plutonico vs viridomaros

[plutonico]

we are begining today, we are the last because i havent mail this weekened. i am sure that my opponent chosse historical deployed and 1st panzer early. i dont know whats the three TO, may be 19 th division. One question ¿when come my early reforcements of DON?

[plutonico]

sorry and thanks in advance

[laszlo.nemedi]

push the POST REPLY button, and then scroll down to the ADDITIONAL OPTIONS, and there you can find the MANAGE ATTACHMENT button...

[plutonico]

i see 1 pz units and i think that 19 th panzer too. Do you think that i follow with the attack in north or send several units to preserve the kessel?

[laszlo.nemedi]

First dig in ignore losses, not limit losses.
Don't use tactical reserve!

Maybe I would try to see what forces he has north of (61,32), I could see some weak units there. Breaking them can threat his back on the south.
At least touch them to see what is happening there...

Bring some units from the east of the kessel to the south of the kessel, to prepare for an attack if he cross the *** line.
I have a fear he will only encircle the kessel from the south to starve the forces where, and he will attack along the line from the south to the east and then to the north. That's why I think you have to prepare a bridge blowing around (93,32) using (92,27) HQ unit. Reinforcements should be redirected to the south and east of the kessel.

Attack on the far north won't help on your south front, I think...

[plutonico]

some suggestions about? Thank you lasloo, i dig in ignore loose now in advance.
i think that the 28 army must be attack to the west(rostov and try to connect with 44 army when they come? or try to cut the finger in direction to the kessel?
he is sending units of 1 st army panzer both north to italians and east to the kessel
more, i suppose that as he cross the * line i can use all my forces of Don in everywhere isnt it?

Thank you in adavance boys, motherland is nervous and stalin watch me.

[laszlo.nemedi]

You surely can move your Don front everywhere.

Question is good:

threatening the back of his south attack seems the best (attacking north),
I propose NW direction and you can decide later...

[CyberRanger]

Sorry if I sound like a broken record ... repeat ... repeat ... :cheeky: but get your artillery around the pocket firing. (It doesn't look like you have.) For example, break down the infantry unit at 77,22 and the armor unit at 79,22. Set each of them on min loss and launch a limited attack with those two units on 78,22. Have 272 Art Regiment direct fire (min losses so you don't burn extra combat rounds) onto 78,22. Leave your other artillery dug in but set to max loss.

If you do that, odds are you will dig out the Germans. Repeat next combat round and you will see his casualties go up. The attached pic shows what the batttle will look like. The German units will not like turn after turn of this treatment! Follow the same process for many hexes, especially anywhere that you can get a flanking attack (like 80,22 - 85,25 - 85,26 , etc.)

As already mentioned, get defending units on ignore losses. Get your HQ's dug in. They will provide indirect support when you attack.

[fast Heinz]

Is it better to attack with small unit + arty, first from one sde and then next phase from other side, or like your picture from 180 degrees both on same phase?

Also are the Don Front Armies the blue ones in the Stalingrad pocket?

[CyberRanger]

Is it better to attack with small unit + arty, first from one sde and then next phase from other side, or like your picture from 180 degrees both on same phase?Somewhere I posted to do it that way ... but that was BAD advice. On the FIRST combat round, attack from both hexes. You will get the flank bonus for that combat round. On subsequent combat rounds, you only need to attack from one of the flank hexes and you will still get the bonus. This will have the benefit of having less of your units exposed in the attack.

Of course, you could do it the other way. If you did, you will get the flanking bonus from round 2 on and you will only have one unit exposed during each round. However, I "think" getting the additional flanking bonus on the first round is a better way to go.


Also are the Don Front Armies the blue ones in the Stalingrad pocket?Yes, blue unit type on a brown background.

[Tiberius]

Is it better to attack with small unit + arty, first from one sde and then next phase from other side, or like your picture from 180 degrees both on same phase?

I'm pretty sure you get the flanking attack bonus either way, but not until the actual flanking attack is conducted so I say: better to attack from 180 degrees right away.

Also are the Don Front Armies the blue ones in the Stalingrad pocket?


I believe so from memory but I don't have the scenario open right now to double check.

