governament relations

[Artur]

Here is the post I received from Skirmisher. It looks like the governament has more sense then the rebels.

Hello ,

Your commander requested I get in touch with you if I had anything to say.
I do.

My commanders and I wish to work with you to A)keep innocent Civilians alive
B)keep the Weapons you have confiscated out of the Rebels hands
C)keep the Islands Infastructure intact
D)bring the Rebels to thier knees

I look forward to hearing from yourself or your head commnader.

Good Day,
Skirmisher

[mr_clark]

well, really sounds a little more sensefull, though it is, of course, a little bit biased.
Of course for us points a to c are accepted, though we should add to b that the government will not get any weapons either.
We can't comment on c as we are not (yet?!?) allowed to take side.

[Pannonicus]

I just got a message from Temujin:

First of all let me tell you in confidence that I am the Commanding Officer of our citizens rebel forces. I tell you this in confidence, any hint that the government knows that i am CO will damage the trust we have between us.

Also, let me say that it is the citizens will that the yoke of oppression be lifted from our people this will be done I am sure with sacrifices of the people however it WILL be done.

As the representatives of the UN you are given the task to protect the people, we are the people we have the interests of the people in mind when we say we must be given an opportunity to construct larger forces so we can free ourselves from the evil oppressors.

Your presence here enhances the status quo and therfore the suffering onto the peoploe by our corrupt government.

We believe our best interests will be served if we are given access to all the cities in the north above the river. At this point in time our deployment is such that we can GAURANTEE your forces a protected path thru to the capital and airfield from citie A and G, we cannot gaurantee movement from J until you reach G as our intelligence reports a strong government presence in that area, however, if given cities A and G we can at once dispatch forces to dispatch those government forces threatening your convoy.
We understand you are strong with good equipment and training, however your numbers are weak, we can easily take the north from you if we wish however as I have stated before this is a last resort so goodwill remains in the international community.

However if we are forced to act thier will be losses in the cities of our own people, niether of us wish to see this but the people are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.

Our charitable offer of a safe passage to the south also gives you the opportunity to bolster your defences in the south leaving you with an inpenatrable defence from the marauding government forces. It is our wish to begin an offensive immeadiately so that the government forces are unable to endanger our industrial capital and airport as the infrastructure their is needed to rebuild our countries economy to bring prosperity to the people.

As i have said it is inevitable that we the people shall succeed in this quest for freedom and prosperity, your presence here only serves to prolong this quest and bring more misery to the people of this island. If you truly wish to protect our people please consider this proposal fully before you reply.

You only need to walk the streets and listen to what the people are saying to know what I say is true and genuine, that we rebel forces represent the will of the people.
The way i see it if you ally yourself with another team you will have more chances to fight in larger battles and more often. If you don't ally yourself you will be destroyed in the north and southwest leaving you in the capital and airport.

You wont be attacked there because the pro gov and rebel teams need not go there and if they do they have to worry about fighting on two fronts.

So the campaign will be quick for you, you will have some quick battles in the north and thats it, you will be too weak to send out patrols and defend the cities at the same time.

so my proposal is you withdraw with our help to the capital, then you will be able to send out massed patrols and 'accidentally' run into the pro gov forces and encourage them to attack you giving you more enjoyment in the campaign. remember you cant win so you may as well enjoy it.

I will keep you informed of both our movements and what we know of theirs too. Plus you can set up encounters with us if you wish in the later stages so you get more battles out of the game. I'll let you know which formations not to attack please.

we have no need to take the capital or airport so we wont attack you if you allow us to take the northern cities above the river.

So well, this is what rebels want. Not considering the political ********, they want us to get out of the main zone of operations. I think we should say to them that first we are regrouping at G then we move south in force, so that we can pass govt.-controlled N zone. This way we might regroup our forces safely in G, then if we succed, they wont try to attack us any more as it would be way too costly.

What do you think?

[Pannonicus]

I made a deal with the govt. commander. They pull out of I and N, and they will not attack our forces. There might be rebels between A and G, but I am confident I can treat them as well. There would be no UN-other party fighting at the beginning, I hope. I gave them intel how to find each other in the countryside, so they could exhaust each other easier... :devil:

I find diplomacy a lot more interesting than actual fighting. :D

Negotiations are still going on behind the curtains...

[mr_clark]

Well, you're really a diplomat.

Hell, when I read this rebel proposal again I think they are insane (or just bluffing quite hard). *g*


It is good to know that you gave the two other sides ample opportunity to battle them but not us in the beginning!

Continue this way and we might actually do not have to fight against large assaults until we receive our reinforcements.

Good Luck,
Felix

BTW. are you sleeping at all that you can arrange such things at 2.00h in the night??? (at least that was the time you posted :p)

[Pannonicus]

This is from the rebels - I do not like them as they are not that matter-of-factly as govt. commanders. Anyway, a deal is underway.

