View Full Version : JL BETIN against Gambit
Bonjour,
With the agreement of WP, I accept the chalenge of Gambit and took 3 TO.
It seems at 1st look that Gambit is quite green in TOAW, I don't think I'm a master but I'm no more a newbie.
Don't laugh Laszlo please, I know the trashing you are putting me in Bastogne.
So I want to be agressive :confused:
My TO choice is difficult, is keeping Little Saturn usefull ?? where to put 2nd Guard etc...
I propose to your analysis the following choice
No Little Saturn
Use Don reinforcements
Use Don Units Elsewhere
Put 2nd Guard center
I wait for your comments, I think Gambit will send his turn Tonight or tomorow
Der WanderGoOnFight
laszlo.nemedi
23 Mar 04, 08:27
Until when you can send me the Bastogne turn :p
Until when you can send me the Bastogne turn :p
One hour ago !!!:devil:
Der WanderPosted
laszlo.nemedi
23 Mar 04, 09:53
One hour ago !!!:devil:
Der WanderPosted
Confirmed! :D
Confirmed! :DAny comments about TO choices ???
Thxs
Der WanderPerplexed:crosseye:
laszlo.nemedi
23 Mar 04, 10:26
It seems almost all of us used that number of TOs.
Fewer TO would go to "win quick or loose", but 3 TOs means starting maybe weaker, but has a chance to survive and win at the end, but you have to survive the first attacks...
I propose to your analysis the following choice
No Little Saturn
Use Don reinforcements
Use Don Units Elsewhere
Put 2nd Guard center
Depends on your overall strategy and how much confidence you put in shock levels of 105, 110, 105, 101.
A 2nd Gds Center might risk exposure to the same kind of attack MikeJ has initiated vs. GunnerC. If it manages to stay clear, however, you have a good defensive situation (most likely) at the expense of some offensive cooperation between Gds Armies.
Don Reinforcements and Don outside the pocket provides flexibility. Don front should be more than up to the job of handling the pocket -- though after T2-3 if your opponent is the least bit offensively minded, you may have a much slimmer and thinner Don. Still...flexibility is good.
Depends on your overall strategy and how much confidence you put in shock levels of 105, 110, 105, 101.
A 2nd Gds Center might risk exposure to the same kind of attack MikeJ has initiated vs. GunnerC. If it manages to stay clear, however, you have a good defensive situation (most likely) at the expense of some offensive cooperation between Gds Armies.
Don Reinforcements and Don outside the pocket provides flexibility. Don front should be more than up to the job of handling the pocket -- though after T2-3 if your opponent is the least bit offensively minded, you may have a much slimmer and thinner Don. Still...flexibility is good.
I hope to hold on Center, destroy pocketed 6th Army units and return remants Soviets to main front and attack
In name of Great Soviet Union People and our Great Leader tovarich Staline, honor to Lenin and our great Party the PCUS
Hourah komsomols Hurah workers of CCCP
Der WanderKomradGeneral
Looking at all your comments, I decide the following
Little Saturn OK
Don Elsewhere OK
2nd Guard south
Alea Jacta Est
Der WanderCaesar
Hi Friends,
I just receive my 2nd turn from Gambit, thing seems not going so bad (for me)
My air units are all under reorganisation ( more or less)
As for you the south option seems the one he has selected
I think I was right to put the 2nd Tanks south, thanks to Laszlo.
As I'm at job and I need time to work on this turn, your comments are welcome.
At 1st look I've 2 options
Attack on Center at the root of it Breakthrough to make him affraid and oblige his reinforcements to go somewhere else as the south front line ???.
Do nothing on center try to create a defense line and on south use the entrench hexes with the 2 Tk, and make lot of attacks on the weakest points of the Kessel 80,22 74,25 82,29
Comments are welcome
Der WanderPolitikComissar
laszlo.nemedi
30 Mar 04, 05:39
Looks good!
He has some initial shock, so I think better to dig in (ignore loss), and wait for the 4th or 5th turn. 2nd tank can go to stop the dvance at the central...
Dear Komrad Komissar Nikita Kroutchev,
The things are going on
Looking at the replay of the German facists move I was abble to determine his tactical choices
- 57pz Centre (they try to join the kessel)
- Early realese of 1st Panzer Army ( units can be seen south)
- Early release of 19 panzer division ( saw train boarded units move near Svatovo)
NORTH FRONT
-------------
Looking at the strategical map, I decided to engage a resolute aggressive action against the Italian Facist units in the North and I liberated there some part of ou beloved motherland.
In centre north front all our units are on hold, fortified in ignore loss state. Waiting order of Komrad Staline to launch the Little Saturn attack.