[Tiberius]

Somewhere I posted to do it that way ... but that was BAD advice. On the FIRST combat round, attack from both hexes. You will get the flank bonus for that combat round. On subsequent combat rounds, you only need to attack from one of the flank hexes and you will still get the bonus. This will have the benefit of having less of your units exposed in the attack.

Of course, you could do it the other way. If you did, you will get the flanking bonus from round 2 on and you will only have one unit exposed during each round. However, I "think" getting the additional flanking bonus on the first round is a better way to go.

Yes, blue unit type on a brown background.

Ha, ha West Pointer! You got there fustest with the mostest!
In your example attack, wouldn't it be better to have your entrenched units at ignore losses, just in case the turn ends? And I think it's OK to have the dedicated fire support arty units at ignore because they will only attack in that mode for as long as the front line units do, no?

[Southern Dandy]

Except in direct fire mode, arty set at ignore losses will eat up 3 rounds all by itself, even if the ant units break off in the first round. I guess I'd rather only direct fire for one round and have the opportunity for further combat rounds than eating up 1/3 of the turn on direct artillery fire. At least, that's my understanding....get HEAT in here, he knows the answer!

Just my 2 pennies worth...

John

[CyberRanger]

Except in direct fire mode, arty set at ignore losses will eat up 3 rounds all by itself, even if the ant units break off in the first round. I guess I'd rather only direct fire for one round and have the opportunity for further combat rounds than eating up 1/3 of the turn on direct artillery fire. At least, that's my understanding....get HEAT in here, he knows the answer!

Just my 2 pennies worth...

JohnThat's my understanding too. I also don't like firing a lot of my artillery in direct fire mode because if the turn does end early, they won't provide support during the enemy's turn.

Having even one in direct fire seems to really help dig out the enemy. If the rest are in indirect, they can help with multiple other attacks.

[CyberRanger]

... In your example attack, wouldn't it be better to have your entrenched units at ignore losses, just in case the turn ends? ..Absolutely ... that was just a quicky example from Plutonico's game. So ... Plutonico, get those dug in units on ignore losses! ;)

[laszlo.nemedi]

Fire support:

I start it with direct support, and later I start to dig them in but not all, so in the end maybe few won't be dug in...

[plutonico]

several advances in north and far north, so with 28 army in the south but not very well near from kessel, thought thank you your sugestions they are retrated in some locations. My doubt is where i have the 44 army and how is it and if i have to go inside with 2nd guard army or try to take to the 62 th inf axis at back.

some sugestions for the game?

i only have 3 round.

[plutonico]

i chosse operation saturno that beging next turn i think. When come 44 army i see a lot of unites of 1th panzer army goes to north and east. no adavences in kessel.

thanks again

[laszlo.nemedi]

Ez PBL file, post SAL file please...

[plutonico]

May be that soviet are with problems in many games?

[CyberRanger]

...When come 44 army i see a lot of unites of 1th panzer army goes to north and east. ...The units of the 44th Army will all arrive on the same turn as the last units of the 1st Pz Army. The actual arrival turn is random but I think within 5 turns of the 1st Pz Army units arriving.

[laszlo.nemedi]

May be that soviet are with problems in many games?
most of your units in limit loss :(

and what about tactical reserve, and local reserve, try to not use it...

[CyberRanger]

May be that soviet are with problems in many games?Your situation looks pretty decent to me. Really start pounding in the north. You have a good breakout in the south and the area around the pocket looks decent. Loss penalty is fairly good (Soviet 7 - German 3).

As mentioned ... all defenders on ignore losses ... pound, pound, pound the pocket with artillery.

He has entered the *** hexes so now all your units have complete freedom of movement. I'm not sure what he has in the center of his line south of the pocket but you may want to probe to see if he's left a weak gap there.

[plutonico]

I choose this option only to be sure that the link between VI army and the rescue troops were delayed (i chosee put in tactical mode some tanks units) It´s wrong this? more units in this mode is a mistake between one round and the next (because i waited to move this units)

thanks and go up tovarich¡

[CyberRanger]

I choose this option only to be sure that the link between VI army and the rescue troops were delayed ..The problem with reserve status is that a good player who realizes that you are using it will run the reserve units all over the board. They won't go where you want them to go and then on your turn they will be low (or out) of movement points.

