POA2: Technical map questions

[Don Maddox]

HPS,

I have several technical questions that I need answers to as soon as you get a chance.

1. There is a bug in the “linker” that links the TEC to a map. Every time I try to do it I get a C++ error. There are no files I can send you for this that I know of. This needs to be addressed quick because it is not possible to create any new maps right now unless you manually copy the ECX file.

2. As I understand it the game can have multiple TEC files. The ECX file that comes with the map tells the program which one to use, correct?

3. What's the deal with the unit symbols? I can edit these with the symbol editor, add to them, delete some, or even resize them—but no matter what I do the changes don’t show up in the game. I even tried deleting the entire Symbol Set directory and the game ran without it! How in the world is that possible? :confused: I have made extensive changes to the terrain symbols (and I’m tinkering with unit symbols), however, I can’t get any of these changes to actually show up in POA2. They show up in the various ADC2 editors just fine. What in the world?

4. How are you handling the “unit size designations” and the colored “status boxes” on the zoom level 3 unit icons? I don’t see any bmp files anywhere that these are pulled from. I see the unit icons themselves, but I don’t see any way that the “status boxes” or “unit size indicators” can be altered or messed with. I’m experimenting with some new unit icons, but I can’t for the life of me get any of the changes I have made to the unit symbols to show up in the game. Editing the default symbol sets does not appear to actually do anything within POA2. This is really bizarre…

Thax for the help!

[Combatengineer]

HPS,

Snip.
3. What's the deal with the unit symbols? I can edit these with the symbol editor, add to them, delete some, or even resize them—but no matter what I do the changes don’t show up in the game. I even tried deleting the entire Symbol Set directory and the game ran without it! How in the world is that possible? :confused: I have made extensive changes to the terrain symbols (and I’m tinkering with unit symbols), however, I can’t get any of these changes to actually show up in POA2. They show up in the various ADC2 editors just fine. What in the world?

Snip


Don here is an answer I got when asking about the new military OPFOR symbols that the Army now uses:

Secondly, it is possible to use different units symbols than the ones in the default set, including the “diamond” ones used for enemy forces as in the latest FM 5-100. However, to do this would require someone adding these symbols to the existing symbol set. It’s not that hard, really, but requires the use of Aide De Camp 2 (ADC2) - another HPS software product (but it would have to be purchased - it is not provided under the current contract).

Once the symbol set has been modified, there are two ways to use the new symbols. The first is that the scenario creator could go through the enemy units one by one and set their symbols to the new ones (from the standard defaults) using the Unit Information form. This can be done with either version of POA-2, military or civilian.

The other method only applied to the military version.

John

[Don Maddox]

I understand that the symbols need to be edited. I have ADD2 and that is what I used to redo many of them. Too easy. The problem is that they don't show up in the game. I'm not talking about adding "new" symbols, I'm talking about editing the existing ones. These are just simple bmp files and can be manipulated in any graphics program.

I have done extensive changes and they show up just fine in ADC2, but they don't show up in POA2. I even took extra care to copy over the default ones and they still don't show up. I'm at a loss to determine exactly where POA2 is pulling the symbols from. Even deleting the entire symbol sets directory causes...nothing! The game runs fine without it. So where the hell is it storing the symbols it is using? I'm completely stumped, but I do know it should not be working like this. The only thing I can figure is that POA2 has loaded the symbol set into some type of temporary Windows folder and is no longer pulling from the default directories.

I'm trying to get a stright answer from Scott on this issue. Once I figure it out, it should be a straightforward process to add the new stuff.

[Combatengineer]

Don,

Are you creating new scenario's. I don't know Scotts reply seems to imply that the information is stored in the scenario file. If the images are there when the scenario is created then the program stores it???

John

[Don Maddox]

The symbol sets are not stored with the scenario files, they are stored in the Symbol Sets directory. What he is referring to above is that scenario authors can edit or assign any symbol they want to any unit during the scenario creation process. A player can also do it during gameplay, but I'm not sure why you would want to.

[HPS]

1. There is a bug in the “linker” that links the TEC to a map. Every time I try to do it I get a C++ error. There are no files I can send you for this that I know of. This needs to be addressed quick because it is not possible to create any new maps right now unless you manually copy the ECX file.


Please send me your TEC file, terrain set and the map that uses the terrain set and I’ll try to link them here. With those files I should get the same error, so I should be able to get it taken care of quickly.

