View Full Version : Wargaming question for the console crowd
Ok I am clearly a board game wargamer, I play computer wargames that look exactly like board games too.
I don't generally regard games like Battlefield 1942, or the more intently directed towards history games like Call of Duty to be "wargames" per se (that's not justy me though, a large swath of wargaming feels that way).
My question to you of the console crowd is this. Of all that is classic looking board gaming wargaming, which is MOST likely to interest you, if at all?
These are not choices by the way, just cliche examples of the basic groupings.
Exhibit A Steel Panthers (its a free download, so not a problem to check it out)
This game uses turns, is fairly good with graphics for the needs of the game. It is WW2 at the squad level, but as the name implies, is generally also very tank like. It is not hard to play, and has a massive fan community. It's replay potential is right off the chart.
Exhibit B Combat Mission. Mostly same as Steel Panthers in most ways, but, it's a 3d game. Been around a while, you can get all three games for peanuts if you try.
Exhibit C The Operational Art of War currently termed TOAW3 on sale at Matrix Games these days.
This game so completely mimics dang near 80% or higher of every WW2 -> Post WW2 board game ever made. Heck of a good purchase for just that reason. If you have ever had the slightest interest in a long list of classic board games, TOAW gives you really the same feel.
It is not squad tactical, but also not grand strategy (somewhere in between). It is a more serious game though, and requires a serious level of interest.
Exhibit D Conquest of the Agean (second of a type of design). This game uses real time, which will likely draw in the younger crowd that enjoys that more readily. The command and control in this game though will beat you up if you use frantic ill thought out choices for your units. Mouse speed won't help you here.
The game is a lower level of operational scale. Not as complex as TOAW3 to run though.
The game is also widely thought of by some (well me at least) to be among the best in game design concepts in wargaming today.
The graphics are not excessive though, it uses what is needed, and leaves it at that. No cute animations when they would serve no function.
Strategic Command (1 or 2). This game is light on interface complexity, heavy on fun, rewards careful gaming and is easy to play in general. It's grand strategy. You need to fight the war (its WW2 in Europe), but also manage politics, and also manage research and proper production choices.
It's turn based, and uses counters in the first version, more elaborate images in the second.
The game is not a monster that can't be played in a day as well.
The above were just examples of "types" of classic wargame. There is in most cases many examples of the types I mentioned above.
I would like to hear what you might think of those over the next while.
Well none of them really "shone" out towards me however the Steel Panthers does sound kinda good, simply because its free, do you have a link that i can have a look at it please?
i might have a game with you sometime Aries :D (I will whoop yo ass!)
Try COD3 one of the best "war games" i have played and i think u should re consider the facts that they are war games lol.
Call of duty is actually based on events that happened so it is in effect a War_game
I know that COD2 Big Red One was loosely based on some real places, is COD3 the same? I haven't found the COD games to be as good as the Brothers in Arms, unfortunately they don't play on the XBOX 360.
I know that COD2 Big Red One was loosely based on some real places, is COD3 the same? I haven't found the COD games to be as good as the Brothers in Arms, unfortunately they don't play on the XBOX 360.
In comparisome, even the first CoD was better than Brothers in Arms, all the story line of CoD is about how each of the Allies (USA, Britain and Russia) have to fight against the Germans using actual battles, however the scenery is totally innacurate.
COD3 and COD2 are both on the 360, dont know what you mean by that last point though :confused: please rephrase
Brothers in Arms won't play on the 360. And as for COD being better to each his own. I like BIA because you had to use valid fire and move tactics. If you didn't supress the Germans you were going to get shot. Playing it at the highest difficulty was also good, as it was pretty much one-shot one-kill, no getting hit multiple times and still being good to go.
Brothers in Arms won't play on the 360. And as for COD being better to each his own. I like BIA because you had to use valid fire and move tactics. If you didn't supress the Germans you were going to get shot. Playing it at the highest difficulty was also good, as it was pretty much one-shot one-kill, no getting hit multiple times and still being good to go.
Yea i find that one of the fallbacks from FPS these days, you can run up to someone with a machine gun and lay out a whole magazine on them, yet they dont die? It is ridiculous, and another thing is the sniper rifles on some games are underpowered, on BF2 I shot someone in the head 3 times but they didnt die, its a big fault in FPS these days.