They also won't be dug-in if attacked. I use tactical reserve in rare cases where I'm almost positive the unit will move to the hex I want it to move to.

[plutonico]

advances in far north, north and centre. South too. But i still dont see his units of 1st panzer army. Do you think that i have to penetrate more near from morozosf or wait dig in, ready to his counterattack?

more advices are wellcome. (i fordet dig in my 28 army)

[Heinz57]

For planning your end of turn disposition, it is good to keep an eye on the playback of what your opponenent is doing. Where he is actively attacking conducting Ignore Loss/Limited Attacks in what you anticipate being your last Tactical Round can be useful. Having another unit dug in from the hex from which you are attacking can also be helpful.

Continue as you are in the north -- don't fear to attack either the Romanian Tank Div. or the German Inf. up there. It may take once, it may take twice, or it may take three times, but a good attack with artillery support (incl. the Rom. TD) will push them back.

Your 28th Army is probably okay for the next few turns, but is vulnerable. It is doing so good however that my only recommendation for you there is to continue as you are doing but insure that you are dug in, which you know. Screen the flank as you go. You've made a good rate there.

With 1st Gds Mech Corps, I'd suggest if you want to keep it where it is presently, to let it and it alone cover a 20 km front. You won't get cooperative attacks with either 5th TA or 5th Shock, and defenses in most cases will also be penalized where stacked together. Whatever you can relieve with 1st Gds MC can be shifted West to support what appears to be another really good offensive, but one that is subject to counterattacks.

You can pull your Air Defense units into the front lines near the pocket. Also, where possible try to keep your HQ's adjacent to as many units within their formation so as to provide a little extra supply, i.e. with the Don Reinforcement Artillery.

You have strong forces along the pocket, would be good to find some expendables to continuously attack the perimeter.

Good Job!

[Southern Dandy]

Home for lunch....thought I'd give your situation a looking over since you had requested us to do so....I'm bouncing back and forth between the game and the forum, so if this makes little sense, that's why....

Where's 1st PzA, you ask? All over the map!

Two divisions of it (3rd PzD and 16th Mot Div) are supporting LVII PzK south of the pocket. 3rd PzD is near Chir Station, 16th Mot Div is near Kargata.

I'm guessing that's the 111th ID NW of Rostov...I'm not sure why your opponent has it way out there. The only thing I can come up with is that he's planning to use that in the defense of Rostov versus your 44th Army and moved it out of the way for the time being to ease the passage of 7th PzD or 5th SS PzD (see below) along the road net around Rostov. Or maybe they're getting a 2 year head start on the retreat to Berlin.... :D :cheeky: :nuts:

That leaves only 7th PzD and 5th SS PzD unaccounted for...given that your 44th Army arrives the same turn as the last formation from 1st PzA (most likely this will be 5th SS PzD), it seems logical that one, if not both of these divisions will take up defensive positions across from 44th Army's assembly area. It's also possible that one of these divisions is somewhere out of sight but already on the map. I just don't have enough information to give a more definite answer....but if it is, I'm willing to bet it'll show up in LVII PzK's drive on the kessel before long.

Moving along then....

28th Army looks good...keep pushing west. I think you're at a point that someone is going to have to blink, and if it's your opponent who blinks first, his relief effort suffers, since he'll have to divert forces from it to deal with 28th Army.

Be wary of those 2 Rumanian infantry divisions south of the Aksay River between Genarlov and Shestakov. I'm guessing they're moving to take on 28th Army from the north.

I'm surprised to see that your opponent dropped 1/3 of his Brandenbergers into the lines up north. He's getting really desperate, methinks, to do something like that. You've really got him on the run up there- a good push by 1st Guards should get you Chertkovo and more importantly, the rail line one hex beyond. That'll really mess up his supply situation up there.

I think you're in a good spot here. Start reducing the pocket, push aggressively north and south, and probe those open areas in the center. You may be able to grab some VPs really cheap, or at least find out more about his force disposition in the center.

