent the Germans from getting a real jump there. Conao did pretty good for his first time PBEM. he really studied up in their forum and took his time to send a pretty good move. Really dusted up Don front with artillery.
I didn't take release Don front , I'm waiting for little Saturn.
My question revolves around my desire to get some of the units of Don front that are between the Don and Volga down to the south of the Volga to help in that area to either prevent the link up or provide some strength down there in the event of a link up. In order to cross the Volga some of the units must leave the * boundary but can be back inside on the same move.
My take on this is that it is legal under the rule:
"Units of DON Front are not allowed to participate in battles outside the Stalingrad pocket. The boundary is marked with a "*". The exception is described below and under the section Theatre Options."
As a matter of fact this rule gives me the impression that Don front units can actually leave the * area all they want as long as they don't make any attacks. Is this the correct interpretation?
Yes your are correct...moving around with the intent tp redeploy te DON Front armies is OK.
Just got turn 4 in from my opponent. We're starting to pick it up a little. Well should I go for little Saturn this turn? (active for turn 5) are there plenty of folks out there who really got a bang out of their turn 5 shock? If the turn 5 shock works well I think I can really put a dent in him. Second guards army looks ready to break throught the Italians from across the river north of Veshenskaya. I plan to use them to roll the German line south and get 3rd guards army moving. All my northern troops are freed up and I've softened up and gotten nice bridgheads against the Italians up there. He did put 19th panzer / Fretter-Pico up there. ( I know from a Manstein's last victory campaign how formidable an opponent he can be ), but I think I can use my right flank to pin him against the north edge of the board and keep him out of action. 5th tank army is also hammering away at his line defended by security guys and MPs.
More on the overall situation later, especially if I can figure out how to shrink my JPGs down to about half size. Will saving as Gif do it? Is it likely that I have an app loaded that can do it? Anyway for now, should I use shock now or wait a turn?
Panzerpelle
16 May 04, 04:59
Just got turn 4 in from my opponent. We're starting to pick it up a little. Well should I go for little Saturn this turn? (active for turn 5) are there plenty of folks out there who really got a bang out of their turn 5 shock? If the turn 5 shock works well I think I can really put a dent in him. Second guards army looks ready to break throught the Italians from across the river north of Veshenskaya. I plan to use them to roll the German line south and get 3rd guards army moving. All my northern troops are freed up and I've softened up and gotten nice bridgheads against the Italians up there. He did put 19th panzer / Fretter-Pico up there. ( I know from a Manstein's last victory campaign how formidable an opponent he can be ), but I think I can use my right flank to pin him against the north edge of the board and keep him out of action. 5th tank army is also hammering away at his line defended by security guys and MPs.
More on the overall situation later, especially if I can figure out how to shrink my JPGs down to about half size. Will saving as Gif do it? Is it likely that I have an app loaded that can do it? Anyway for now, should I use shock now or wait a turn?
You can very easily resize them in Microsoft Photo Editor..
Thanks Pelle, that did the trick. OK teammates I seem to recall hearing that it's best to wait for turn 5 to take Saturn TO for best results. What's the verdict: take now or wait one turn?
I have another 'situation'. In the southern part of the south map you'll see I have moved some tank units of Don front out of the *** area into defensive postions along the wadi near Kargata.
I had initially only moved them into reserve positions within the *** area near Tinguta, but as part of preparing to ask whether it would be OK to move them into the new positions, I ended up actually moving them there. They are planned to be defense only, no attacking as per rule quoted in previous post.
This is all I have done this turn apart from a few dig in/ignore losses and an AV into hex (62,28).
Here is the picture that shows the positions questioned in the post above.
Panzerpelle
16 May 04, 15:37
Here is the picture that shows the positions questioned in the post above.
You should move the DON front units inside the boundary and dig them in. as it is now its hard to believe they are redeploying. Once the Axis enters the boundary you are free to extend your defences outside the DON front baounadry...
You should move the DON front units inside the boundary and dig them in. as it is now its hard to believe they are redeploying. Once the Axis enters the boundary you are free to extend your defences outside the DON front baounadry...
