View Full Version : Jutland - campaign or just battle scenarios ?
I wonder, what type of gameplay will Jutland have.
On one side, the complete battle simulation of one battle will be good enough for me to buy it, especially if hit-location and ballystics systems of DG engine will be improved.
On other side, some sort of camaign will be great indeed, even if it will cover only North Sea, and nothing more.
Me personally hoping about Baltic Sea, and Russian pre-dreadnoughts, as well as our dreadnoughts and cruisers, but I understand that this is almost impossible to cover all naval battles and operations in one title at once.
What we expect of Jutland, guys ?
Well, I hope this campaign will make it possible not only the things we can do in DG: RJW, but also to build ships (I have a hope that in some conditions we would make it so to build Mackensen class BCs...I really-really want these ones :halo: )
And what are your thoughts and expectations, guys ?
asheshouse
28 May 07, 16:39
The press release indicates that there will be a campaign game.
For the Grand Fleet hopefully this will mean North Sea sweeps to maintain the blockade. Raids on Heligoland Bight. Defence of the fishing fleet on Dogger Bank. Defence of the cargo shipping from Scandanavia. Safeguarding the Channel shipping providing men and supplies to the western front. Guarding the coastal shipping and east coast seaports. Seaplane raids on the zepplin sheds.
For the High Seas Fleet, attacks or threats against all of those, while trying to isolate a squadron of the Grand Fleet to win a tactical victory.
In game terms maintaining the fog of war is all important. This means not only limited knowledge about the enemy movements but also a steady reduction in knowledge about the location of friendly forces due to inaccuracy in navigation based on time from port.
I hope the game will bring a powerful campaign element and also set piece encounters. I also like the ability to play back a game with fog of war removed so that you can see what actually happened.
Hinchinbrooke
28 May 07, 19:56
I assume there will be a full blown North Sea campaign, along with specific scenarios (including Jutland)................. and hopefully some sort of mission/scenario editor for "what if" situations.
I would like to see the option to start the campaign in any year and end in any year. The player could choose to go hardcore 1914-1918 or just 1916 or 1915-1917, etc. Ideally the campaign map should go from Ireland in the west to Kiel in the east, the Shetland Islands in the north to the French, Dutch and Belgian coasts and English Channel in the south. Both sides should have to deal with commerce raiding and protection. The Germans need to try and break the British blockade, the British need to enforce it without undue risk to their fleet. Using U-boats in the campaign would be cool.
Ideas for future expansions: the Mediterranian & Adriatic seas, Baltic sea, Von Spee's adventures: Coronel & Falklands, cruise of the Emden.
Actually, von Spee's operation/hunt for the East Asia Squadron could itself constitute a very interesting campaign. Imagine commandig von Spee's ships, avoiding enemy while constantly collecting coal from anywhere you can find - or hunting for an elusive enemy force with limited resources, trying to prevent them from hurting your shipping or reaching home waters. The map would have to be HUGE - whole Atlantic and all western coast of both Americas at least.
Actually, von Spee's operation/hunt for the East Asia Squadron could itself constitute a very interesting campaign. Imagine commandig von Spee's ships, avoiding enemy while constantly collecting coal from anywhere you can find - or hunting for an elusive enemy force with limited resources, trying to prevent them from hurting your shipping or reaching home waters. The map would have to be HUGE - whole Atlantic and all western coast of both Americas at least.
IMHO that can be done in UFO: Enemy Unknown syle - the globe instead of big map.
And I definately agree with you, Rhetor. Von Spee's campaign will be good indeed, though I would like to have opportunity to send some more ships to Von-Spee - perhaps Von-Der-Tann alone would be enough to face "Something is wrong with our bloody ships today" (c).
:p
IMHO that can be done in UFO: Enemy Unknown syle - the globe instead of big map.
And I definately agree with you, Rhetor. Von Spee's campaign will be good indeed, though I would like to have opportunity to send some more ships to Von-Spee - perhaps Von-Der-Tann alone would be enough to face "Something is wrong with our bloody ships today" (c).
:p
Oh, anything to make Royal Navy suffer would be welcome.
The "Perfidious Albion" shall see my wrath soon :-D
Bullethead
29 May 07, 17:38
Actually, von Spee's operation/hunt for the East Asia Squadron could itself constitute a very interesting campaign. Imagine commandig von Spee's ships, avoiding enemy while constantly collecting coal from anywhere you can find - or hunting for an elusive enemy force with limited resources, trying to prevent them from hurting your shipping or reaching home waters. The map would have to be HUGE - whole Atlantic and all western coast of both Americas at least.