John

[plutonico]

i continue advanced in north and far north, he is counteratacking in the centre and i can caught some cities. i still waitng for 44 th army and advancing in south. he can not link with sixth army but my attacks in the west of keesel have been defeat with a lot of losse. some better in teh nort of kessel. advices are welcome.
plutonico

[plutonico]

the question is if soviet can mantain three or four lines of attack. he sent the 27 pz division to north and they are in the line of rail to the north and some units are reforcing the hole near morozsk. i think that he can not link with kessel. However each little meter conquest in the kessel i have a lot of losses. only north of kessel with the aim of artillery reforts are be able to withdraw german forces.
advices are wellcome.

plutonico

[plutonico]

have i to destroy the little units on the north or i must to run to the center forget them for next turns or keep them with little forces?

[CyberRanger]

have i to destroy the little units on the north or i must to run to the center forget them for next turns or keep them with little forces?I would take out those little units in the north. Especially as you get them out of supply, I think you'll find the Italian units will crumble easily.

Overall, your situation looks great! One of the better one's I've seen. The loss penalty is only 5-11 against you; the pocket looks locked up; and you have great penetration in the north.

The north is where you win. Knock out the little units in your rear, keep pushing sw, and try to move 6th Army Rfl Corp towards Rossoh and then sw from there. That will expand the front even more ... causing him continual headaches.

[plutonico]

he is near to link the kessel but i think that his suply lines are weak. Somebody can see the map and say me where is the line of suply from their units trying to contact the kessel. And another question how can affect the cut of rail line to the north for my 23-24 mech corps 2th guard division.
i am to 2 hexagons from millerovo,near to conquest Nitsky chriskaya and five hexagons from Zimovinky.
estrategig advices are wellcome.
plutonico

[Southern Dandy]

I've given your .SAL a quick looking over, my initial impressions follow...

It appears that the relief effort's link-up with the kessel is unavoidable. I don't think, given the condition some of his units are in, that it will last for long if you remain active against it.

I would suggest that continued southward pressure by 5th Tank Army, up to and crossing the Don behind LVII PzK and forward elements of 1st PzA will put him grave peril. Should you choose, the possibilty also exists that elements of 44th Army could push towards Stalingrad and link up with 28th Army and 5th Tank Army. This is high-risk, grand scheming on my part, but if it were successful, you could then trap 1/2 or more of his OOB, and have them stuck with extremely limited supply (almost none, really).

The only major reserve he has available now is 19th PzD, due to arrive in roughly 5 turns, I believe. He'll have to commit it immediately- my guesses would be Rostov or along the Millerovo-Voroshilovgrad axis. If he's feeling daring, he might try to cross the lower Don, near the confluence with the Donetz, to menace 44th Army....but he's got too many holes to fill to try and pull that off, in my opinion.

Otherwise, I think you're in marvelous shape. You have one heck of a scrap near Rostov coming up, from the looks of it, but a winnable one!

John

[plutonico]

he was waiting for my advance in three lines froms south and destroy 5 units with their 111 and 7 th panzer division.Be careful when you move the 44 th army (learning in my head)
however i am surrounding some units near from Don. i caught millerovo too but i saw units near in the replay. he link with the kessel at last.

[plutonico]

i forgot it

[plutonico]

i try to eliminate 22 th panzer division,294 and 62 th infantry division and 2th rumanian army in the nex turs. after this i want to launch 3thguard army to the south. The final strategy aim is try to cut and separate all the army that is pressing against the kessel, linking the 28 th army, the 3th guard and the central front units .

it´s so much ambicious? advices are wellcome.
someone know when come 19th panzer division, because i guess that is near to begin the fight, and they are fresh and good.
plutonico

[plutonico]

are his units without suply?. I dont know. My turn finished only with two rounds. However the rest of the 22, 294 and 62 div. will be eliminated in the next turn, alowing me send units to the south. i´ll try to surround more than one hundred german units.
other thing, with artillery direct attack the german units are evaporating in the kessel more easily that with many attacks with min-limit losses.

[CyberRanger]

Wow ... you two have a wild situation right now. As far as the supply question, if you are talking about his units that are sort of behind your lines in the NW, I'd say most are probably out of supply.

