View Full Version : Baltic Supply
Menschenfresser
06 May 07, 21:06
Playing a solo game of EA (latest version) and the Soviets have decided not to take the Baltic States hoping to appease the west. Well, it turns out the exclusion zone is keeping supply from reaching the entire Baltic region. Seeing as how we have extra supply points now, why not add one to Riga.
This might be known as I don't keep fully up-to-date on EA issues.
But this brings up the question of adding other supply points. Possibly getting rid of some of the sea supply roads.
Playing a solo game of EA (latest version) and the Soviets have decided not to take the Baltic States hoping to appease the west. Well, it turns out the exclusion zone is keeping supply from reaching the entire Baltic region. Seeing as how we have extra supply points now, why not add one to Riga.
This might be known as I don't keep fully up-to-date on EA issues.
But this brings up the question of adding other supply points. Possibly getting rid of some of the sea supply roads.
The Sea Supply Roads are gone, though this version has not yet been released.
Good catch, however, on the lack of supply to the Balts. I, personally, am thinking an SP at Ventspils so that the Curland Pocket can happen, late in the war, if the situation warrants.
Mark Stevens
07 May 07, 12:25
I know that I'm going to be missing something blindingly obvious but, if you open a game of EA and turn on supply for Axis turn one, it appears all over the Baltic States. (I was going to attach a picture but my loyal firewall seems determined to prevent it, even when notionally turned off, shades of "I, Robot".)
Does that supply disappear after a few turns, or have I misunderstood the point (quite likely)? :clown:
(Mantis sits impatiently, waiting for horrible ol' Canada Post to get his copy of TOAW III to him...)
I know that I'm going to be missing something blindingly obvious but, if you open a game of EA and turn on supply for Axis turn one, it appears all over the Baltic States. (I was going to attach a picture but my loyal firewall seems determined to prevent it, even when notionally turned off, shades of "I, Robot".)
Does that supply disappear after a few turns, or have I misunderstood the point (quite likely)? :clown:
Sure...on turn one, they can trace from other Axis-controlled supply points. However, once the Soviets line up on the border, there is no way for the supply to get to the Baltic States through the combination of Soviet zoc's and the exclusion zone hexes.
(Mark - remember that supply can be traced through enemy controlled hexes so long as there is a path with no enemy ZoC to block them).
Sure...on turn one, they can trace from other Axis-controlled supply points. However, once the Soviets line up on the border, there is no way for the supply to get to the Baltic States through the combination of Soviet zoc's and the exclusion zone hexes.
Specifically Brest-Litovsk and Iran. However, as soon as the Poles withdraw and Iran is knocked out (or the supply blocked via ZOC), Baltic Supply goes away.
This was not an issue previously, but with a stronger Baltic presence that actually means something if the Sovs invade, they should be supplied, or they'll be shells and not matter, should the Sovs choose to invade.
Mark Stevens
07 May 07, 17:37
"(Mark - remember that supply can be traced through enemy controlled hexes so long as there is a path with no enemy ZoC to block them)."
Course I hadn't.
Wyatt - do we have anything down to provide supply for the virtually-always-killed Persians? It really sucked to just have them wither on the vine. I've had a few players that didn't come through there in a proper line (so to speak), and I was able to survive with a couple of those units (broken into thirds) for ages before I was hunted down and exterminated. I've actually had a couple of the units hide out deep in the mountains until such time as the Germans invaded, and I was raising hell in the back field with the little buggers.
Would be great if we dropped a supply point in there to at least give them a chance to fight it out. My own tactic with the Reds is to not even fight them - just hunt them all down, encircle and wait for overruns to do the job. Takes several turns, but the Russians have all the time in the world when it's only turn 3 and they invade...
With a couple of Canucks running this show now, what we need to get them motivated is one of those good ol' drinking songs. Sing along with me. You all know the tune...