OK. My bad. I was trying to 'rules lawyer' that 'participate in battles' meant that it was OK to deploy or dig in etc. just not attack. I meant to show the move as mereley an illustration, without actually redeploying but they ended up redeployed. I will unredeploy them. I do think the rule should read something like: "units of Don front are not allowed to end their turn outside the boundary, except to redeploy to another area within the boundary"
Panzerpelle
16 May 04, 16:33
OK. My bad. I was trying to 'rules lawyer' that 'participate in battles' meant that it was OK to deploy or dig in etc. just not attack. I meant to show the move as mereley an illustration, without actually redeploying but they ended up redeployed. I will unredeploy them. I do think the rule should read something like: "units of Don front are not allowed to end their turn outside the boundary, except to redeploy to another area within the boundary"
Thanks for the rule suggestion..I will copy it into the briefing.
laszlo.nemedi
16 May 04, 16:55
As for the Little Saturn: you can start when your units ready to attack, so it seems to me you can start now... Have a good fight!
Well, I'm becoming concerned about Conao. I sent him my turn 4 on 5/19 (we got a late start because he was a sub and it took him a while to get integrated with his team) He wasn't able to get the move done before he went on a two week trip, but now it's been almost two weeks since he signified he would be back from the trip and no word. I sent him a tickler e-mail about a week ago, and another, poking email which I CCed to Brent and Mantis yesterday. And no word from him at all.
Brent perhaps you could get in touch with his CO and ask him to encourage a response? Or better yet an actual move!
Hey Jean-LUc, too bad we're on the same team. We could finsih up against each other. I know I'm highly interested in playing this scenario past turn 4! Turn 6 for you?
Brent perhaps you could get in touch with his CO and ask him to encourage a response? Or better yet an actual move!
Perhaps he could get an ultimatum?
CyberRanger
25 Jun 04, 15:17
Perhaps he could get an ultimatum?
I'll see what I can find out. This disappearing out business is getting FUBAR!
stand down, stand down all stations!
Got the move. Marconi's trip got extended and when he got back he did the move in one day.
CyberRanger
25 Jun 04, 23:04
stand down, stand down all stations!
Got the move. Marconi's trip got extended and when he got back he did the move in one day.
Excellent!
Hey, Tiberius
How about posting an EOT so we can see how your game is progressing? Remember, we NEED a win, so show no mercy!
:rifle:
Hey, Tiberius
How about posting an EOT so we can see how your game is progressing? Remember, we NEED a win, so show no mercy!
:rifle:
OK. Here you go. I'm feeling pretty good about the situation. Unfortunately he pulled out his good units from the main little Saturn area but I still managed to pocket and kill a fair amount in that area. Slow progress against the Kessel. I've swung a bunch of units around from the north side of it to the south side. All my reinforcements are going where they can get to the fight quickest.
Tiberius, all in all, it looks like everything is going quite well for you! You've got momentum in the north and central which will be aided by the shock effect of Little Saturn. And Conao doesn't seem to be pushing really hard to link up with the Kessel which gives you time to take Gumrak (supply), and Stalingrad.
I do have some tactical tips, most of which you are probably well aware of but what the heck!:
Starting at the top of the map (NW) and working down, I would say your big objective over there is to drive hard and fast for hex (0,8) which is the entry hex for a PzD arriving around turn 12 or so (need to look back at my EOT's for that one...). Make sure to occupy that hex and two hexes on each side at a minimum to keep the division from coming onto the map. Best way to do that is to dispatch at least two brigades of tanks and break them down into 3's.
I would also break down a lot of other armor/recon units to outflank and envelope the pockets you will be creating. If you have surrounded a unit and it is dug in, you might want to wait until your last combat round to kill it, as these small guys will often burn up your turn with the dreaded "Soviets continue attack", blurbs.
Only infantry can occupy badlands so keep that in mind for enveloping.
All of the Axis units you are fighting in the north and central are pretty fragile, even the big Rumanian KG's (exception everywhere are the mech and panzer units). You can often get good results even with low odds attacks. Also keep a few infantry divisions around to pave the way with overruns (AV's). Sometimes they can smash there way into his lines for several hexes before running out of movement.
Drive hard on Morozovsk. It sits on a crucial rail line and taking it may crack his line, and from there you have a lot of potential directions to go, all bad for him.
Millerovo and of course, Vorosh will be your other major objectives.
The weakest part of your line right now is Ostrov, but a major attack by him seems unlikely right now. However it would not be a good area for him to get into...