[laszlo.nemedi]

Yeah the situation is very wild. I cannot easily analyse it.
I think your situation is much better, but try to stabilize the situation in some place, try to establish a continous frontline.

I would like to see frontline with more continous line, otherwise anytime a surprise can happen.

[plutonico]

but some of the efect is because he withdraws a lot of small units of centre in this turn. however i stoped the operations around Millerovo and rail line. i want to advance in the centre and finish with the rest sorrounded units and then throw this units to the south, to the rail line.
plutonico

[plutonico]

north, kessel and east. i think that he think that the kessel is lost and they want to save all is possible and i think that may be to organize a hard line of defense back of Donezt. he let very small police, italian and rumanian units in the fronts and withdraws all the hardest. my situation in the south is bad and they are coming with many hard units.
Someone know if with this map they are receiving suply at east?
he lost the pitomick suply point in this turn.

[plutonico]

The other is not finished turn.

[plutonico]

view and judge

[Southern Dandy]

Without DL'ing the latest .SAL you've posted and giving it a thorough looking over and basing my opinion solely on the JPG....

What supply his forces in the bigger, new, and improved kessel (now with 50% more Germans! :p ) are minimal at best through most of the area you've enveloped. Supply situation is best for Axis units closest to Pitomnik and Gumrak, along roads and undamaged rail.

Things to remember...

Just because you've converted hexes between his western supply points and the forces all but trapped in the southeast does not mean that supply is cut from the west. The only sure way to do this is to have a unit in every hex of the enlarged pocket. If my understanding of the supply rules is incorrect, someone please correct me, and quickly!

Despite the loss of his supply points in Gumrak and Pitomnik starting with the next turn, all units in the larger kessel can (and will, to some degree) receive limited resupply by air, less whatever amount he uses to transport units by air.

Have you reached turn 15 yet? I didn't notice, but when that turn starts (if you're not there), the weather will become "frozen 3," meaning that all super rivers, flooded marsh, and shallow water hexes will freeze over, allowing units to cross them regardless of engineering assets. I mention this because I'd hate to see any of his forces slip out of the your net....don't give him an opening along the Don, since that looks to be his only salvation right now!

Anyhow, your situation is looking just fantastic! Keep the pressure up, and remember, as you tighten the noose, you have 20-30 turns to squeeze the kessel shut...no need to crank up your loss penalty in trying to do in 10 turns what you have many more to accomplish!

John

[plutonico]

are again in the hands of red army. The kessel is evaporated. But a lot of units of 6th army is out.
plutonico

[plutonico]

Rostov have fallen (thouhgt may be only for little time, because 5th ss division is coming to reconquest it). The big kessel still is closed and no more german units in the old kessel of Stalingrado.

plutonico

[CyberRanger]

What a wild map! Congratulations on taking Rostov. He may be able to relieve it with the 5 SS but more likely I think you will be able to destroy a lot of the 7 Pz div before 5 SS gets there. Then you can destroy 5 SS!

Once you consolidate and regroup the forces that have finished the Stalingrad battle, you opponent is in big trouble!

[plutonico]

my opponent is trying to break the new kessel but is not easy for him. 6 th rumanian army and 7 th panzer are in a very bad state. i am sending a almost-suicide unit of the gloriuos 44 th army to capture taganrog. if it has exit some of the air units may evaporate.

[plutonico]

he is running towards west and my units are stoped with small units in the road. he is pushing hardly to try to break the big-kessel and SS is trying to recover Rostov.
My almost-suicide unit conquered three airports that sending planes to other airport ¿outside from the map?
some little progress in the front of river but they are defending like rats¡¡

plutonico

[plutonico]

a lot of fights in the south and north. here is the file.

[laszlo.nemedi]

Nice one, victory is coming... :D

[plutonico]

the new kessel is closing. i am stoping the advance towards Donetz because mu unots are tired and the suply is terrible, about 5-7. I am waiting to reduce the kessel and then launch all the armies to Rostov.

