View Full Version : Getting off the beaches in Normandy?
KG_RangerBooBoo
21 Jan 07, 12:33
Any hints on how in the heck to get off the beaches in Normandy? On turn 5 and only cleared one hex at Omaha and one at Juno. Everyone else is right where they started. Am I that incompetent or is there some trick I'm missing?
Any hints on how in the heck to get off the beaches in Normandy? On turn 5 and only cleared one hex at Omaha and one at Juno. Everyone else is right where they started. Am I that incompetent or is there some trick I'm missing?
What scenario are you playing and what optional rules are you using? That makes a big difference.
KG_RangerBooBoo
21 Jan 07, 18:22
Playing #30, the Normandy Campaign with the default optional rules. Finally managed to get the Brits off the beaches on this last turn. Had to use countless number of assaults over 6 turns to get them there. Gained another hex at Omaha this turn which gives me two hexes with one between which I can hopefully work on getting next turn.
Playing #30, the Normandy Campaign with the default optional rules. Finally managed to get the Brits off the beaches on this last turn. Had to use countless number of assaults over 6 turns to get them there. Gained another hex at Omaha this turn which gives me two hexes with one between which I can hopefully work on getting next turn.
Do the default use rigid ZOC? What about alternate fire?
KG_RangerBooBoo
21 Jan 07, 19:18
The only optional rules checked are the alternative resolution ones.
Glenn Saunders
21 Jan 07, 22:11
The only optional rules checked are the alternative resolution ones.
Stick with the default optional rules.
...and keep in mind that not long ago there was a guy on this forum who was complaining because he thought the Quality rating of the Germans troops, particular a Infantry Div at Omaha (can't recall the number now) was incorrectly set at a C level and he felt that it should be at least a B or and A.
My concern was that should we increase that German Troop Qaulity the game would be even harder for the Allies and I figured it was hard enough as it is. I guess you agree too.
Glenn
Stick with the default optional rules.
...and keep in mind that not long ago there was a guy on this forum who was complaining because he thought the Quality rating of the Germans troops, particular a Infantry Div at Omaha (can't recall the number now) was incorrectly set at a C level and he felt that it should be at least a B or and A.
My concern was that should we increase that German Troop Qaulity the game would be even harder for the Allies and I figured it was hard enough as it is. I guess you agree too.
Glenn
352nd I believe.
some things to keep in mind. Disruption is a mission kill for either side. If you want to occupy a hex, disrupt all units in the hex but make sure you leave them a retreat path-otherwise you have to eliminate them which is harder. You do not necessarily need to assault every turn or defensive fire. Use your artillery, navy, and airforce to disrupt his units-the more your beach units fire, the more defensive fire he can do and more disruption on your units. It is definitely better to hold fire when there are more defending units-especially undisrupted ones than your firing units. Try not to fire from a hex you intend to assault from-it invites disruption of the assaulting units. It's a fine line to run. Good luck.:)
KG_RangerBooBoo
21 Jan 07, 22:36
The alternate fire/assault resolutions are what checkmark when you hit use default rules so I guess that is what is intended. I think the game is plenty hard enough with the German troop quality right where it is. Besides to rate them higher would probably make them better then what they were without fortifications.
Use your artillery, navy, and airforce to disrupt his units
This brings to mind a question I have. When you read the historical accounts of the landing one of the factors that is cited as important to the Allies succeeding in getting off the beaches, particularly Omaha, was the destroyers coming in close and plastering the German defenses with direct fire. Does this tactic work in the game and do naval units suffer range attenuation the same way a ground unit would?
Jim Wirth
The info below is from the readme file for an excellent mod to the 250 turn Campaign scenario by Pete Commons. I don't remember where I picked up the mod from. I thought that it came from the Panzer Campaigns website but I don't see it there now.
7. Tripled the hard target attack values and halved the hard target ranges for light cruisers and destroyers. DD’s and CL’s were very effective silencing beach defenses when firing over open sights in a direct fire mode. To reflect that capability I increased the firepower, but halved the range against hard targets so ships will have to close the beaches and be vulnerable to coastal defense arty. Increased morale of all naval units to B, increased firepower of battleships and heavy cruisers.
I'm sure that this will cause a lot of debate about the effectiveness of Naval Gunfire, but it was a step in the right direction.