In the Kessel, use plenty of armor ants with artillery backup to wear down his defenses, and go for Gumrak ASAP as it has his only supply point. Stalingrad can also be hit with the armor ant/artillery combo as well, to wear down those units and allow you to take that crucial victory location.
In the Kessel, don't attack with infantry divisions, they take enormous casualties and tend to evap, even when in good supply. I lost a lot of infantry divisions that way, and lost them on defense as well. I finally broke them down into regiments, dug them in, and stacked them with other units, especially armor to provide better defense especially if the infantry evaps. Having armor in all your front line hexes makes attacking everyone of his hexes easy.
Use the 4 movement point heavy artillery while you have shock effect to dig him out, without burning up your turn. It's very hard to create momentum in the Kessel, so this is your chance to gain some ground and shake him up.
Whatever you do don't use those 1 MP artillery units on the east side of the Kessel. Pierre probably forgot to assign them enough transport, but they are of course, turn-killers. I just leave them dug in.
Move your flak units onto rail lines and get them into the Kessel, they make excellent defensive units. Also leave the flak unit at (94, 34), you'll find that hex becomes very busy with reconstituted units, so protect the hex at all costs in case Conao manages to break through.
To minimize a potential breakthrough, the wadi that runs south of the Kessel is absolutely great for defense. Fortified units there will be very hard for him to dislodge.
Lastly, use 28th Army to pressure the Rumanians but remember it is fundamentally a fragile formation. From what I've seen, ZERO reinforcements or replacements will come to the aid of the 28th, and it has only the one supply hex.
Again, I'm sure you've already thought of most of this, but I'm just throwing it your way as a reminder, based on what I've encountered with Bruce. We are playing historical, so obviously your TO's will probably change certain aspects of this scenario.
Good luck and go get 'em! :devil:
JoeBob
Beautiful. I can't wait to start following your advice. Just need the next turn now. 11 days and counting.
I sent my turn 5 on June 27. I feel like my opponent takes unreasonably long for a tournament. :angry: :o :cry:
I think it took him "only" a week one time. I think average might be about 3 weeks!
:( :mad: :eek: :confused:
CyberRanger
16 Aug 04, 16:34
I sent my turn 5 on June 27. I feel like my opponent takes unreasonably long for a tournament. :angry: :o :cry:
I think it took him "only" a week one time. I think average might be about 3 weeks!
:( :mad: :eek: :confused:
Is this game dead? SITREP please!!!!
Is this game dead? SITREP please!!!!
I got the following message from my opponent after sending him my most recent move. I do believe I have him on the ropes. I'm slowly grinding Stalingrad, but elsewhere, after breaking the initial line of Italians he set up a new line further back which I was able to infiltrate and surround. I'll attach my last save.
Hi Bill,
Unfortunately, due to my removal to Brazil next week, I have been very busy
and, starting next week, I'll be at least 4 to 6 weeks without my computer.
So, I'll have to put all my PBEM games on hold for this period.
Our game has been too slow pace already (mostly my fault) and I don't think
that the tournament organizers (or you) can tolerate some more delays like
this. Anyway, my tactical situation is not good and I am probably going to a
total defeat. Therefore, I think that it would be better if I surrender now
and you get full credits in the tournament and in the ladder. If you agree,
could you send a mail to the tournament organizers? I can send a mail myself
too, to confirm it (let me know if it is necessary).
Otherwise, I would be glad to take it to the bitter end, when I get my
computer back in Brazil. Maybe just for fun, but not for the tournament...
If you want to continue it later, let me know and I'll send you my turn when
I am ready to get it going again.
Regards,
Marconi
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Earley
Sent: domingo, 7 de novembro de 2004 19:48
To: Marconi Menezes
Subject: Re: Wintergewitter 42 Axis09
Marconi,
Looks like you'll have to prepare for Manstein's backhand blow. Not sure if
that's in the scope of the scenario or not.
It may go up to right before Manstein got his glory. I think the turn before
last you forgot to withdraw your units a few hexes, enabling me to get
around them. If you don't have a solid line you have to keep backing up or
get infiltrated.
good luck, Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marconi Menezes"
To: "'Bill Earley'"
Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 4:26 AM
Subject: Wintergewitter 42 Axis09
Hi Bill,
Well, my line is broken already... let's see how much time I have. :-(
Good luck,
Marconi
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Earley
Sent: terça-feira, 5 de outubro de 2004 00:07
To: Marconi Menezes
Subject: Re: Wintergewitter 42 Axis08
Hi Marconi,
I think you were smart to switch over to the defensive. I have played
against several people who's over-aggresiveness was their undoing.