[plutonico]

i forgot it

[laszlo.nemedi]

Lol, it is very good tovarish! :D

[plutonico]

the second encirclement is almost extinted. i am sending troops quickly to try liberate rostov. may be o may be not.

plutonico

[laszlo.nemedi]

the second encirclement is almost extinted. i am sending troops quickly to try liberate rostov. may be o may be not.

plutonico

Try to secure the victory points which is captured. Better to have a sure marginal vic than a risky situation.
Be careful in the last turns he will get some powerful units and those really can stop you (I hope not).

Godd work anyway, congrats!

[CyberRanger]

Good work anyway, congrats!

Ditto! Situation looks great. I'd send the your freed units from the 2nd encirclement to the north of Rostov, cut it off, and then capture it.

As Laszlo said, be careful not to lose the 30 pt vp gained in the north. That's still sitting on the front line!

[plutonico]

but it´s very difficult, my units have a low suply and is difficult the communications by road. i am trying to capture one hex more in front but is not very easy. In some turns i put all my armor units in tactical mode one hex back to the cities.

[JoeBob]

All I can say is: Nice Job! :thumup:

You've done quite a job of wiping out his army with encirclements, and capturing the Kessel AND Voroshivilograd!

Laszlo and WestPointer are right though. You must keep that 30 pointer at all costs and try to expand a few hexes outward from the city to help secure it. No easy task, but you have another 7 or 8 turns to do it.

And Rostov is so close! You have nothing to lose in making an all out attempt to capture it, especially with so many loose units that can now wander over and help out.

Mainly I just wanted to offer some support. Hope my game turns out as good as yours! :whist:

[plutonico]

but i think that the fight aroud rostov is only begining. I try to move hard and green units near for vorosligrad by train.

plutonico

[plutonico]

i post the turn 33 where i capture rostov (again, and the last word still is not said) and one hexagon around vorosligrad. the troops are running to the front from the old second keeseel.

greetings

[JoeBob]

Looks like you have developed a firm grip on Vorosh, and are starting to developed some well-defended hexes outside of it as well, so that is very good!

You may keep trading Rostov for a little bit, but I think you have the advantage in force numbers in the area and will soon gain control of it permanently.

Mostly it's hard to even find any Germans anymore. Looks like you are headed for an OV.

Excellent job!!! :devil:

[CyberRanger]

i post the turn 33 where i capture rostov (again, and the last word still is not said) and one hexagon around vorosligrad. the troops are running to the front from the old second keeseel.

greetings

SITREP please!

[plutonico]

after holidays we return to reconsquest motherland

plutonico

[plutonico]

rostov still in our hands.Very strong russian units are coming to the front by train, after a lot of turns of slowly repair.
plutonico

[plutonico]

i have occupied one hexagon around all value points. only one of this in hands of axis.
plutonico

[CyberRanger]

i have occupied one hexagon around all value points. only one of this in hands of axis.
plutonicoThe game looks to be in the bag for you. The result so far is the most controlled looking battle I've seen. Normally, it seems one side or the other falls apart.

[plutonico]

the heroes of soviet union have damage to axis troops in a no-return point. we go to Berlin. +158 points and OV victory.

hurras to tovarich Stalin

[CyberRanger]

the heroes of soviet union have damage to axis troops in a no-return point. we go to Berlin. +158 points and OV victory.

hurras to tovarich Stalin
Excellent work!

[laszlo.nemedi]

the heroes of soviet union have damage to axis troops in a no-return point. we go to Berlin. +158 points and OV victory.

hurras to tovarich Stalin

Good work, commander! :D

[Bdr.Mallette]

Good job.

Takes pressure off of me, a little.

Dostroviyah!

[viridomaros]

at least i'm happy to see my game produced much comments :laugh:

[JoeBob]

Hip-hip Hurrah!!!

:clap:

Another OV for the unstoppable Soviets!

Better hurry to Berlin before all those desperate Germans drink all that fine lager!

[viridomaros]

Hip-hip Hurrah!!!

:clap:

Another OV for the unstoppable Soviets!

Better hurry to Berlin before all those desperate Germans drink all that fine lager!

we already drunk all to celebrate our victory for the tournament :laugh:

[plutonico]

and here you can see my troops. i dont like much because we are still playing again. (but with you the russians dont have the same vistory that me¡¡ :p