Designer questions

[Panzerpelle]

Hi all gamers.
It has been very fun to read you comments and plans for the scenario. Its truly awsome to see so much thoughts on how to play the scenario. I thought it could be a good idea to start this thread for specific designer/house rules/misc. Quastions directed to me. I will do the same for the other side. I wish you all a good and fun game...

Regards

Pelle

[Heinz57]

Greetings Pelle,

I think this is an awesome scenario, among the very best IMO. If you are taking suggestions:

1. Perhaps pull back 2nd Gds deployment in South/Center by 10 km and distribute overstacked hexes.
2. The same might extend to 1st Gds Mech Corps.
3. Formations that are pending activation should be allowed to activate earlier if attacked.
4. Soviet Air Force seems very shy and much weaker than historical - Axis had open fields and were lighting fires under engines to get their planes in the air; Red Air had warm hangars. Seems universal that the opening has virtual the entire Red Air Force in reorg, not sure when that improves.

Thank you for an excellent scenario and for the work you put into it!

Heinz57

[Panzerpelle]

Greetings Pelle,

I think this is an awesome scenario, among the very best IMO. If you are taking suggestions:

1. Perhaps pull back 2nd Gds deployment in South/Center by 10 km and distribute overstacked hexes.
2. The same might extend to 1st Gds Mech Corps.
3. Formations that are pending activation should be allowed to activate earlier if attacked.
4. Soviet Air Force seems very shy and much weaker than historical - Axis had open fields and were lighting fires under engines to get their planes in the air; Red Air had warm hangars. Seems universal that the opening has virtual the entire Red Air Force in reorg, not sure when that improves.

Thank you for an excellent scenario and for the work you put into it!

Heinz57

Thanks!
I will have a look over and implement your ideas in upcoming versions...

[Heinz57]

A quick question for anyone who can answer it...

How many times can the the Brandenberg Commandoes be air dropped?
My opponent hasn't yet, but appears like he will try. I know it can be divided into three, but have a confirmation he's dropped the full unit once, and railed it back to the airfield, so wondering a bit about this. Will probably test this myself...

[Heinz57]

Seems this Brandenberger can make multiple airdrops if it survives...just ran a test. Might be a little problem.

[jlbetin]

Seems this Brandenberger can make multiple airdrops if it survives...just ran a test. Might be a little problem.
When I played the tournament "market garden", all airbornes units could do "air moves" as soon as they were in an airport hex, even after been airdropped one turn before

Der WanderPlayer

[Heinz57]

I think too many different honor rules are finally getting to me, i.e. DNO and Braunschweig where airborne units can only make one drop behind enemy lines. Will see how he uses it this time, last time wasn't particularly effective, and trying to cut supply with one unit, even divided into three would be extraordinary, maybe to get a flank attack...who knows, Axis operations have been baffling thus far.

[Southern Dandy]

Brandenbergers can drop, redrop, and drop some more. I'm not sure just how true to history this is- I know large scale airdrops took weeks, if not months of planning to pull off with any success. Smaller scale ones, I'm not familiar with....feel free to educate me!

I'm beginning to drive Foggy crazy with my Brandenbergers in our playtest game. Drop them on or near a supply point, then blow a bridge or two, overrun an airfield. Next turn, load up from that just overran airfield, and repeat the process else somewhere behind his lines! Fun for me, aggravating for him (though he mentioned that gamey tactics would be fine before I started doing this, though I don't think he realized just what sort of silliness I had in mind!).

Since Pelle is after comments and thoughts, I'll reiterate that the Brandenbergers should be withdrawn. Turn 10, maybe? I'm not sure how long they were in the theater historically, but I'm guessing that there's a reference out there somewhere with that information.

I agree that the Soviet airforce needs some help. I got so lucky with my opponent's early turn ending and I took as much advantage of that as I could, and I may actually be able to control the skies as a result....we'll see though.

I've already mentioned the overstacking around the pocket, and been acknowledged....so, thanks!

I'm going out on a limb here...I'm of the opinion that LVII PzK is too strong. Not by a lot mind you, but historically, the terrain, weather, fierce Soviet resistance, and Little Saturn killed the relief attempt, with the Axis high point their effort to breakout of a bridgehead across the Myshkova River.

In my playtest game as Axis, and in many of the games in the mini-tourney, it seems like the Axis player is able to do no wrong with LVII PzK. I'm not sure if the terrain can be toughened up more (are the "snowy" locations generated by the game engine or set in the editor when making the map? Great way to slow down the Axis off the roads!), or if a slight (5%?) hit in proficiency would be enough to make the relief effort more chancy that it seems to be thus far.

I may yet change my mind on this, but that's my impression right now....

Anyhow, Pelle....we appreciate all the hard work you've done with this scenario. :love: :love: :love: I personally appreciate the fact that you're willing to look into these concerns and try to get this gem tweaked so both sides can win or lose on their own merits, not because it's "pre-ordained," like other scenarios (Market Garden 44 comes to mind!).

[Panzerpelle]

Good comments...I will think them over and come back...some of it I have already implemented in the next version...