"Greetings Lt General,
Glad to see we both have the peoples
intersts at heart.

My intel also suggests those troop strenghs in O. I have a suspicion
that there is also a presence near Zone J.

So what I suggest is that you move from Zone A to C in the first turn,
we have units there but will move them towards J in the first turn and
our units in B will move into the town to stup a interim government to
start aiding the citizens.

I ask you hold on in J for now we will head there at once with our
armour, also i have intel saying the strategy of the government is to
wait and see what we rebels do so if this is true it could buy you some
time.

Once everything is in place and we control A and J we will draw the
government into a fight away from the road so you can make your getaway
with minor resistence, and they will probably not attack you in that
instance, they will be too scared im sure, to commit in two battles.

I do have a problem tho, explaining to my commanders what I am doing as
we are a democratic army i need to keep them informed. What do you know
about this mole in our ranks, i heard the government talking about one
on the diplomatic chanel but i believe this to be misinformation
designed to make us paranoid of each other, any info you have on this
matter will help our cause.

I think i will inform one of my comrades of our plans, if any
information leaks I will know who it is and if not i will have an ally
to back up my plans to the others."

I think I can arrange with them that they move from C and B to F, therefore clearing the way from A to C. Simultaneously, I will ask our govt friends to move their troops from I to allow our forces to leave. When they both move on J they will find there each other in turn 2. It will be quite a sight. I suppose, rebels will win, a they seem to me more powerful than govt forces in the area. Anyway, we will watch it from G. :D :D :D

In O they will also fight each other, as now they both know the other is there as well. I will ask the govt to send their forces from N to O just to add to the fun. This way they can owerpower rebels there. And the road for the convoy from T to G will be open.

If everything goes well and I don't make a mistake, at the end of turn 3 we will have two exhausted and paranoid (they find each other wherever they go) commanders facing each other, while we are sitting in G with a partially mechanized infantry battalion, with road open from AA/CC to G. That could be a dream come true.

So we might get that free ride to G. I also made them a little paranoid about each other, this should slow down transfer of informations between them, so it is easier to infulence the commander. I am doing psyops :D

[mr_clark]

well, Pannonicus now just hope that the others don't start to get curious why they always "sit on each other" it starts to work out nicely for us.
I would really like the situation that we only have to fighter larger scale after our reinforcements arrived...

Keep on doing your Psy-Ops man!!! (remember "Apocalypse Now?)

[Pannonicus]

well, Pannonicus now just hope that the others don't start to get curious why they always "sit on each other" it starts to work out nicely for us.
I would really like the situation that we only have to fighter larger scale after our reinforcements arrived...

Keep on doing your Psy-Ops man!!! (remember "Apocalypse Now?)

One of my favourite movies! As far as the others, I worry about rebels mostly. They are a bunch of reckeless people, I cannot really trust them. I am especially afraid of them launching a strike on G. Our forces in C will be in danger when moving as well.

I hope for the best.

Lt.Gen. Tóth

[Pannonicus]

Hi all,

it seems that the rebels betrayed us, they are attacking city G. Probably from all directions, if the psychological analysis of their commander is right. So those poor UNs face 7-8 companies of infantry and probably all their armour there! Luckily, they have a Mirage on alert with cannons and rockets, it gives them some extra anti-armour capability.

Now, what should we do in your opinion? It seems desperate, it puts us in a very difficult situation, I am afraid...

The good news are:
The road from AA to S is clear, and the mechanized group is being put together there, next turn they can advance north if needed.

Movement from A is successful, however, in C they are still in danger as they are probably surrounded by Rebels. No news from J yet, but they should have no problem. They are to reinforce G, they will be an effective infantry killer.

Troops from G will probably have to move to C and join forces there. J should go as well, so at the end of the day we might have a battalion of infantry in C. Then it can join with forces from the south in M, for example.

I am desperate for your opinions!

Regards,
Lt.Gen. Tóth

[TF 1-37]

Lt. Gen.

That is unfortunate news indeed, but not fatal. First of all, it brings us a temporary ally in the pro-gov't forces. Perhaps we can join them together in a turn 2 or turn 3 counterattack on G?

I want to think about this somemore before forming a complete opinion, but it seems to me that we should let the forces in G conduct a fighting withdrawal south toward S. I am especially anxious that the UK reach S to join the Ukrainians. If sucessful we can have 2 Peacekeeper battalions plus the Ukrainians and the UK in S, ready to move to recapture G with the potential help of the Gov't.

I think we should leave the peacekeepers in C to their own for the time being. If the Rebel's attack G with as much as 8-9 companies, then they only have 1 or 2 left for C. I don't think that should be unmanagable, especially with some airsupport. If they have more in C then we may lose the PK company, but have better odds at G. I definately would not have the peacekeepers and UK in G move toward C. That would leave us badly split into 2 somewhat equal groups which cannot reinforce each other. Better to lose a company than be split into 2 groups and beaten in detail. Again, maybe the pro-gov't forces can help in C?

