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View Full Version : Anti-armor ambushes and acceptable losses


Chelco
29 Dec 06, 09:41
Gents,

I see a lot of enjoyment over AATF. The same here. :D

AATFs interface is way more friendly to guys with no real mil training like me. So I decided to take advantage of the backwards compatibility and here I am playing scenarios from previous releases again. Is like listening to good old songs in a brand new high tech audio system! :p
In one ATF scenario (won't tell you which one to avoid spoiling it) I command a reinforced US mech company into an urban environment. There is a big , almost 1 km wide, clear terrain spot along a portion my route of advance and the enemy has set up several AT-5s positions on the other side. They have a crystal clear field of fire over my route of approach, quite an ambush. When I advance either my Bradleys or M1s into acceptable range, the enemy kills them but remains unspotted. To deal with them I had to use dismounted infantry to attack them from the flank. That type of approach slows me to death (objective is still up the road) but actually this is not the point of this post.
My points is:
IIRC, AT-5s are wire guided and a technique used to overcome a launch was to spray suppressive fire on the operator to make him loose aim, and off course get the hell out of there. The cue for an enemy launching the missile is the smoke trail. I reckon that even if that is true, a complex urban environment will make it nearly impossible to spot anything at 1+ Km. But yet I wonder: how do you advance armored vehicles in a way that my boys (specially the ones who are targeted) get a chance to react to this anti armor ambush? I acknowledge my failure to implement either a traveling or bounding over watch (have to try that tonight). But anyway, even with traveling/bounding over watch: is the loss of some armor inevitable?

Sorry for backtracking a little to previous titles.


Julio

Pat Proctor
29 Dec 06, 15:33
If the scenario has arty or mortars, I would try smoke and suppressive HE to keep the enemy's head down. That is the prefered solution in the US Army, along with direct fire suppression.

Chelco
30 Dec 06, 16:42
Thank you Pat,
Actually the OPORD prohibits indirect lethal fires in my area of operations.
I guess I have to clear the enemy with dismounted infantry.
I will let you know.

Julio

CPangracs
31 Dec 06, 10:44
Thank you Pat,
Actually the OPORD prohibits indirect lethal fires in my area of operations.
I guess I have to clear the enemy with dismounted infantry.
I will let you know.

Julio

No reason you can't create a smoke screen between you and the town to move your forces into position.

Chelco
31 Dec 06, 11:04
Hi Curt,
The only smoke generators I have are on the vehicle themselves. I will try, though.

Julio.

CPangracs
31 Dec 06, 11:17
Hi Curt,
The only smoke generators I have are on the vehicle themselves. I will try, though.

Julio.

interesting dilemma! let us know how you solve it...:devious:

Chelco
03 Jan 07, 11:22
Happy New Year!

The problem: AT-5 dug-in positions overlooking my axis of advance. Frontal assault impossible: they are in "urban 2" type of terrain, direct route to assault them is open terrain. My OPORD prohibits the use of lethal indirect fire within the city. The enemy calls in arty at the first sight of my troops. They are vicious!

What I did: I attacked the AT-5 dug-ins from behind and flanks. In that way my troops are in "urban 2" terrain when they come under fire from these postions. What came as lessons learnt the hard way are:
(1) Dismounted infantry was not good: they would get under fire and die quickly from small arms fire. Even with a "hide on contact" SOP. They didn't last even enough to unveil the exact position of the dug-ins.
(2) Bradleys would suffer the same fate as infantry, but this time falling prey to a mortal AT-5 round. Ocassionally, a Bradley would survive the first AT-5 round. That allowed me to suppress the position and close in with another armored vehicle to ID the enemy. When the target is identified as enemy, I TRP the enemy position and they are toast!
(3) M1s provided the best results. Most of the time they were impervious to the first AT-5 round and their suppressive fire is superb. I can close in to provide identification with whatever asset I have around. When that happens, the sound of the M1 main gun is like music from heaven ...

All of this talking ...and I still don't know how to assault the main objective. :nervous:

On a serious note, I think I need a serious reading of FM3-90. I laughed my head off when I saw there the diagrams for bound overwatch: tanks lead the way before contact, off course. :(

I will provide some screenies one of these days.

I have a question regarding spoting enemy units. If your units are moving, they are less likely to spot the enemy. I usually provide my units with multiple waypoints when contact with the enemy is likely. That makes them to stop more frequently. I wonder if that's a valid way to improve their situational awareness in close terrain like urban2. (?).

Thanks,


Julio

JamesBailey
03 Jan 07, 13:01
Julio-
On your flanking movement, can you move the Bradleys w/ the dismounts? The Bradleys could serve as 'bounding overwatchers', ready to support the grunts with fire. Moving dismounts in MOUT is a darn dangerous military event and you need all the firepower you can get once you bump into even a small enemy force. Of course, you need to keep the dismounts forward enough to discover AT before the AT murders your IFVs. Tough mission no question.

Luckily, the real Iraqi artillery wasn't flexible or good enough to rapidly shot unplanned fires :)

Charlie Mike!

Chelco
04 Jan 07, 09:35
Hi James,

Are you enjoying the crazy warm weather downtown? :nuts:

I cannot manage to get my dismounts to bump into contact without getting them killed. But you made me realize that maybe I didn't order to my Bradleys a suppress fire on the suspected enemy position. I need to check that.
So many things to try!

Dismounted movement is very slow (I have a stretch of 5+ Km of urban terrain to clear, and then attack the objective), but if it is safer ...

Julio,

JamesBailey
04 Jan 07, 13:36
Very nice weather here in the District. enjoying it very much!

5 klicks of MOUT? Darn, that is a tough mission. Get BDE on the line and ask for another hvy task force, more smoke and some 250lb FLM GBUs! See attached: your munitions being loaded on the CAS right now :)

Seriously, warfare, since the first cavemen fight, has been about having the most firepower at the right spot & right time. If you are flanking a position to open an axis, its pretty clear that this flanking manuever is the decisive spot. Pin the enemy with one joint force and manuever with the other joint force. I want lots of 2-5 mike-mike and Mike-240 rounds supporting those dismounts! A liberal use of lead to solve your problem...

Continue to give us SITREPs as you solve that axis!