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CPangracs
14 Dec 06, 16:13
Just gathering intel for my next game, based on the AATF engine...
If you were to purchase a new, modern wargame with scenarios set in recent locales, but not something from today, would you also want vehicles and capabilities in the database to reflect current reality, or would you just want those things available and in use in the period reflected?
I guess I should just do a poll, eh?!
JamesBailey
14 Dec 06, 16:24
I voted. "Humanly Possible" could be pretty broadly defined :laugh:
CPangracs
14 Dec 06, 16:53
I voted. "Humanly Possible" could be pretty broadly defined :laugh:
The main issue is the length of time it's going to take create the game - there should always be a specific cutoff for adding units and pre-built ORBATS for the different unit types when building a game.
This game will likely take longer than any other I've worked on.:surprise: However, if I know I need to include things from today, it's very easy to have a good, comprehensive database and do minor additions/subtractions as I near beta testing and throughout the beta process.
Both a modern and a database of the period would be preferable. If this is for your post 9/11 project with the title that major Proctor finds a bit dubious, then the database will be pretty modern anyway, and with the modability of the engine it is quite easy lift or transpose vehicles from other databases so if you feel it could be too much work then just go for one of the period. Are you going to give us any more clues as to what you'll be covering in this post 9/11 project.
Yeah - Lets have some clues....
Pat Proctor
14 Dec 06, 18:43
Mosey (I think that is how it is spelled) on over to the Shrapnel blogs for the spilling of the beans, and some other important announcements.
Shrapnel Games Blog (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/blog/)
JamesBailey
14 Dec 06, 19:10
Mosey (I think that is how it is spelled) on over to the Shrapnel blogs for the spilling of the beans, and some other important announcements.
Shrapnel Games Blog (http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/blog/)
Operations Corba II, Crusader, Lightfoot and more! Looking forward to these new frontiers...
But more importantly, stay safe in Iraq. Thank you and all the brave US servicemen and women deployed around the world.
Glad to see the future of PROSIM looks bright.
Stay safe in Iraq...and let us know if you need any goodies sent over.
Brian
I voted for option 2, but that does have the proviso that it doesn't compromise option 1. An 'extra', if you like.
As the other guys said, stay safe, Pat.
Pat - Stay safe heading back to the box. Tell all our brothers and sisters over there they are continuing to do a hell of a job (Fk the MSM and their agenda driven news).
The world is changing for the better because of this WOT. History will be very kind to the leadership and warriors who have answered the call in this WOT/Iraq. The primary objective to remove the Taliban and Saddam from power has been met (accomplished), the secondary objective of changing the ME itself is going to be a slow and painful process.
The world is simply too small any longer to allow the ME to stay in the dark ages.
I general, I think it is more valuable to have a broader database with less detail.
A couple degrees armor slope don't change a game like ATF too much.
Modeling different periods and regions does.
What's wrong with user contributed databases?
CPangracs
15 Dec 06, 13:22
I general, I think it is more valuable to have a broader database with less detail.
A couple degrees armor slope don't change a game like ATF too much.
Modeling different periods and regions does.
What's wrong with user contributed databases?
There's nothing wrong with them, however, to get a game scenario to work with the new database, first, you have to associate the db to the scenario in the editor, then, if you don't have as a minimum the exact same vehicles in that database, there will be problems with the scenario!
It's not bad if you don't alter the db to remove vehicles and just tweak the vehicles in the db. You can add vehicles to the db as well, then you would have to add them to the chosen scenario or create a new scenario with the added units.
This is what I love about the entire series - just about every single thing but the .exe can be tweaked!
Also, you really want to move to XML as a data format if you didn't already.
It removes a whole bunch of blame-pushing between database author and programmer.
Pat Proctor
15 Dec 06, 15:28
Redwolf,
I don't think that is an option for Curt's game, as it is firmly based in the AATF Engine and must use current DB formats to be compatible with ATF Engine games. But it is definitely a good suggestion for the operational title I am working on.