Col. Boomer

[mr_clark]

I agree to TF's opinion, we should try to fight together with the government troops, for now, as much as possible. And the rest of the plan also sounds not bad, we should really strike as hard as we can, but not to reckless as also the government might wan't to profit from our bad situation.

P.S. Sorry for not being here since tuesday, something unexpected happened and I was unable to log the net.

[TF 1-37]

It looks like all of our forces except the ones in G are ok for now. The PK company in C found no enemy and the PK company moving to S got there sucessfully. Therefore the only forces to fight will likely be the PK Company in G and the UK moving into G.

Let's see what the battle briefing says, but here is one strategy. We tell the Rebel battle commander that our troops will start withdrawing south and that we expect that the Rebels will not fire on our troops. If they do not, they will be left in control of G. If they fire on us, they will be in violation of international law and we will be forced to hunt them down and capture or exterminate them. Then we privately reinforce that by telling them that if they fire on us, we will work with the government against them. By not firing, they preserve a chance to win, but if they fire, they probably ensure that the government will win. Their choice.

What we don't tell them is that even if we withdraw from G, we intend to be back soon in force.

Col. Boomer

[Pannonicus]

OK, this is my correspondence lately with the Rebel mastermind:

"C. General,

I think you miss some points here:

-first of all before parading somebody you have to capture that person.
I am not aware of any of my officers missing yet.
-By compromising our neutrality you make a serious mistake. I am not
sure if you want government forces gain excellent intelligence on your
troops. You would not belive what we know from satellite intelligence.
It is not very valuable to us, but I am sure the government would love
it.
-If you insist taking G we might also offer some helicopters to the
government. How would you like that? (Our air force can protect us
from those any time, it is only a danger to your ragtag forces.)
-There is a US Marine MEU offshore this island. If UN is attacked, they
can deliver you some very serious blows.
-I still do not want to have grudge with your forces, like I told, I am only
intereseted in protecting my troops and keeping as much civilians safe
as I can. I gave you the city of A, and I could have given you J and G as
well. If you want success in the hard way, then do it, but be prepared
for the worst.

As a temporary measure I am calling on you to halt your forces heading
toward UN-occupied areas - then we can hold further talks. If you insist
on your foolishness, at the end of the day you and your thugs will be
paraded and hung.

Sincerely yours,
Lt.Gen. Tóth

Paul Gibb <PA_Gibb@westnet.com.au> írta:

> General
>
> You didnt think i would be foolish enough to actually split my forces in
> such a way did you?
> I saw you coming a mile off General, but all is fair in love and war i
> hold no grudge.
> We can still help each other out, but please this time don't be so
> foolish as to try your doublecross again please. You slick Europeans
> were not the only ones blessed with cunning you know, we islanders
can
> mix it with the best.
>
> Now lets get down to some real business. you still have your
northern
> forces alive and well and i am prepared to make a deal to keep it that
> way. However it may cost you some 'hardware' for your insolence.
>
> I am prepared to allow your forces to WALK out of our northern area
of
> operationsas long as you do it immediately. Zone F behind Zone G is
> unoccupied, you will move your infantry their at once leaving your
> armoured units behind. Your troops in Zone C will move directly to
Zone
> M and keep moving till they reach your own lines.
>
> Think yourself lucky i dont parade your officers down the main street
> with their pants around their ankles! Some of my subordinates would
like
> to see that but i am a more civilised man than that, as you will find in
> future dealings with us.
>
> Please stay alive General i like you, you have guts, it would be a pity
> to see any ill fortune come your way.
>
> Sincerely
> Citizen General Temujin."

Generally speaking, he does not trust us at all, so we have to be careful with him. On the other hand the government so far plays fair, I know it from other sources as well. So we might "ally" with them - for a while.

I generally agree with Boomer about withdrawing, I think there is a battle going on in N between govt and rebs, we might be welcome there by the govt. Then we can reinforce, and fresh govt. troops from O could wipe out exhausted and plundering rebels in G. This way the whole thing would end quite quickly, one big battle, then only ruins of the former great armies. Our troops (by that time we could have all mobile formations around G) could finish the work with whichever side remains stronger.

I would like you to keep thinking about ideas, I am not available until Tuesday (unless something is very urgent), and I would like you to present as much plans as possible.

DD do we know anything else about reinforcements? I radioed to the Marine MEU ships that they should be ready to land or at least give us air cover as soon as possible, and I also sent a message to the Secretary General of the UN that they should start raising more troops for this mission.