It's also interesting the fairly "historical" feel of the pocket not being
relieved. It's quit frustrating for me because the whole Don army can't go
anywhere but to assault Stalingrad, which is very difficult to do. Yikes! I
see those divisions in your rear areas - like the Panzer division at
Kotelnikovo. Reserves like that can make for a pretty good defense.
I hope your front line guys in the north are starting to feel nervous as
waves of Russians ooze around them.
good luck!, Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Marconi Menezes"
To: "Tiberius"
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:09 AM
Subject: Wintergewitter 42 Axis08
> Hi Bill,
>
> I feel that it is too early to start to play only defense... It will be
> impossible to resist until turn 40, but I have absolutely no punch to try
> anything else. Since my drive in south was unsuccessful, all I can do now
> is
> try to "sell it as expensive as I can"! :-(
>
> Good luck,
>
> Marconi
>
oops forgot the save file. Here it is. Can we claim this as a victory?
Panzerpelle
03 Dec 04, 02:59
oops forgot the save file. Here it is. Can we claim this as a victory?
Maybe you should consider to delete the emails in the posts. Once this thread is public you will get spammed....
Intersting to read the comments on the feel of the scenario.
CyberRanger
03 Dec 04, 08:28
I got the following message from my opponent after sending him my most recent move. I do believe I have him on the ropes. I'm slowly grinding Stalingrad, but elsewhere, after breaking the initial line of Italians he set up a new line further back which I was able to infiltrate and surround. I'll attach my last save.
Based on my experience looking at a lot of these game files, I'd say you will without doubt have a Russian OV in this game. You progress in the NW and SE is incredible for only T9.
I have no problem with us counting this as a Russian OV for the tourney but I'll need to have Mantis make the decision. He is the tourney organizer.
Thanks for the reminder (addresses). It's done. Yes interesting the banter. There's more in some other (email) threads I'll maybe get to post later as part of an AAR after discussing it with Conao. I only posted his message because I wanted to get official team/tourney policy before replying to his surrender offer. If it wasn't a team tourney I wouldn't normally accept it but since it is a team thing I wanted to jump on it and offer to continue with him outside the tourney format.
Maybe you should consider to delete the emails in the posts. Once this thread is public you will get spammed....
Definately.
Bill if you already have, ignore my ramblings, but I strongly suggest you edit that part of the message out. :D
Thanks for the reminder (addresses). It's done.
:laugh:
Ooops. :)
Yes interesting the banter. There's more in some other (email) threads I'll maybe get to post later as part of an AAR after discussing it with Conao. I only posted his message because I wanted to get official team/tourney policy before replying to his surrender offer. If it wasn't a team tourney I wouldn't normally accept it but since it is a team thing I wanted to jump on it and offer to continue with him outside the tourney format.
Bill, report a turn 9 OV. Brent, add it into the stats, but do denote that it was a DQ, if you please.
Sorry that your game had to end that way, Bill!
:laugh:
Ooops. :)
Bill, report a turn 9 OV. Brent, add it into the stats, but do denote that it was a DQ, if you please.
Sorry that your game had to end that way, Bill!
Just now checked this board and noticed that the latest 'Mantis' reply is actually one I hadn't read yet. Will do in terms of reporting the game and chalk up one more victory for the RUSSIANS!
WestPointer,
Is this game reported as a Russian OV for the tournament results?
I thought that was the upshot of these last few discussions. I'm not going to report an O.V. for me to WARS unless it's necessary to log the victory for the team as Conao and I plan to continue for our own satisfaction.
CyberRanger
12 Jan 05, 11:19
WestPointer,
Is this game reported as a Russian OV for the tournament results?
I thought that was the upshot of these last few discussions. I'm not going to report an O.V. for me to WARS unless it's necessary to log the victory for the team as Conao and I plan to continue for our own satisfaction.
Hmmm .... I'd like the game reported to WARS to complete the game listing on the tournament page. How about this - report the game now for 9 turns as a Soviet OV. When you two are ready to report the final end, subtract 9 turns from the final number of turns played when you report it again. That way the number of points you and Conao receive will be correct.
Okay?
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