Ed
Obviously if you increase the hard target attack values, the ships will be more effective but is the hard target attack value effected by range and how does that effect differ if firing directly or indirectly?
Jim Wirth
Since ships are indirect fire weapons there should be no range penalty, but I may have missed something in the manual. I still haven't digested all the details related to Direct vs Indirect fires, but hopefully someone will provide a better answer.
Ed
trauth116
22 Jan 07, 21:06
I have not played this for a couple of patches -but on Omaha specifically, I went after hexes that were not part of the bluff ( forgot the terrain name used in the game) - but there is a ridge line that runs most of Omaha Beach - with a couple of areas that are at the same level.
I rarely initiated fire (at least from units adjacent to defenders) - as that gave the Germans an additional fire opportunity at the landed units.
I also left my landed units as companies. I have heard that some players don't go in for that - but I felt that giving the German defenders more targets to shoot at offset any unit integrity bonuses that a combined battalion might receive.
I do have to give the landing scenarios another shot though ( not sure when that will happen -as I am stuck into a different game at the moment).
I gave some tips on how to get off of the beaches some time back. Cant remember where the post is (might even be over on the Panzer Campaigns Club forum).
Yes, it DOES and DID take quite awhile to get off of the beaches. Part of this had to do with the landings being messed up for most part and some serious opposition fire from the Germans.
What you find in the series is that if you dont NEED to fire DONT do it. Its one of my simple rules. If faced by superior firepower dont fire ... just let the Defense Fire do it for you in your move.
In this case you land with engineers clearing mines which is your first order of business. You need to clear the mines so that the follow up waves done land on them.
I usually hold back my subsequent waves (except for all infantry waves) until the mines are gone. Then I often will NOT bring on the AT guns as they seem to take a pounding.
And yes, you have to assault until you are sick of it.
Naval gun fire doesnt do anywhere as good it seems as airpower but perhaps others have had better results.
I usually look for a point to press through (usually the middle) and then just pour out into the countryside and let the follow up forces finish off the rest of the bunkers. The middle funny enough seems to be the weakest link.
I will fire with my armor or AT guns at bunkers. Minimal results but sometimes a key Disruption will result.
In the end you just need to be patient. I have found that the mines and too much firing at the enemy will result in more losses.
Last tip - combine your companies as quickly as you can into battalians. Less wear and tear on the units, you dont disrupt as easily and all of the other penalties of companies in the series.
trauth116
30 Jan 07, 18:22
In addition to Sgt Rock's post - one thing that bombardment can do is damage the pillboxes and bunkers so that their effect is halved. The difference being an undamaged bunker or pillbox in the game would be listed in all caps (e.g. BUNKER or PILLBOX) in N44 - whereas a damaged one would be listed in all lower-case.
It is much easier to get the key disruptions against damaged German fortifications.
Of course too, even if you have to continually assault, another selling point to not inviting return defensive fire in your own fire phase - is you cannot assault while disrupted.
I had not thought about the selective landings, but that seems to be good advice as well.
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This one is probably a no-brainer, at any rate the last time there was a N44 tournament -as the German player, when firing against the beaches - my first priority was to try to keep the engineer units disrupted. I guess in defense in that battle I had a target order of priority that I went with (if I was not so casual in my play, I suppose I should have applied that analysis to some of the other titles [e.g. in North Africa, you try o target the 88's, &tc...])
Another German tip; I found it generally to be a waste of time to try to blow the bridges around Carentan -as I never had enough time to do it with the engineers available there - too much pressure applied too soon.
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One of the aspects that I like best about this series is that the differing fronts play so differently ( meaning what might work in a hedgerow or landing setting ) means pretty much nothing in a blitzing setting like France or Smolensk; the unit scales are also slightly different. Otoh, I was always addicted to monster games, before I ever had any computer. N44, to me anyways, is very similar in scope to AH's Longest Day (actually I think N44 is more detailed - but you get the point).
I have the game on default settings and have no problems getting off the beaches on any of the scenarios. Obviously, some like Omaha are harder than others. The key I found was patience, and concentrate firepower to disrupt as many as the fortification occupants as you can before you carry out the assault.
Once penetration through the defenses are made, the other fortifications are attacked by surrounding them - this makes the overall attack much easier to carry off.
Just be patient and your troops will get you off the beach! :-)
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