Redwolf,
I don't think that is an option for Curt's game, as it is firmly based in the AATF Engine and must use current DB formats to be compatible with ATF Engine games. But it is definitely a good suggestion for the operational title I am working on.
I'm glad to hear.
The recent game "Panzer Command" is pretty much XML everything with the exception of the map and the 3D models. But unit data, unit database, scenarios, setups, all XML.
It works extremely well for them. They released the game without a scenario editor and a user wrote a functional scenario editor within three weeks. Without the developers giving any extra documentation on the contents of the XML files (for those who don't know: XML files are moderately self-documenting unless deliberately misused).
JamesBailey
15 Dec 06, 17:09
So Curt,
how many models do you think you will have to add to the existing DB? Certainly most of the models are already there - US kit is well covered, and Iraqi stuff is mostly all Russian stuff right?
CPangracs
15 Dec 06, 23:19
So Curt,
how many models do you think you will have to add to the existing DB? Certainly most of the models are already there - US kit is well covered, and Iraqi stuff is mostly all Russian stuff right?
Actually, I'm going to start with the Raging Tiger database. There are much more current vehicles, and even some future stuff. I'm picking my way through the DB now.
If I were to create something solely for the game, the enemy list would be VERY slim, so I'm going to go all-out on it as much as I can.
We'll see where I'm sitting in about 4-6 months! :devious:
CPangracs
15 Dec 06, 23:28
Also, you really want to move to XML as a data format if you didn't already.
It removes a whole bunch of blame-pushing between database author and programmer.
You have no idea how badly I wish this game were XML compatible!:mad: :angry:
But hey, I'm used to making 42 mouseclicks to delete a single vehicle piece out of the database!;)
Please tell me this will include the USMC actions.
edit
:cry: just read it again......"US ARMY march on Bagdad".......:cry:
CPangracs
16 Dec 06, 01:37
Please tell me this will include the USMC actions.
edit
:cry: just read it again......"US ARMY march on Bagdad".......:cry:
Jeez, dude...I'm only one man...:nervous:
You can always play it and PRETEND you're a Marine! :D
It sounds like a good title. You can do the 'March Up' version next.:D
Maybe it's time to write a converter program from/to ATF format and XML, once, and then edit XML forever?
CPangracs
16 Dec 06, 10:25
Maybe it's time to write a converter program from/to ATF format and XML, once, and then edit XML forever?
As long as you can convert BACK into the proper data format for ATF/AATF, I would look at it as a blessing! :D
JamesBailey
16 Dec 06, 15:56
As long as you can convert BACK into the proper data format for ATF/AATF, I would look at it as a blessing! :D
what would be the advantages of a XML program over the current AATF engine?
CPangracs
17 Dec 06, 00:46
what would be the advantages of a XML program over the current AATF engine?
If you know what is entailed in altering/building a database in ATF/AATF now, you know how hard it is - if we could use XML, we could easily add/subtract/modify and share data with each other!
I believe this would also negate the need to reassocitate each scenario with each different database - one database for everything...:smoke:
Pat Proctor
17 Dec 06, 07:03
I would just be concerned that it would make error checking a nightmare, as you would have keep changing the DB outside AATF Scenario Builder and reimport and reimport until it takes. It would turn scenario building into a proccess somewhat like programing and debugging, something I am desperately trying to avoid.
I would just be concerned that it would make error checking a nightmare, as you would have keep changing the DB outside AATF Scenario Builder and reimport and reimport until it takes. It would turn scenario building into a proccess somewhat like programing and debugging, something I am desperately trying to avoid.
Not really. Using XML gives you off-the-shelf syntax checking tools that your users can run before stuffing it into your game.
And a little XSLT does much more than just syntax checking, also outside the game and using utilities you don't have to write.
Even when you get the final result into your game, your parsing is safer, too, since you don't have to grow it up from some single-char syntax that you did some ad-hoc coding for.
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