NTC3 is getting to me!!!

[switch_back]

Hi,

I have a huge problem with one of the DA scenarios named NTC3 playing as blue.

I cannot setup defensive positions properly, because I only have one ADA unit which can only cover a small area and huge waves of bombers are sent over by red in the second turn and destroys every unit they come into contact with, causing 100% casulties. Everything just gets obliterated in the second and third turn, which leaves me few units with low morale to defend against a huge redfor attack.

I see this a nearly impossible. Does anyone have any suggestions?? :(

I am not new to wargaming, and im usually quite capable of smashing the AI on most of the DA scenarios, but this is quite a task!!

Thanks

[CPangracs]

Hi,

I have a huge problem with one of the DA scenarios named NTC3 playing as blue.

I cannot setup defensive positions properly, because I only have one ADA unit which can only cover a small area and huge waves of bombers are sent over by red in the second turn and destroys every unit they come into contact with, causing 100% casulties. Everything just gets obliterated in the second and third turn, which leaves me few units with low morale to defend against a huge redfor attack.

I see this a nearly impossible. Does anyone have any suggestions?? :(

I am not new to wargaming, and im usually quite capable of smashing the AI on most of the DA scenarios, but this is quite a task!!

Thanks
Bombers are very effective in DA. We actually had them toned-down recently for an exercise, so I think the next patch released to the public will have a corrected bomber model. One thing you have to realize as well is that if there is a red unit that has found your units, and the AI places its own TAI in the vicinity of your unit(s), then the bomber attack is even MORE effective!

I have looked at the scenario file, and there are no bombers allocated for this scenario, yet Red has bombers flying missions. This is a bug, and Jim is being notified as we speak!

[switch_back]

Yes I agree there, the bombers are way too effective, capable of destroying an entire battalion in one hit, plus there are not many scenarios where the red forces do not use bombers, yet blue do not seem to ever get a bomber quota?!?!

One laughable point of NTC3 actually is the fact that the AI seems to throw its artillery assets slamming into what is left of my front lines, they eventually get chewed up, right before the entire red force crashes straight thorugh my shell-shocked and tattered lines, without artillery support!! I played the scenario as red and it is wayyyyy to easy, I cant bring myself to play it as red ever again its that easy.

Thanks for the reply, its comforting to know that it was a bug causing a problem and not strategical ignorance.. I hope... lol :D

[switch_back]

Oh and another point, the bombers are hitting targets way to the rear of my forces such as HQ's and support units, I did not observe any red UAV activity over my units nor was there any red unit close enough to view my rear section?? I had a full perimeter security setup there is no way they would have got through with out me knowing.

Perhaps an NAI was in use? but I doubt it because those placed NAI's would have been way too accurate??! :crosseye:

[cbelva]

There is a problem, I believe, with bombers as it stand in the current patch. I have pointed this out to Col Lunsford twice. It appears that in all scenarios, the AI conducts air attacks with bombers only. If you check the allocation of aircrafts for the scenario for NTC3 in the scenario editor, you will find that there are no allocation for bombers for either side. There are allocations of aircraft for both sides, but no bombers. But still the AI uses bombers!!! I have find this for all scenarios incuding ones I have made. Switchback, if you were to switch and play the red side in that same scenario and the AI was to play the blue side, you will find that you cannot use bombers, but the AI will hit your forces with bombers every time they conduct an air attack--no fair. This is a show stopper of a bug when playing with the AI. I am hoping that the Col corrects this in his next patch. CPangracs, I understand that bombers are very powerful, however, the AI should not be using them if I can't and the scenario creator did not build them into the scenario.

[switch_back]

Yes funnily enough I did notice that I wasnt actually allocated bombers as red, just standard airstrikes, but bluefor still gets trashed because it only has one ADA unit with a very limited air cover umbrella and its far too easy to smash the hell out of the ground forces with airstrikes and artillery bombardments before you even get near close manuever engagement!

[CPangracs]

You must also realize that this scenario was NOT created by Jim Lunsford, so don't blame him for a design failure. Also, you can adjust certain things in the scenario for yourself, or better yet, create your own scenario. It won't stop the bombers, but you can add more ADA units to try and offset the bombers. The new patch should address the bomber issue.

[switch_back]

Ok thanks, although rest assured I was by no means making an attack at Jim Lunsford, I think DA is a fantastic wargame and his work is brilliant, I was merly pointing out things I had noticed in the scenario...

Sorry if it sounded like I was making an attack...

[Jim Lunsford]

One of the uesers recently asked me about the AI's use of bombers. This was puuzzling because there are no bombers in the early scenarios. It turns out that I generated a small bug when I made a recent change for the Army. This caused the AI to convert all CAS to bombers. Bombers were meant to replicate the USAF use of B-1, B-2 and B-52 in Afghanistan and not employed against like equipped forces. I will update the patch this weekend and this should eliminate this strange anomaly.

Jim

[switch_back]

Thats a relief thanks Jim, the bombers were starting to annoy me a tad.

Nice work :thumup:

[Don Maddox]

Bombers were meant to replicate the USAF use of B-1, B-2 and B-52 in Afghanistan and not employed against like equipped forces.
Jim
In other words (once you release the new patch), bombers are meant to be used against targets that don't have ADA assets? What effect will bombers have if they are used against (for example) Iraqi forces?

[switch_back]

Bombers such as the B-52 are very valuble assets, and much debating is done before they are released to a conflict, until ADA has been cleared they are merly restricted to firing cruise missiles from afar, they are rarely commited to carpet bombing raids.

In accordance with what I said the B-52 was used extensivley in Afghanistan because ADA was virtually non-exsistant, apart from MANPADS which cannot reach the bombers altitude anyway, and there was no risk to the B-52's so they were allowed to deal their thunder. ( What better for cave bashing :devil: )

So the bombers being used in this way in DA would be realistic, perhaps in the future Jim could add in a cruise missile section to the fires window to simulate the B-52's doing this, it could also be applied to off-map subs and warships? ;)

Does that help Don?