SOUTH FRONT
-------------
According to the latest directives of the Central Comitee of the Party leaded by the great Komrad Staline, I decided too, to act in an agressive way in south with the help of the 2 Guard army units. I try to destroy the first line of the Rumanian, Hitlerist fiend, who are helped by the 17 pz. Why? because I don't expect arrival of 1 Panzer until turn 4, doing so it will probably oblige the Facist to behave in a more defensive way.
I was abble to cross the river and saw no opposition there; 3 Tanks brigades are ready to run in the gap. I repulsed too a Rumanian facist division.
In the north of the bulge some resolute counter attacks could open a breakthrough in next turn, Wait and see as told our British Capitalist allies.
THE KESSEL
-----------
The replay shown a lot of agressive attack against our troops who repulsed bravely the Facist. It prooves that the Opponent General is well directed by some mercenary Canadian specialist at the OKH.
Instead of holding as capitalist cowards our great mighty soldiers proud of the party resolution did a lor of counter attacks an gain some part of our occupied mother land.
CONCLUSION
*********
Beloved Komrad Komissar, following the directive of the Party, aimed by the thought of Komrad Staline and the Marxist Leninst teaching, the DOn Front is all aimed to the Victory bt constant atacks against the Fascist.
Glory the great USSR, Respect to the Central Comite.
Hourah for people of Soviet Union.
Hoorrah for our little Father the great Komrad Stalin
Der WanderKomradGeneralInChief
Find here enclose the 2 sav files of the turn 2 before and after attacks
No bla bla
Very Bad situation with the kessel, many units and arty attacks.
The soviet south kessel front nearby destroyed
Berck Berck Berck
Any comments
Der WanderBadlyAstonished
Consider other alternatives to this first. My comments/suggestions are in part based upon your current situation and a relatively consistent trend in the Axis strategy to steal initiative away from the Soviets with what is in my estimation is an actively offensive, strong center.
1. If/When the situation permits, engage in an incremental withdrawal of your South Don Front E/SE to establish a line leading S/SW from Gavrilovka to the vicinity of your offensive near Creminchaya. Defend W of the primary road/rail line. Apply what engineers you can to rebuilding the rail line from 83,32's Supply Point. This defense would involve a frontage of 70 km vs. a current frontage of roughly 120 km which current conditions demonstrate cannot be securely maintained. Augment South Don with elements most likely from 51A, 13 Mech, or whatever else you can pull together, suffice that if the flanks extending to your offensive are secure, your offensive should be secure as well. Do this in increments, to the extent possible, defending 1 hex behind your units in reorg/rout to give them a chance of retreating to "safer" positions. Getting the Axis to "follow" is essentially a time trap...the more they work your units not engaged in offensive activity, the less they have to work your units pushing toward the other objectives. This strategy probably concedes the city of Stalingrad, unless you can maintain consistent ongoing pressure from N, E and W of the pocket.
2. Group your colors and formation cooperation levels together, particularly with respect to 2nd Gds and the Green on Tan of SW Front. Alternative to this might be doing Red-Green-Red-Green to insure that you can always have cooperative units in flanking positions when you need them. This can also offset one or the other going into reorg.
3. Consider bringing up your AA units to assist your defensive lines. Brandenberg unit may be a pain in the ass, but it would be hard pressed to cut off supply from all of our 16 supply points. They help minimally as flak against Axis Air, but fortified in the presence of something else and they can help absorb casualties and inflict some in the process.
Good Luck!
Situation at end of turn 3.
brrrrr frightening
I'm waiting for Little Staturn
Der WanderScreamed:eek:
Southern Dandy
12 Apr 04, 08:49
Jean-Luc:
I looked over your .SAL last Friday. Am just now getting a chance to comment though.....
I'm don't think your situation is as grim as you think it is, and here's why-
He's already reacting to your actions! In otherwords, he has conceded the initiative to you, which will make things very difficult for him.
Your southern deployment of 2nd Guards, while it has allowed him to keep his forces centrally located, has given him all sorts of headaches already.
For example, he's diverted at least one PzD from the LVII PzK's relief effort to slowing/stopping 2nd Guards. Another PzD from another PzK (48th, I think) is also working to prevent you from pushihng a bridgehead across the Don. 16th Mot Div is coming in to try and rescue the Rumanians in the south.
And it's just going to get worse for him, when your formations in the north all activate on turn 4 and you can start really punishing the Italian 8th Army and further dilute his strength.
If he links with the kessel, and that's not a sure thing based on what I saw, it won't be a strong, nor a lengthy one. It seems our Axis friends are pushing towards the west and southwest borders of the pocket (I've seen this in my game, and at least 2 or 3 others)...and they all want that bridge at Kalach, it seems.