I havent played BIA personally but i have several friends who have both BIA and COD and have commented on the two and given me their opinions
That is why I hate a lot of the first person shooters. Nothing like Superman fighting for the Allies. The Ghost Recon games are a little better, but even those aren't great, you sometimes have to shoot someone 2-3 times to drop them.
That is why I hate a lot of the first person shooters. Nothing like Superman fighting for the Allies. The Ghost Recon games are a little better, but even those aren't great, you sometimes have to shoot someone 2-3 times to drop them.
hehe, it does sometimes seem that you are superman on the single player of the Original CoD, you get a sniper rifle, and the scope doesnt wobble at all, its amazing, so your running round this town, see a guy, scope up, bam! He's dead in all of 2 seconds, and they are normally just in front of me with a machine gun! its ridiculous
fun though :laugh:
I have a friend that is a real demon with FPS designs. Thus I generally have seen most. Well he's been out of town a year, so I am falling behind on what I have watched at his place.
But while the graphics are impressive, they are all just a dude or perhaps a few dudes running around shooting up the place.
The second that you see people doing the bunny hop though, it completely assassinates my capacity to look at them as anything other than an arcade game.
Not a slam, they all look fun enough, the hopping just looks silly.
Here's some links for you guys (sheesh I had thought you guys could at least google if need be :)).
Steel Panthers WaW (Matrix Games)
Matrix Games - Steel Panthers: World at War - Generals Edition - Downloads (http://www.matrixgames.com/games/downloads.asp?gid=297)
You "buy" the general's edition, you get the "core" as a free download though.
Steel Panthers WaW also has a seas of downloads you can find at SPWaW Depot SP:WaW Depot - Main Menu (http://www.spwaw.com/) Or Wargamer.com in their downloads section.
Win Steel Panthers World War 2 from SP Camo (yes it IS different in someways)
winSPWW2 - Overview (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/SPCamo/wSPWW2/1.htm)
Again, you CAN buy the cd, but the core game is free.
Win Steel Panthers Modern Battle Tank from same people, and their version of the older SP2
winSPMBT - Overview (http://www.shrapnelgames.com/SPCamo/wSPMBT/1.htm)
Shrapnel Games also has numerous other demos to look at.
Battles in Normandy (from Matrix Games and SSG) has a demo file I recommend looking at (it's free so won't hurt hehe).
Matrix Games - Battles In Normandy - Downloads (http://www.matrixgames.com/games/downloads.asp?gid=281)
Grary Grigsbys World at War (from Matrix Games and 2by3) has a demo file I recommend looking at (same reason hehe).
Matrix Games - Gary Grigsby's World At War - Downloads (http://www.matrixgames.com/games/downloads.asp?gid=295)
But the recent release version Grary Grigsbys World at War A World Divided is the product you would want to buy (it's just the improved version really).
Conquest of the Agean (Matrix Games and Panther games) has a video file that does a good job of demonstrating this superb game.
Matrix Games - Conquest of the Aegean - Downloads (http://www.matrixgames.com/games/downloads.asp?gid=313)
Once upon a time there was a demo file for The Operational Art of War. it was the earliest version of the game. It's likely possible to google for it. It will look basically like the current game, it just wont have 9 years worth of evolving and improving built it, but it would look the same to a casual observer to some extent.
Tin Soldiers (from Matrix Games and Kios Works) has a demo file too.
This game is essentially a computer version of table top miniatures.
Matrix Games - Tin Soldiers: Alexander the Great - Downloads (http://www.matrixgames.com/games/downloads.asp?gid=298)
Battlefront has all their demos on one page.
Battlefront.com (http://www.battlefront.com/index.htm)
You can get SC and SC2 demos here for Strategic Command.
Combat Mission demos for the three games as well.
They also have several other demos worth the effort as well.
Welcome to HPS Simulations, the Wargamer's True Ally (http://www.hpssims.com/)
That's the home page of HPS who make Panzer Campaigns and Squad Battles. Alas no demos. But the games have a lot of fans here.
VASSAL Engine Web Site (http://www.vassalengine.org/community/index.php?option=com_vassal_modules&task=displayAll&Itemid=30)
That's VASSAL's home page, where you can get an idea what all this "playing board games on a computer is all about.