[Artur]

Question for DD (and for consideration to everyone.)
The Britons are mobile. They move 2 areas an op turn. This way they should arrive at G in the middle of the battle as reinforcements if G is attacked. Am I right???

If yes, we have to somehow hold for a half turn and withdraw together south.

And yes, if our fears come true we have to cooperate with the gov't.

One last word about movement orders. I do not agree with the swapping between AA and CC but I accept it. However I very much advice to return the M60 and the Ukraininan ATGMs back to the Airport ASAP!!! Don't say I didn't tell you :devious:

Artur.

[Double Deuce]

Question for DD (and for consideration to everyone.)
The Britons are mobile. They move 2 areas an op turn. This way they should arrive at G in the middle of the battle as reinforcements if G is attacked. Am I right???
Actually they will be there at the beginning (the turns in this campaign cover a 1 week time period. They will probably be further to the East edge of the actual SPMBT Battle Map though.

[Double Deuce]

Question for the UN team.

I am wondering who is going to explain to the Security Council why innocent civilians in the Northwest were abandoned and now have their town occupied by Rebels. :p

[Pannonicus]

The answer is simple. Our forces are not equipped adequately for the situation, and reliable intelligence sources pointed to the fact that Rebels will launch an offensive. We were totally uncapable of holding all positions, so we are to protect our troops first.

I wonder how politicians will explain the fact (to their voters and other countries) that they sent a force so small here to this island, whithout heavy support, stand-by reinforcements (unless that Marine MEU is serious) and with technology of the 1970s... If major countries and the UN does not want to lose face they have to reinforce us with up-to-date forces QUICK!

[TF 1-37]

DD,

I am not aware of the Security Council ever being publicly critical of a UN commander on the spot who took action to avoid suffering combat casualties to UN troops under his command. Am I missing something?

The UN should rest assured that its forces and commanders remain committed to achieving peace and security for all the island residents. However Lt. Gen Toth has only approximately 6 1/2 companies of troops on the islands with little in the way of supporting heavy weapons. Each of the warring factions has at least 10 companies of troops (20 companies total of potential enemy combatants)and apparently have the initiative since they appear to have achieved more concentration than the UN was allowed.

On a serious note DD, what rules of engagement apply to UN troops in battle. Are we allowed to fire first, or must we await receiving fire? In a situation like that which appears to be taking place in G, will there automatically be combat or might each commander elect to avoid firing on the other for 15 turns?

[Double Deuce]

On a serious note DD, what rules of engagement apply to UN troops in battle. Are we allowed to fire first, or must we await receiving fire? In a situation like that which appears to be taking place in G, will there automatically be combat or might each commander elect to avoid firing on the other for 15 turns?
If either Pro-Government or Rebel forces enter a Zone with a town or the airfield UN Forces are authorized to fire 1st since by local forces entering one of these zones that translates into a hostile action.

[Pannonicus]

Can we retaliate against the violating party in an other sector?

[Double Deuce]

Can we retaliate against the violating party in an other sector?
Yes. In that case you should consider yourselves at war with the offending party but you should be open to possible negotiations (if it wil advance you meeting your mission objectives).

[Pannonicus]

We request additional intel from the UN, like satellite images, US/UK Echelon, advanced SIGINT capabilities, and so on... We would also like to get a blockade on the island both from the sea and the air, so no other country could interfere with the fighting or supply sophisticated equipment to any of the parties.

I am asking these from the UN SC, is a Resolution possible concenrning these?

[Artur]

Based on the intel info given by DD:
I suggest to ally with govt forces and attack G. We could "sell" J to gov't army till the end of the campaign when they will leave it and we keep G. This way we will not retaliate if gov't forcres enter J. If we succeed in this the reds will lose, and both gov't and UN will win.

[Pannonicus]

Artur (and all else),

This is what I am negotiating with the govt commander, he seems a reliable guy (unlike rebels).

However, rebels are concentrated now in G as well, and the govt do not want to attack now. I can understand this, assaulting is not a nice thing, it would likely break down without decisive success.

However, rebels will be forced sooner or later to move out from G, while leaving some of their forces there. It is most likely that they will move towards J, I am encouraging them to do so. (We still have some rather special channels of communications.) We keep them busy (coordinated with govt) in G, so they only gain points from A, while govt will do so from J and T (DD, they promised to send there only small detachments with weapons undrawn, so there will be a peaceful occupation there.)

If rebels send out detachments, either us or the govt will ambush them, and when they move with a larger contingent, massed govt forces will either strike the coloumn or occupy the less defended G, thereby splitting rebel forces. Then we can continue to destroy them piecemal.

So either by battle, or by attrition we have to win. We will bring up mech forces from the south, and we will probably play cavalry for the govt and will provide the decisive mechanized striking force for their operations.

This is my strategic plan for now. I still encourage discussion and new ideas, you put very valuable ideas into it already.

Lt. Gen. Tóth