View Full Version : Game type selection
How are we choosing game type? This is unclear to me now and I want to straighten it out before contacting my opponent. I was previously under the impression that it would be possible to automatically 'disagree' with the German and force historical that way. i.e. send out a message "I disagree with however many TOs you want so we will ahve to play historical."
But I'm not sure if it's that clear cut. Do we send out a blind message (0-3) without knowing the opponents choice, while the opponent does the same?
Then if we agree great, if not: historical. Or is there a negotiating system where he says one number (or I do) and agreement is reached or a counter-offer made, etc.
In all fairness I think the first (automatic disagreement) is a little unfair to the axis - but OK with me. :D
The second option, blind choices, leads to some game theory, as we Russians try to figure out which number the Germans would like the least, and choosing that one, expecting the Germans to take that one as well, avoiding historical. (or maybe if we figure they will take that one we will take another one, hoping to force historical, but risking a disadvantageous matchup.
Very interesting
CyberRanger
15 Mar 04, 21:41
Bill - this is WAR! If you can't reach an agreement, than the game is historical. Now ... I don't expect the Germans to like that .... but this is WAR!
I'm trying to get the German player to show me his hand first, so I can get a feel for his strategy. If we can't agree (I want one non-deployment TO and the deployment TO although my deployment TO will be historical) then I'll force a historical game.
Maybe not fair to the Germans ... but we like that! (Actually, Pelle has said the scenario TO's are balanced so the game should still be fair, the German may just not like how the selection is made.) Hey ... life sucks sometimes!
But ... Mantis has been very clear - failure to reach agreement means a historical game.
CyberRanger
15 Mar 04, 21:53
My recommendation is to email your German opponent, before he emails you, and ask him what type of game he wants to play. Don't offer what you want! Get him to say first. In a negotiation, the first one to name a number almost always "loses".
If that doesn't work and you can't agree, the historical game (IMO) is a good game for the Soviets to play.
(I have all the German email address if you can't find it ... don't have time to send all of them right now.)
So is it legitimate to just say right out: "I don't agree to any number of options, we're going to be stuck playing historical" ? Why are you choosing the one option path? In the historical game we get one and the Germans don't. Are you just being sporting?
My feeling is that if we go straight for the "I disagree, we will play historical"
route the Germans will cry foul and Mantis will rule that we must make some kind of attempt to find an agreement. -could be wrong but I have a feeling Mantis hasn't really thought this through and when the enemy commander goes crying to him he's going to change his tune.
I guess what you are advising us to do is get the disagreement, but make it 'look' legitimate by getting them to go first and then disagreeing. Are we obligated to put a number out there at all?
Germans: How about two options each?
Russians: No, I disagree. game is historical.
Germans: Well how many do you want?
Russians: er, uh, 1 for me and none for you
Germans: foul!
If I'm over thinking this just tell me to shut up and go for a historical game.
edit: I guess I'm a little confused whether or not we are obliged to make ANY effort to agree or exactly what our obligations are in that regard.
CyberRanger
16 Mar 04, 06:11
So is it legitimate to just say right out: "I don't agree to any number of options, we're going to be stuck playing historical" ? Why are you choosing the one option path? In the historical game we get one and the Germans don't. Are you just being sporting?
As your CO, the rules are clear. If the players cannot agree, the historical option will be played. So, if you want the historical option, you can just tell your opponent that upfront. I'd prefer you try to find out what he wants first to increase our intelligence about enemy intentions.
As a WFHQ staff member, if Mantis or S. Heat feel we are getting out of line and risking the solidarity of the club, I'll ask them to let us know. (Sending email to Heat to check out this thread.)
I don't really predict a problem. Enough of us are planning on non-historical games that we can't be accussed of being monolithic meanies.
laszlo.nemedi
16 Mar 04, 07:06
As my opponent not listed in the ladder and I suppose beginner in TOAW I will accept his offer, so it won't be a monolithic decision...
(anyway it is a game, sometimes fun to be defeated... ...NOOOOOOO :devil:
As your CO, the rules are clear. If the players cannot agree, the historical option will be played. So, if you want the historical option, you can just tell your opponent that upfront. I'd prefer you try to find out what he wants first to increase our intelligence about enemy intentions.
As a WFHQ staff member, if Mantis or S. Heat feel we are getting out of line and risking the solidarity of the club, I'll ask them to let us know. (Sending email to Heat to check out this thread.)
I don't really predict a problem. Enough of us are planning on non-historical games that we can't be accussed of being monolithic meanies.
OK, got it. All clear now. I have sent my initial e-mail keeping my option choice close to the vest. If he offers options I will respond that he will have to convince me he is a real noob before I agree to any non-historical option.
CyberRanger
16 Mar 04, 09:38
As my opponent not listed in the ladder and I suppose beginner in TOAW I will accept his offer, so it won't be a monolithic decision...
(anyway it is a game, sometimes fun to be defeated... ...NOOOOOOO :devil:
Enjoy ... but don't be deceived. I don't think Francis Nash is as much of a rookie as you may think! He is on the inactive ladder with a 4-2-0 record, including a Marginal victory in 74 turns of Drang Nach Osten as side one. Word is he has also played a lot on Rugged Defense.
CyberRanger
16 Mar 04, 09:42
OK, got it. All clear now. I have sent my initial e-mail keeping my option choice close to the vest. If he offers options I will respond that he will have to convince me he is a real noob before I agree to any non-historical option.
Cool .... I guess (to be a bit softer) if your opponent wants 3 TO's but will compromise, offer him a deployment TO and one non-deployment TO . That may be better for club unity and harmony. But if he won't bend at all from insisting on 3 TO's and you want historical, then force the historical.
Now ... has that really muddied the waters!? Yeah, we want to win, but it is a game. :p
laszlo.nemedi
16 Mar 04, 10:25
Enjoy ... but don't be deceived. I don't think Francis Nash is as much of a rookie as you may think! He is on the inactive ladder with a 4-2-0 record, including a Marginal victory in 74 turns of Drang Nach Osten as side one. Word is he has also played a lot on Rugged Defense.
OK I look for it, nothing decided yet...
Guys, don't look at the 'historical option' as a tactic, look at it as the result of failure. If you'd like a historical game, tell your opponent that, and see what happens. My thoughts on this were that I want everyone to act like adults, and work it out with their opponents, just like everyone'd be forced to do were we not in a tourney setting.
Pretend you're playing a game with someone of this scenario, all by yourself. If you couldn't agree, you wouldn't play. (All games work that way!) What I was attempting to do with this was to give you freedom; freedom to decide the TO yourselves, instead of me imposing one on you. ("Tiberius, I choose you to be under the gun for your team, they get 3, you get 1")... Didn't sound like a popular choice for anyone concerned.
So look at this as a blessing, not a strategy.
CyberRanger
16 Mar 04, 19:08
....
So look at this as a blessing, not a strategy.Mantis ... as a fellow WFHQ staffer, thank you for taking the time for a thoughtful reply to help the Soviets stay true.
... My thoughts on this were that I want everyone to act like adults...As the Soviet CO ... I say :p
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