Ninety-nine points of supply on the wall
Ninety-nine points of supply
Take one down, pass it around
Ninety-eight points of supply on the wall
Specifically Brest-Litovsk and Iran. However, as soon as the Poles withdraw and Iran is knocked out (or the supply blocked via ZOC), Baltic Supply goes away.
This was not an issue previously, but with a stronger Baltic presence that actually means something if the Sovs invade, they should be supplied, or they'll be shells and not matter, should the Sovs choose to invade.
Wyatt - do we have anything down to provide supply for the virtually-always-killed Persians? It really sucked to just have them wither on the vine. I've had a few players that didn't come through there in a proper line (so to speak), and I was able to survive with a couple of those units (broken into thirds) for ages before I was hunted down and exterminated. I've actually had a couple of the units hide out deep in the mountains until such time as the Germans invaded, and I was raising hell in the back field with the little buggers.
Would be great if we dropped a supply point in there to at least give them a chance to fight it out. My own tactic with the Reds is to not even fight them - just hunt them all down, encircle and wait for overruns to do the job. Takes several turns, but the Russians have all the time in the world when it's only turn 3 and they invade...
Shane, to answer your question, I point you to the bold part of my previous post...:laugh:
Mark put an SP in Tehran in the last released version.
With a couple of Canucks running this show now, what we need to get them motivated is one of those good ol' drinking songs. Sing along with me. You all know the tune...
Ninety-nine points of supply on the wall
Ninety-nine points of supply
Take one down, pass it around
Ninety-eight points of supply on the wall
:laugh: I've already begun using those up as I have removed the Sea Supply Roads. :D
Bdr.Mallette
07 May 07, 20:44
Hello,
What about splitting up the Iranian forces... fighting in the mountains at brigade, div. level must be totally infeasible in most cases.... how about lots of small reg.'ts or battalions to keep at least 8-10 Soviet Units tied up rather than a small group of 5-6 units that can pretty well clean up the Iranians.... iunno, what we see today leaves me to believe they would have fought alot like the Afghani's did..guerrilla warfare...but I'm sure you guys have researched this before at some point. Smaller, faster light units...horseback...
attack and scatter...attack...scatter...etc.
bdr.
Hello,
What about splitting up the Iranian forces... fighting in the mountains at brigade, div. level must be totally infeasible in most cases.... how about lots of small reg.'ts or battalions to keep at least 8-10 Soviet Units tied up rather than a small group of 5-6 units that can pretty well clean up the Iranians.... iunno, what we see today leaves me to believe they would have fought alot like the Afghani's did..guerrilla warfare...but I'm sure you guys have researched this before at some point. Smaller, faster light units...horseback...
attack and scatter...attack...scatter...etc.
bdr.
Well, the real thing about the Iranians is that they were taken out in a mere couple weeks. We can't really make them much more effective than they are, as that would make it pretty unhistorical.
Menschenfresser
07 May 07, 21:12
Are there any new Allied landing spots in France, Italy, etc? IIRC, they were somewhat limited in previous versions?
Are there any new Allied landing spots in France, Italy, etc? IIRC, they were somewhat limited in previous versions?
No extra SPs have been added.
Currently, the Allies can get supply from Normandy, Cherbourg, Antwerp, Calais, and Antwerp, in North-West Europe.
Along the Under-belly, the Allies can get supply from Marseille, Genoa, Anzio, Salerno, Taranto, and Gela (Sicily).
Where else did you feel an SP warranted, Zac?
And if the Western Allies chose to land in Greece, they would be looking at getting supply from Athens. Perhaps another SP could be added in Greece...Does anyone know where the Allies were planning to land, and what port they were planning to use, had they invaded Greece?
And if the Western Allies chose to land in Greece, they would be looking at getting supply from Athens. Perhaps another SP could be added in Greece...Does anyone know where the Allies were planning to land, and what port they were planning to use, had they invaded Greece?
I think Thessalonika would be the obvious candidate for additional SP, if you're adding any down there.
