Bruce
11 Mar 04, 13:48
From MikeJ:
Maybe it's just me, but I have no intention of losing the initative, if at all possible. I'm hoping to get slotted into TO Northern Deployment. That's a good position to annihilate the 5th Tank Army and re-establish contact with 6th army (and if conditions are favourable I fully intend to keep them in play to keep Don Front forces occupied). Put a good scare into the Soviet player, threaten his troops with encirclement and you won't have to worry about the Soviets launching offensives all over the place. He'll send 2nd Guards Army to you (so you can encircle and destroy it in detail ;). After a brief look at the scenario, I've noticed a lot of places where the front can be weakened to concentrate heavier on the attack. The weakest fronts (Italian/Rumanian) can be spread even thinner - we're going to get crushed there anyways regardless of what we do, so don't get any illusions about holding the Don. We can afford to lose a lot of territory on those fronts anyways. Granted, that's all easier said than done, but if there's one thing I've learned in TOAW it's that you can scare people fairly easily. You get really experienced opponents and it's difficult, but against your average TOAW player a strong offensive, even one that has no chance of ultimate success will have them falling all over themselves. I like high-risk/high-payoff strategies and frankly I don't see good prospects for winning the attrition war. The Soviets get 580 rifle squads per turn, we get 80. If we sit around and play defensively, even if we are all master tacticians, we're likely to lose. More likely, a competent Soviet opponent will just run us into the ground with repeated, heavy attacks. And there is really no answer for that given the victory conditions.
From Furocity:
Mike I think the idea of hitting hard in the north is bold and might work, it also depends where he places his 2nd guards. I love nothing more than taking out Russians, but I think getting the HQ units out of the pocket is the number one objective.
From Nemo:
I've yet to formalize thoughts and notes taken during the play but I second the idea that initiative should not be surrendered to the Russian side. I believe 6. Armee can be reached from the outside but the question remains wether it can have a significant combat value after the encirclement is broken, even with the Thunderclap TO activated - units in the pocket seem indeed very weak.
From Bruce:
MikeJ has already explained how this deployment can be used. Basically it reduces the chances of relieving the pocket in exchange for the possibility of pocketing large numbers of Soviets. If the Soviets choose a Northern Deployment this offensive could stall immediately. If they choose a centre deployment they could prevent the pocket being closed from the South. If the Soviets choose a Southern deployment they will probably be clobbered! Two out of three Soviet deployments could cause problems with this plan.
Maybe it's just me, but I have no intention of losing the initative, if at all possible. I'm hoping to get slotted into TO Northern Deployment. That's a good position to annihilate the 5th Tank Army and re-establish contact with 6th army (and if conditions are favourable I fully intend to keep them in play to keep Don Front forces occupied). Put a good scare into the Soviet player, threaten his troops with encirclement and you won't have to worry about the Soviets launching offensives all over the place. He'll send 2nd Guards Army to you (so you can encircle and destroy it in detail ;). After a brief look at the scenario, I've noticed a lot of places where the front can be weakened to concentrate heavier on the attack. The weakest fronts (Italian/Rumanian) can be spread even thinner - we're going to get crushed there anyways regardless of what we do, so don't get any illusions about holding the Don. We can afford to lose a lot of territory on those fronts anyways. Granted, that's all easier said than done, but if there's one thing I've learned in TOAW it's that you can scare people fairly easily. You get really experienced opponents and it's difficult, but against your average TOAW player a strong offensive, even one that has no chance of ultimate success will have them falling all over themselves. I like high-risk/high-payoff strategies and frankly I don't see good prospects for winning the attrition war. The Soviets get 580 rifle squads per turn, we get 80. If we sit around and play defensively, even if we are all master tacticians, we're likely to lose. More likely, a competent Soviet opponent will just run us into the ground with repeated, heavy attacks. And there is really no answer for that given the victory conditions.
From Furocity:
Mike I think the idea of hitting hard in the north is bold and might work, it also depends where he places his 2nd guards. I love nothing more than taking out Russians, but I think getting the HQ units out of the pocket is the number one objective.
From Nemo:
I've yet to formalize thoughts and notes taken during the play but I second the idea that initiative should not be surrendered to the Russian side. I believe 6. Armee can be reached from the outside but the question remains wether it can have a significant combat value after the encirclement is broken, even with the Thunderclap TO activated - units in the pocket seem indeed very weak.
From Bruce:
MikeJ has already explained how this deployment can be used. Basically it reduces the chances of relieving the pocket in exchange for the possibility of pocketing large numbers of Soviets. If the Soviets choose a Northern Deployment this offensive could stall immediately. If they choose a centre deployment they could prevent the pocket being closed from the South. If the Soviets choose a Southern deployment they will probably be clobbered! Two out of three Soviet deployments could cause problems with this plan.