[jlbetin]

Anyhow, Pelle....we appreciate all the hard work you've done with this scenario. :love: :love: :love: I personally appreciate the fact that you're willing to look into these concerns and try to get this gem tweaked so both sides can win or lose on their own merits, not because it's "pre-ordained," like other scenarios (Market Garden 44 comes to mind!).
Why do you think of Market Garden John. :surprise:
I don't understand your quote :D

Der WanderMonty

[Southern Dandy]

I suspect I'm picking on Market Garden because the only way the German player has a prayer in that one is if the Allied player drops out of the game! ;)

I stomped my German opponent pretty well in the second round of the tourney as Allies....but I'm still recovering mentally from the beating I took from the other side.

Der Wander-got-stomped-into-oblivion-and-beyond-by-JL :cheeky:

[Panzerpelle]

Hi all players!
I am back after a truly wonderful week in Athens... :cool: The greecs need more MPs for trafic controll...

I will try to read all posts but if there are questions needing my attention pls post them here so I dont miss them...

Just an observation...will these forums be public after the tourney is over?...there are som great AARs going on here...!

[CyberRanger]

Hi all players!...Just an observation...will these forums be public after the tourney is over?...there are som great AARs going on here...!Welcome back! I'm glad you had a wonderful time in Greece. I spent a few days in Athens and a week on one of the islands in 1987. Great times!

I believe these forums will be made public after the tournament. I can't see any reason not to do so!

[CyberRanger]

Does being a distant supply point (distance+1) give Gumrak magical defensive capabilities? I swear the entire weight of the Don Front can barely touch units in that hex. Or is the combination of urban ruin and entrenchment all that's to it?

[Panzerpelle]

Does being a distant supply point (distance+1) give Gumrak magical defensive capabilities? I swear the entire weight of the Don Front can barely touch units in that hex. Or is the combination of urban ruin and entrenchment all that's to it?
YES...Teh distant hex prohibits ranged arty fire in the hex...A drawback I know..but this is the only way to reduce the output of the supply from the hex...BTW this is the way I will protect the airfields around the pocket from german artyfire in the next version...

[CyberRanger]

YES...Teh distant hex prohibits ranged arty fire in the hex...A drawback I know..but this is the only way to reduce the output of the supply from the hex...300 Soviet rifle squads are mourned! Man ... so all that artillery I poured on the hex was wasted. Okay, I understand why you did it that way. You may want to note that effect in the briefing. :cry:

[laszlo.nemedi]

Actually I could kill the unit at Gumrak with Limited Attack/ Minimal loss using arty, but surely was a hard fight...

[plutonico]

i think that it´s very funny, with a lot of chances for each side and almost-historical at least no sciencie fiction at all. But one thing, i think that some advices are true, like overstacking and other things. But if you work in do the scenary 100% historical i think that will be worse. The history says, some new books are coincidents, that axis dont have chance. With the italian and rumanian in the north almost without heavy weapons, the soviet armor divisions can run, in fact they did, towards south in very few days. Almost nobody of the tournament have reach the objetives in the time that they were captured for soviet in 1942-3. By this my opinion is that scenary now is balanced, with chance for everybody, with some options of strategical at begining. Finishing, i like your scenary very much, i have afraid that going to a strict historical scenary the enterteiment will decrease.
(the option of branderberger are funny and don´t disturbed the final results).
plutonico (what a long text¡¡¡) :) :devil: :hush: :alien:

[Panzerpelle]

Thanks alot for your kind words...

[Heinz57]

I'd echo Plutonico and others -- a great scenario. Having played Braunschweig several times, in it there's substantial potential for variation of outcomes. It can produce some very interesting dispositions by the time winter hits, but usually not the historical situation faced by the Axis in late November, early December. The effort to avoid historical mistakes either precludes some situations from developing, or hastens things along.

A clearly defined Sixth Army trapped in Stalingrad, relatively weak north and south flanks, coupled with the deployment options for both 2nd Guards and 57th PzK, and the other TO's, as evident with your scenario really, really captures the essence of this operation.

I'm still on T10, but even at this point, regardless of outcome, it is definitely an exceptional scenario. It's balanced, subject to strategies of the player. Let it ride a bit to see how the overall outcomes of the tournament are before adjusting it too much.

[Panzerpelle]

I'd echo Plutonico and others -- a great scenario. Having played Braunschweig several times, in it there's substantial potential for variation of outcomes. It can produce some very interesting dispositions by the time winter hits, but usually not the historical situation faced by the Axis in late November, early December. The effort to avoid historical mistakes either precludes some situations from developing, or hastens things along.

A clearly defined Sixth Army trapped in Stalingrad, relatively weak north and south flanks, coupled with the deployment options for both 2nd Guards and 57th PzK, and the other TO's, as evident with your scenario really, really captures the essence of this operation.

I'm still on T10, but even at this point, regardless of outcome, it is definitely an exceptional scenario. It's balanced, subject to strategies of the player. Let it ride a bit to see how the overall outcomes of the tournament are before adjusting it too much.
Thanks again and i hope that the version that will be out during the summer meats all exceptions...This tourney has given me the opportunity to really playtest the scenario..so in essance your have all contributed the the final out come...

[CyberRanger]

Thanks alot for your kind words...
They are well deserved! Thank you, Pelle!