I haven't destroyed that bridge in my game yet, but am now strongly considering it, since it'll force him to hold an engineering unit in place and perhaps prove to be the weakest point of the relief effort....an easy way to trap the rescuers, so to speak.
I'm not saying that you should destroy that bridge either...but I think it deserves some consideration on your part, especially if you think he'll break through.
Hang in there...you have Little Saturn yet to take advantage of, and I've seen firsthand (okay, I've been on the receiving end) what you can do with any sort of little advantage! :confused: :cry:
John
Hi Friends
here is situation at begining of Turn 4,
I will launch little saturn this turn
Here is the sal file at the begining of the turn, your comments are welcome.
What I think to do, is to pursue the north attack.
South looks more than better IMHO,
Center I continue the counter attacks.
I'm pretty sure now to keep the kernel closed or away for relief, Am I presumptuous ??
All your comments are welcome
Jean-Luc
laszlo.nemedi
13 Apr 04, 14:53
Hi Friends
here is situation at begining of Turn 4,
I will launch little saturn this turn
Here is the sal file at the begining of the turn, your comments are welcome.
What I think to do, is to pursue the north attack.
South looks more than better IMHO,
Center I continue the counter attacks.
I'm pretty sure now to keep the kernel closed or away for relief, Am I presumptuous ??
All your comments are welcome
Jean-Luc
North seems OK you can push him a little bit there,
south seems OK, first I did not like that forward element in the back of the enemy, but it seems the south front collapsing so you can use that unit. If you push a unit in the back of the enemy, and you think he will surround it, it is better to divide, because more units needed to surround it...
Main concern on my side is the center and the kessel. Try to seal it very securely...
Hi find here end of my turn 4
Next turn Little Saturn.
I wait for your comments
Der WanderFighter
laszlo.nemedi
15 Apr 04, 00:24
If I have time I would like to do this turn (I had someplace different ideas), of course it is only for analysis, so you can send this turn out...
If I have time I would like to do this turn (I had someplace different ideas), of course it is only for analysis, so you can send this turn out...Laszlo,
I put here the sal file of the beginning of turn (no move made at all) so you can replay it.
If you wan the PBL file as you still have my mail adress, send a little request I will return the file and the password.
What pleased me here is the breakthrough on North I will kill the 3 remant Italian regiments, try to seize or cut the supply on the west edge of the map, to outflank the Italian army.
On south, the line is broken, I think some units of 1Pz will come but he can't hold me everywhere, he is in trouble there IMHO. Let see what will occurs.
My main concern is the the Kessel, he will open the door, and I don't know if I will abble to close it easily?.
One possibility is to make the 1st mechanized army move to the south in 2 turns and close the kessel with a strong counter attack,
or to make a strong attack to the center and create an other Kessel
I will see that on next turn arrival.
My best thoughts
Der WanderSTAVKA
laszlo.nemedi
15 Apr 04, 16:13
So here is my version for your turn if you want an analysis...
(for me it was a pure fun)
So here is my version for your turn if you want an analysis...
(for me it was a pure fun)
You secure more than me, the western door of the Kessel I'm definitly weaker than you here
You push more deeper in south. But as I'm affraid of a breakthrough near Genarlov 67,38, I prefer to secure it with a stronger unit
For the north I prefer my breakthrough. It will permit me probably to surround him from west edge ?
Nice turn, give me your comments
Der WanderInterested
laszlo.nemedi
15 Apr 04, 17:12
I think turn four is not really good for big push. I agree, your north was better, and the south is not a big difference, but my real aim was secure the kessel. It will help to more concentrate on the later attack on the front.
(this week really tiresome for me, actually I will work for an another company, so many things to do in RL, so don't expect deeper analysis :nuts: , but I think the situation in the game is good for you, so nothing to worry about. If the kessel will be opened you can close it very soon)
Hi friends,
Little Staturn is running, turn 5 is done
Find here enclosed the SAL files of the beginning and end of turn
My best thoughts
Der WanderSoviet
laszlo.nemedi
25 Apr 04, 08:19
Seems OK! Don't let him to widen the gap at the kessel. One hex gap is not enough for him, otherwise it is seems OK. Close the gap at the kessel if you can...
Beginning of turn 6
Problem with Kessel, he tried to escape the HQ counters !!!!
Der WanderBlocked
End of Turn 6
Der WanderDelayed
CyberRanger
23 Jun 04, 17:35
Gambit has gone AWOL, his password cannot be located, so JL gets an OV!
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