Some years ago, a guy named Paul Shaffer made this very game, which was called "Raider Operations". I worked with him on it for quite a while. He never could get a publisher so eventually released it as a subscription service under another name which I forget. It didn't last long as a commercial venture, I'm afraid, but it was a valiant effort.
The game was amazingly replayable despite the fact that it always started the same. You had the same few German ships always starting in the same places, and they always had the whole world after them. But I worked on this for a number of years and it never got old, because you had so many choices of what to do and the AI was not predictable at all. From both sides, it was extremely tense. I still play it now and again because, despite absolutely zero sound and the crudest of graphics (many of which I made myself with MS Paint), the gameplay was just that good.
The interface was quite interesting and definitely unique in my experience of military sims. There was a main game window had a command bar across the top and several panes within it. One pane was the strat map, which was the entire world in Mercator projection. Another pane was for text messages generated by the game at the strat level, saying what your ships were doing, spotting reports on the enemy. Both panes were resizable and you could zoom the strat map in and out over a huge range. When battles happened, each one would pop up in a new window so you could have several going on at once, and jump back and forth between them as needed. Each battle window had a tactical view and a field for tactical text messages, such as damage reports. All the graphics were 2D with the antique black/white/magenta/cyan colors so there was no real load from that.
One of the exceptionally cool features was the dynamic ship ownership. We'd have MP games with 4-6 players and could swap who owned which ships on the fly, even during battles, with a single click. This worked for swapping between humans and between human and AI.
Anyway, the attraction of the game was its ability to provide non-stop tension over and over. Only SMS Konigsberg began the game close to the enemy so all the others had plenty of directions to disappear into. Realworld communications facilities in the various regions were in the game (some of which could be destroyed), so the time lag between ships on 1 side doing something and the other side hearing about it was sometimes long and always variable.
The game was scored by the Germans gaining "prestige points" for things like capturing merchants, raiding Entente bases, sinking Entente warships, delaying or even damaging the various troop convoys from the Brit and French empires (major points for this stuff), getting back to Germany (again, major points), and survival time. The game ended when the last German was dead or back home, and victory was determined by how many points the Germans had scored up to that point (the Entente didn't score points).
The Entente mission was to kill the Germans and get the troop convoys through on time. To help kill the Germans, the Entente could do amphibious ops to capture German bases. This forced the Germans grub for coal in neutral ports, which gave away their position, or else try to find German colliers in various locations which the Entente often had staked out, or else to live off their captures (some of which might be colliers). As time went by, therefore, German coaling options decreased, and the Entente could focus in better on those remaining. Also, more and more Entente ships joined the hunt. Periodically, the RN would detach stuff from the Grand Fleet (usually BCs and CLs), and once the IJN took Tsingtao, all its ships (including vicious BCs and CLs) came boiling out of the Pacific. So by early 1915, it was definitely time for the Germans to get home if they could :).
The truly amazing part of this game was that it was equally good from both sides. As the Germans, it was kinda like the Russians in RJW DG. All about piracy and being sneaky, but capitalizing on opportunities to score big. As the Entente, you never felt like you had enough stuff to cover all the bases, but each German you killed made it that much easier to get another by allowing further concentration.
Oh well. That was long ago and far away. Glad I had the opportunity :).
Some years ago, a guy named Paul Shaffer made this very game, which was called "Raider Operations". I worked with him on it for quite a while. He never could get a publisher so eventually released it as a subscription service under another name which I forget. It didn't last long as a commercial venture, I'm afraid, but it was a valiant effort.
The game was amazingly replayable despite the fact that it always started the same. You had the same few German ships always starting in the same places, and they always had the whole world after them. But I worked on this for a number of years and it never got old, because you had so many choices of what to do and the AI was not predictable at all. From both sides, it was extremely tense. I still play it now and again because, despite absolutely zero sound and the crudest of graphics (many of which I made myself with MS Paint), the gameplay was just that good.
The interface was quite interesting and definitely unique in my experience of military sims. There was a main game window had a command bar across the top and several panes within it. One pane was the strat map, which was the entire world in Mercator projection. Another pane was for text messages generated by the game at the strat level, saying what your ships were doing, spotting reports on the enemy. Both panes were resizable and you could zoom the strat map in and out over a huge range. When battles happened, each one would pop up in a new window so you could have several going on at once, and jump back and forth between them as needed. Each battle window had a tactical view and a field for tactical text messages, such as damage reports. All the graphics were 2D with the antique black/white/magenta/cyan colors so there was no real load from that.
