viridomarosvs plutonico

[viridomaros]

situation is quite bad for me mainly due to unluck i can assure you
three turn endings after one combat round ( on 8 turns played)
pretty sure it is due to a fail prof check as after the turn ended my units were still able to move a lot ( 90%)
i experienced this kind of early turn ending in many scenario with a lot of units like in this one, it seems when you are doing too many attacks ( even on minimize losses option) your turn end very early, doesn't seem logic but this is the experience i had
my opponent seem to have many rounds, so i need some advice how to counter an opponent which is going to have more than one round with you only having one any ideas???
of course i could focused on an area to have more rounds but unfortunately situation is so bad that i have to counter attack everywhere.
if only we could erase this profeciency check dammed :mad: :mad:
except this all is going alright :cool:

[nemo]

Do you use the attack planner to check the estimate amount of turn eaten up by each attack? Do by chance include in your attacks units that have moved? 6. Armee artillery most notably has some battalions with very low movement allowance. Setting them on direct attacks could lead to disaster combat round-wise.
The situation on the map does not look that bad but if you can not get more than one combat round every other turn things are going to get sour indeed :dead: .
Anyway, remember you are fighting mere soviet hordes and that the German Wehrmacht will prevail!;)

[viridomaros]

i'm using the attack planning box which only shows one gold square, but it seems it deosn't work or i don't know what's happening, i can assure you that the situation is really bad, because it is how i feel and since your feeling is more important than the true situation, i'm in a bad position ( that might seem a bit unclear i hope you can understand)

[nemo]

Defeat is ensured when the enemy has broken our will to fight - and yours is not! (Fuehrerbefehl ;)).

I am at my wits end concerning the early end of turn affecting you. Maybe you should try attacking during the first combat round only with high proficiency units (typically the German ones) and delay attacks with lower proficiency units for eventual later rounds? On the other hand, I remember reading here (or at TDG?) that attacking with very high proficiency units can lead to early end of turns because these units tend to keep attacking for ever and ever, thus consuming the whole turn :hmmm: Some veteran advice could be useful here...
Did you consider running the toawlog switch to have a record of what is effectively going on during the turn? It could provide you with some clues. What I do not know is whether this option is considered gamey or not during PBEM play...

[viridomaros]

do you mean the combat repport, yes i'm using it

[nemo]

Not exactly the combat report but the log function (http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6343) which gives you a highly detailed view of the game mechanism at work. I did not try it during the hotseat of Wintergewitter but it may provide you with the information you need, i.e. the reason behind these early turn ends.
Well, at least I hope so :cool:

My two (euro)cents

[Bruce]

The thing that used to catch me on attack planning was artillery. I set up a nice attack and check the attack planning dialogue, and then I'd spot an artillery unit nearby not doing anything which I'd roll up and throw into the attack too. Unfortunately, in direct fire if the artillery has moved it uses up your combat rounds.

This applies with straight bomardments too - if the artillery moves have its move you loose half a turn plus one, two or three combat phases (depending on the loss tolerance).

Watch the loss setting of bombarding air units - units on ignore losses will consume three rounds per attack.

Our units are generally high proficiency - they won't tend to break off attacks early. You should be using limited losses attacks rather than ignore losses. You can use minimise losses attacks for supply drain. It is worth doing some supply drain attacks on fortified/green Soviet units,as they can take a bit of shifting otherwise (NB: everything in this paragraph comes into the 'minor' category, the most likely reason for early turn ends is mistakes with artillery)

[viridomaros]

Not exactly the combat report but the log function (http://www.warfarehq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6343) which gives you a highly detailed view of the game mechanism at work. I did not try it during the hotseat of Wintergewitter but it may provide you with the information you need, i.e. the reason behind these early turn ends.
Well, at least I hope so :cool:

My two (euro)cents
i did what jamiam suggested the command was accepted but i don't see any changement to the game, could you tell me exactly what changes when you use the toaw log?

[nemo]

There are no changes to the game itself and the way combat rounds and turns are resolved, but you will find a toawlog.txt file in your toaw-cw folder (C:\Program Files\Talonsoft\TOAW-CW if you have chosen the default installation path) which is choke full of information concerning the last played turn. Every single combat is detailed in the file, along with the minutiae of combat resolution.

Basically, the file gathers in a more or less readable form what the game is doing when you hit the 'end turn' button.

[viridomaros]

y a moyen d'avoir plus clair que ca ou c'est normal?

[nemo]

Ouvre le fichier avec le Wordpad au lieu du bloc-notes, les sauts de lignes seront pris en compte et le fichier plus lisible ;). Laisse de côté les chargement de bitmaps au début et va voir vers la fin du fichier les derniers événements de combat pour savoir s'il n'y a pas peut-être une de tes unités engagées qui foire sa vérification d'efficacité (proficiency check).

For the french-challenged among us (:D), the toawlog file shows much better with Wordpad than with the notepad, as line breaks are taken into account.

[MikeJ]

I guess all I could say is never attack a fortified or entrenched unit (unless its *REALLY* weak.. major emphasis on the really) with ignore losses. Dig out before you attack hard. If you're losing more than 2 rounds in a combat on a regular basis, ease up on your loss tolerances.