Bdr.Mallette
08 May 07, 00:01
Yep,
somehwre's on Greece, as long as Malta is still allied contolled as well as possibly Alexandria...or Supply on Crete could be a possible fallback position...sure woulda been a ***** to attack if a substantial force defended it on either side.
Iranians were more a political fold, no, because of the Nazi actions on Jewish peoples. Iunno.
bdr.
Iranians were more a political fold, no, because of the Nazi actions on Jewish peoples. Iunno.
Be the reason Political or Militarily, they were, basically, walk-over. Pumping them up would end up being unhistorical.
Shane, to answer your question, I point you to the bold part of my previous post...:laugh:
Mark put an SP in Tehran in the last released version.
See what comes of me not having T3 yet? :D Also - sometimes my posts are more disjointed that usual, as I cannot surf the forums when I have TOAW running (this PC is a real dog), and I can't peruse a thread and then post in a smooth fashion, I have to jump back and forth between work and play too much, and I miss things like this.
And here I thought I had an original suggestion...
:laugh:
With a couple of Canucks running this show now, what we need to get them motivated is one of those good ol' drinking songs. Sing along with me. You all know the tune...
Ninety-nine points of supply on the wall
Ninety-nine points of supply
Take one down, pass it around
Ninety-eight points of supply on the wall
:clown:
That just won't work... I never seem to get lower than 60 before the lights go out...
Hello,
What about splitting up the Iranian forces... fighting in the mountains at brigade, div. level must be totally infeasible in most cases.... how about lots of small reg.'ts or battalions to keep at least 8-10 Soviet Units tied up rather than a small group of 5-6 units that can pretty well clean up the Iranians.... iunno, what we see today leaves me to believe they would have fought alot like the Afghani's did..guerrilla warfare...but I'm sure you guys have researched this before at some point. Smaller, faster light units...horseback...
attack and scatter...attack...scatter...etc.
bdr.
I see your point, but I'm not entirely sure if its required. I'd like to see anyone round me up easily with only 5 or 6 units - I break the few units the Iranians get into thirds, and scatter them to the wind if I see something like what you describe. On min losses, all you do is chase me one hex deeper into the mountains, and then sit... Lather, rinse, repeat. :) And the Russians have a mess of units perfect for preventing this tactic. As the Reds, I come in with about 3 or 4 corps, a few cav, and a host of NKVD units that are setup to convert all the hexes as I go along, to ensure that no one is slipping past me with their thirds... ;)
It doesn't take much at all to round them all up, encircle and destroy. And there is no reason not to do so as the Reds. The only thing you can have going on at the same time is basically the Finns, and the NKVD are virtually useless up there.
No extra SPs have been added.
Currently, the Allies can get supply from Normandy, Cherbourg, Antwerp, Calais, and Antwerp, in North-West Europe.
Along the Under-belly, the Allies can get supply from Marseille, Genoa, Anzio, Salerno, Taranto, and Gela (Sicily).
Where else did you feel an SP warranted, Zac?
And if the Western Allies chose to land in Greece, they would be looking at getting supply from Athens. Perhaps another SP could be added in Greece...Does anyone know where the Allies were planning to land, and what port they were planning to use, had they invaded Greece?
What would be nice is if we had a supply unit that actually provided supply. Perhaps it would have to be stationed in a major port to do so (ala Mulberry?), but I think this would be great. They should be non-reconstituting, so they would be incredibly precious...
What would be nice is if we had a supply unit that actually provided supply. Perhaps it would have to be stationed in a major port to do so (ala Mulberry?), but I think this would be great. They should be non-reconstituting, so they would be incredibly precious...
There's a couple options here.
1) Implementation of Kraut's Beachhead Supply System.
2) TOs, maybe only one available every six months, that provide supply at a certain beach. These SPs could then be withdrawn 2,3,6 months later, meaning the Allies would have to have captured a major port to maintain their supply level.