I should mention in closing, I routinely in the past was known for shipping in the mail a cd (it needs a dvd now) chocked FULL of Steel Panthers files in addition to likely every demo file you can stomache :)
I have always never asked for more than the airmail cost be covered by the person requesting. This is basically a flat cost of 5 bucks Canadian. Covers the cost of the dvd blank, the airmail envelope and the cost to send airmail.
I've lost count of how many I have mailed, and have shipped to nearly all corners of the globe :)
Feel free to ask me more about that.
And yes, the contents are 100% legit, no questionable legality or interpretation of international law hehe
TacOps is also worth checking out. Has a demo. Very simple yet very powerful. Demo available.
TacOps 4: Overview (http://www.battlefront.com/products/tacops4/tacops4.html)
I like it better than most 2D wargames because it uses no stupid icons (cannot remember non-text icons) and is very efficient, not too much clickeritis.
Call of duty is actually based on events that happened so it is in effect a War_game
Personally, I would call FPS's "games of war" instead of "wargames".
yeah i def don't think FPS should fall into the "wargame" category... no matter how heavy on the war theme they are...
For a 'real' wargame on the XBox, check out Dai Senryaku VII (http://reviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/878/Dai-Senryaku-VII-Modern-Military-Tactics/p1/)
I've played this through to the end, and for $30 (new!) it's exceptional. Comes with a campaign that is 26 or so maps, and has somewhere around 50 - 100 (!) maps for solo/multiplayer, and a map editor.
Pity about the name, doesn't scream out "wargame" to english speaking eyes.
But the screenies were very impressive.
trauth116
11 Dec 06, 16:17
Interesting thread in that in my experience the terminology is also a generational thing that some younger guys (in the cases relating to me) became quite touchy over my definition of a wargame.
Wargames as I know them were always a class of boardgames (mainly because almost no one had access to any computers back then) - and the term always stuck with me- mainly to differentiate stuff like SPI from Parker Brothers.
I sorta first became aware of this when I was involved in an mmpog when I was the first point of contact for guys wanting to join the group I was in. It was a fairly successful group (I only mention it - in that I recognize there are also groups that call themselves the same sort of thing that are basically 4 or 5 guys who all knew each other beforehand - the one I was in had about 80 guys at one time - no idea now, as I lost interest some years back). At any rate, the point is that a lot of the younger guys had no idea- when I asked them a question that I thought was pretty straight forward - about "...any experience with wargames?" - I'd get answers like Stratego, Risk, etc- when I was meaning more like stuff like Squad Leader (or ASL - tactical level stuff); I was going for a familiarity with relative vehicle types- in my line of questioning -that turned out to be meaningless ( it was that meaninglessness from a tactical wargaming standpoint -in a broader scope that caused me to loose all interest in this particular game, eventually).
FF a few years, and the same sort of thing came up, and a fellow guy on a staff which I was also on - really took offense to my terminology; I mean clearly I did not mean to impugn this guy's type of gaming - but only to point out that the experiences in games such as ASL ( for me SL - but same basic idea in terms of what I was relating) than CoD, or MoH, et al.
My point in writing this is to point out that there can be differences in communication with this sort of thing, and that this can be a sensitive subject for some people.
I agree with the differences, but I don't think it's a matter of age - it's a matter of interest. To a Grognard (If you know what that means, you likely are one), a wargame has to be something like The Operational Art of War, Panzer Campaigns, The Russian Campaign, etc.
To non-Grogs, any game that has a decent amount of 'war' content, is thus a 'war'-game. Only those that are hardcore (Grognards) will differentiate.
For a good example of this type of thinking, I'm reminded of a recent conversation with my brother. I like Rock music (among many other types), and we were discussing some bands, songs, etc. I told him some things I liked, and he told me that it wasn't 'Rock', it was (insert some crazy thing I've never heard of or know what it means, like Ska, etc etc etc). To me, who just happens to listen to music, and know what it is that I like, it's all rock. Sure, there's soft, hard, and classic rock, but that's all I know. But no, to my brother, who is a musician, songwriter, etc - there's five million categories and it's blasphemous to not know them, or get them wrong.
Same deal with wargaming.
(I cringe when I ask someone if they play wargames, and they go on to tell me of their most recent Command and Conquer/FPS/RTS style game... :laugh: )
It's all perception!
Actually that's funny, because the other day I was having a similar conversation with a friend about music.
He was commenting on the various forms of techno ( I think it was techno).
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