One of the exceptionally cool features was the dynamic ship ownership. We'd have MP games with 4-6 players and could swap who owned which ships on the fly, even during battles, with a single click. This worked for swapping between humans and between human and AI.
Anyway, the attraction of the game was its ability to provide non-stop tension over and over. Only SMS Konigsberg began the game close to the enemy so all the others had plenty of directions to disappear into. Realworld communications facilities in the various regions were in the game (some of which could be destroyed), so the time lag between ships on 1 side doing something and the other side hearing about it was sometimes long and always variable.
The game was scored by the Germans gaining "prestige points" for things like capturing merchants, raiding Entente bases, sinking Entente warships, delaying or even damaging the various troop convoys from the Brit and French empires (major points for this stuff), getting back to Germany (again, major points), and survival time. The game ended when the last German was dead or back home, and victory was determined by how many points the Germans had scored up to that point (the Entente didn't score points).
The Entente mission was to kill the Germans and get the troop convoys through on time. To help kill the Germans, the Entente could do amphibious ops to capture German bases. This forced the Germans grub for coal in neutral ports, which gave away their position, or else try to find German colliers in various locations which the Entente often had staked out, or else to live off their captures (some of which might be colliers). As time went by, therefore, German coaling options decreased, and the Entente could focus in better on those remaining. Also, more and more Entente ships joined the hunt. Periodically, the RN would detach stuff from the Grand Fleet (usually BCs and CLs), and once the IJN took Tsingtao, all its ships (including vicious BCs and CLs) came boiling out of the Pacific. So by early 1915, it was definitely time for the Germans to get home if they could :).
The truly amazing part of this game was that it was equally good from both sides. As the Germans, it was kinda like the Russians in RJW DG. All about piracy and being sneaky, but capitalizing on opportunities to score big. As the Entente, you never felt like you had enough stuff to cover all the bases, but each German you killed made it that much easier to get another by allowing further concentration.
Oh well. That was long ago and far away. Glad I had the opportunity :).
Bullethead, that sounds very interesting. Where could one get this game?
Bullethead, that sounds very interesting. Where could one get this game?
Same question here :smoke:
BTW, I would be pleased to see Norm or Jim saying something about campaign mode of Jutland. I mean I will buy it certainly, but some info about new title would be nice...
:halo:
Bullethead
30 May 07, 11:07
Bullethead, that sounds very interesting. Where could one get this game?
The official site (http://members.tripod.com/hsr_historicalgames/ro.htm) is still up but hasn't been updated in 3.5 years, so I figure the whole enterprise is defunct :(. You might be able to get in touch with Paul, however, and see what he can do for you.
The official site (http://members.tripod.com/hsr_historicalgames/ro.htm) is still up but hasn't been updated in 3.5 years, so I figure the whole enterprise is defunct :(. You might be able to get in touch with Paul, however, and see what he can do for you.
Thanks, I'll do that.
oz_boater
17 May 08, 12:32
The official site (http://members.tripod.com/hsr_historicalgames/ro.htm) is still up but hasn't been updated in 3.5 years, so I figure the whole enterprise is defunct :(. You might be able to get in touch with Paul, however, and see what he can do for you.
Interestingly I have come across this message by searching for info on Paul and his game - now called "Strategic Naval Gunnery" and happens to include a complete Jutland scenario (even a few AARs) but not having it yet I don't know if it has a campaign.
Just thought I would mention it for anyone insterested.
The website is now:
http://members.tripod.com/hsr_historicalgames/
Regards
Richard Simpson
Sydney, Australia
www.ausbg.org
Bullethead
17 May 08, 15:02
Interestingly I have come across this message by searching for info on Paul and his game - now called "Strategic Naval Gunnery" and happens to include a complete Jutland scenario (even a few AARs) but not having it yet I don't know if it has a campaign.
I'd like to think Paul's still in business. He's a good guy and I worked with him for many years. FWIW, I wrote the original Jutland scenario for his game and the last time I looked at his site (1 year ago judging by the dates on the earlier posts of this thread), the Jutland AAR up there was the from a game I played in some years before then. I was in command of all the German light forces in that one.
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.