:clown:
That just won't work... I never seem to get lower than 60 before the lights go out...
You must have missed the part about "pass it around" you greedy ratfink...:laugh: :drink:
You said yourself that you were talking to Canucks when you typed that in - know your audience!
:laugh:
Mark Stevens
08 May 07, 17:47
"Currently, the Allies can get supply from Normandy, Cherbourg, Antwerp, Calais, and Antwerp, in North-West Europe."
I think that one of the Antwerps is an Amsterdam, and don't forget Paris: if the Axis player has occupied every possible port and doesn't look like budging it is still possible for the Allies to land on the coast and press on like a maniac - admittedly unsupplied - towards Paris: taking that resurrects the Allied supply point and completely undermines an Axis coastal defensive crust strategy (I only mention this because it happened to me once). You need to blow some bridges to stop Axis reinforcements railing in, and scattering some paratroops around to slow the coastal defenders, but it can be done.
Mark Stevens
08 May 07, 18:00
Also, if it's such a doddle to take out Iran, and the Soviets do it every game, I wonder whether the former should be surrounded by the same exclusion zone that prevents the Germans and Russians fighting before they're at war?
It was only in August 1941 (i.e. immediately after the start of 'Barbarossa') that Britain and the USSR invaded. Before then the USSR was effectively a German ally, and presumably Britain (and the US) would have been horrified to see Stalin creeping towards the Arabian oilfields and Suez?
Worth a thought, but what ever we do the Iranians must be crap, militarily speaking.
"Currently, the Allies can get supply from Normandy, Cherbourg, Antwerp, Calais, and Antwerp, in North-West Europe."
I think that one of the Antwerps is an Amsterdam
Right.
and don't forget Paris: if the Axis player has occupied every possible port and doesn't look like budging it is still possible for the Allies to land on the coast and press on like a maniac - admittedly unsupplied - towards Paris: taking that resurrects the Allied supply point and completely undermines an Axis coastal defensive crust strategy (I only mention this because it happened to me once). You need to blow some bridges to stop Axis reinforcements railing in, and scattering some paratroops around to slow the coastal defenders, but it can be done.
I was only mentioning the coastal SPs. Going for PAris is certainly a novel way to get your armies in France supplied. :laugh:
Also, if it's such a doddle to take out Iran, and the Soviets do it every game, I wonder whether the former should be surrounded by the same exclusion zone that prevents the Germans and Russians fighting before they're at war?
Good point.
It was only in August 1941 (i.e. immediately after the start of 'Barbarossa') that Britain and the USSR invaded. Before then the USSR was effectively a German ally, and presumably Britain (and the US) would have been horrified to see Stalin creeping towards the Arabian oilfields and Suez?
Good point.
Worth a thought, but what ever we do the Iranians must be crap, militarily speaking.
True.
Well, I haven't been anything but the Allies for a looong time now (exclusing my game with Veers); how about some other players chime in? Do you always take Iran out ASAP with the Reds?
And we can think about it two ways - instead of an exclusion zone, if this TO appears to be chosen alot, why not just make it a hit to the USEV? a 100% chance of a -5 or something? Not everyone always attacks the Russians through Iran, and if they don't, then taking this option (pre-emptively!) gains you nothing - indeed, it hurts you (the penalty to the USEV).
Menschenfresser
08 May 07, 20:05
Giving my question a second thought, I think my impression came from a game I played against Foggy where he tried to invade the northern coast of France west of Cherbourg and Spain (Spain was active). And neither landing had supply (IIRC).
So...if the Axis has France and Spain (and Portugal), why not add some SPs for an Iberian D-Day. I don't know where they are out there. I think one is Lisabon.
*shrugs*
Perhaps the road to improve the Iranian matrix is to add in more regional flavor/effects. Maybe Turkey should feel more threatened. I can't find what the effects are now, if any. Dunno. Something to think about. The solo game I have going now, I'm just ignoring Iran. It's boring and short.
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