Be careful of armor as well... weak armor can look like an easy battle, but it can really drain a turn.

Also, if you have an enemy unit or stack of units totallly surrounded (1 hex pocket), do not attack with everything surrounding it. That's a sure fire way to lose rounds. Instead, just hit it from 2 sides with a min loss attack. You want to ensure that what you attack with will break off quickly, so don't attack with anything massively stronger than what you're attacking.

It's counter-intuitive, but if you attack from all sides you'll probably burn 4-5 combat rounds.

[Furocity]

MikeJ makes a good point here, I lost a PZ BN because I had him on ignore, even tho the unit I was attacking was RED on supplies, but he was fortified. Not sure if units adjacent have an effect, for there was an AT unit adjacent to the one I attacked, so maybe the PZ's ran across his flank :(

[viridomaros]

Ouvre le fichier avec le Wordpad au lieu du bloc-notes, les sauts de lignes seront pris en compte et le fichier plus lisible ;). Laisse de côté les chargement de bitmaps au début et va voir vers la fin du fichier les derniers événements de combat pour savoir s'il n'y a pas peut-être une de tes unités engagées qui foire sa vérification d'efficacité (proficiency check).

For the french-challenged among us (:D), the toawlog file shows much better with Wordpad than with the notepad, as line breaks are taken into account.
merci de l'infop c'est super

[viridomaros]

i start to get nervous as i'm 5 km from 6 army
i have launched thunderclap a bit early may be but i want to rescue the 6 army and he is pushing hard north of the pocket so i decided it was time to go for the rescue, may be i made a fatal mistake but as long as i keep feeling it is possible to reach the 6 army i think it was a good decision
i remember that somewhere someone had written that toaw doesn't model psychology factor, for this scenario i start feeling the psychological factor because i feel i'm in a deseperate situation and my opponent feel the same, quite funny isn't it
here is a picture of the incoming link up with 6 army :p

[nemo]

Keep the pressure on your opponent and convince yourself he will yeld before you do. If the situation on the screen looks too grim, do not play it in a rush : save,close and take a walk for a couple of hours - it helps clear out the situation and put things into perspective. Without falling into outright propaganda, never in your mails let your worries show - as far as possible, remain matter of fact and cool, as if things were evolving along lines you devised... Not sure this will work against a seasoned veteran but it may help you feel more confident ;)

My psychological two (euro)cents...

[viridomaros]

i keep this in mind, thanks :cool:

[viridomaros]

turn 18
the situation is quite bad for axis forces but i think i found a nice strategy to avoid losing the game at least
i'm retreating behind the donetsk with all my forces, 6army have been rescued, all panzerd divisions and 6 army are going back to zimmovki then rostov, i have some problems around Kotelnikovo as a soviet army is blocking the road there, i need to crush this one fast before he can close the pocket.
have you ever heard of the shestakov pocket?? :rolleyes:
i have, this is a pocket were soviet destroyed 6army added to the panzer divisions of Manstein.
i hope i can avoid this but i'm not sure.
here are some screenshots enjoy

[MikeJ]

It's hard to see the overall situation from the screenshots, but it would probably be a good idea to start constricting your pocket so that you can free up forces for a drive out of the pocket. I hope you have supply in there, at least.

[viridomaros]

It's hard to see the overall situation from the screenshots, but it would probably be a good idea to start constricting your pocket so that you can free up forces for a drive out of the pocket. I hope you have supply in there, at least.
actually the situation is not so bad as it is showned on the screenshot and i still have supply there but not at his best, but i have to smah him rapidly in the south to be able to retreat otherwise i'm doomed for the rest of the game, honestly i think i can do it but for this i need a bit more than 2 rounds per turn ( i had 2 for the last one)

[nemo]

have you ever heard of the shestakov pocket?? :rolleyes:
i have, this is a pocket were soviet destroyed 6army added to the panzer divisions of Manstein.
i hope i can avoid this but i'm not sure.
here are some screenshots enjoyIs it 28A in the south? If so, there is no way it can form a southern shoulder to a temptative pocketing of your forces : with only a fraction of your withdrawing armoured and mechanized formations, you will just walk over it whenever you decide to. Especially if you outmaneuvre it and get to its nearest supply point near Sovetskoye (paratroopers, if still available, could come in handy here ;))
Fuehrerbefehl : cheer up and beat the russkies back!

[viridomaros]

Is it 28A in the south? If so, there is no way it can form a southern shoulder to a temptative pocketing of your forces : with only a fraction of your withdrawing armoured and mechanized formations, you will just walk over it whenever you decide to. Especially if you outmaneuvre it and get to its nearest supply point near Sovetskoye (paratroopers, if still available, could come in handy here ;))
Fuehrerbefehl : cheer up and beat the russkies back!
yes i have spotted his units and it is the 28 army indeed
no way to take his supply point as it is well guarded, i already give it a try with a cavalry unit but it is just useless.
but i feel confident in smashing his 28 army, next step will be the 44th army deployed around zimonivki and rostov but he splitted it in 3 i think it is not a good idea, i should be able to smash all of these, i will inform you of my success or failure