2. As I understand it the game can have multiple TEC files. The ECX file that comes with the map tells the program which one to use, correct?


Yes, the map’s .ECX file also contains the name of the TEC file to which it is linked. So, others shouldn’t have any problems using the new maps and other files as long as they have that TEC file and the symbol set. The first time they load it they may need to find the correct folders, but after that it should be smooth sailing.

3. What's the deal with the unit symbols? I can edit these with the symbol editor, add to them, delete some, or even resize them—but no matter what I do the changes don’t show up in the game. I even tried deleting the entire Symbol Set directory and the game ran without it! How in the world is that possible? :confused: I have made extensive changes to the terrain symbols (and I’m tinkering with unit symbols), however, I can’t get any of these changes to actually show up in POA2. They show up in the various ADC2 editors just fine. What in the world?


The only explanation is that you must not be using the updated terrain set for your POA games. I added a symbol for missiles to the two existing sets, and they show up just fine in the game. The first step is to make sure your symbol set is something very recognizable - like “Dons Set”. Then change the symbol set link in the map editor for the map you’re working to that “Dons Set” (and even if you already did it, it’s worth trying again). From that point on, that map, and any POA2 scenarios created with that map, will use “Dons Set” for both the terrain and units.

4. How are you handling the “unit size designations” and the colored “status boxes” on the zoom level 3 unit icons? I don’t see any bmp files anywhere that these are pulled from. I see the unit icons themselves, but I don’t see any way that the “status boxes” or “unit size indicators” can be altered or messed with. I’m experimenting with some new unit icons, but I can’t for the life of me get any of the changes I have made to the unit symbols to show up in the game. Editing the default symbol sets does not appear to actually do anything within POA2. This is really bizarre…


The dots and size indicators are hard coded and drawn on the fly. I figured to have added another layer of complexity on top of what was already there would have been ... a little over the top. ;) So it’s all done automatically.

See ya!
-Scott

[Don Maddox]

Scott,

Here is part of the problem: if you open a map with ADC2 and click Tools / Change Symbol Set, the program allows you switch to a new set. It even prompts you if you want to save with the new set or not. I have edited several maps and changed them to a new symbol set, however, the new symbol set is not saved as the set for that map. If you close it and re-open ADC2 and the same map again, it defaults backs to the previous symbol set. It doesn’t appear to be saving which symbol set it is supposed to be using.

[HPS]

You’re right.... it doesn’t save. I have no idea why - I’ve used that feature plenty of times, but there it is.

I checked, and “Save As” works, however, so go ahead and use that until I can figure out what is going on.

I’ll check your TEC stuff in a little while.

[HPS]

I sent you a new file, this should fix it. I was clearing the map file name so people wouldn't screw themselves... which is something I just added recently. The problem is that for some reason I wasn't letting them pick a new one.

Now after changing the set, it goes through the "Save As" routine - which is the safest way to go.

Thanks!
-Scott

[Don Maddox]

The dots and size indicators are hard coded and drawn on the fly. I figured to have added another layer of complexity on top of what was already there would have been ... a little over the top. So it’s all done automatically.

Scott,

Hmmm, is there any way around this from my end? The reason I ask is that I have been playing around with both hex sizes and symbol sizes to see what works best. I have been toying with the concept of much more detailed unit counters for zoom 3. The problem is I have discovered that altering the size of the counters causes errors in the way the system displays the counters.

[HPS]

Scott,

Hmmm, is there any way around this from my end? The reason I ask is that I have been playing around with both hex sizes and symbol sizes to see what works best. I have been toying with the concept of much more detailed unit counters for zoom 3. The problem is I have discovered that altering the size of the counters causes errors in the way the system displays the counters.
The status dots are currently placed 10 pixels from the bottom of the symbol, and at 7, 19, and 30 pixels in from the left hand side. Each “dot” is 6 x 6 pixels. The HQ “flag” is drawn 4 pixels in from the left, and 3 from the top, and measures 4 x 8 (w x h). The size indicators are drawn centered (max of 38 pixels wide), 1 to 11 pixels from the top.

Given that folks may use different sized symbols, I think maybe we’ll make that more flexible somehow... but that will have to wait until I can get these other things taken care of.

[Don Maddox]

Okay, this means that making the red force units diamond shaped like real OPFOR symbols is out for now. Since I can't control how this extra data appears there is no way around that. the second problem is that both red and blue use the same symbol sets. The program simply colors in the right color. If I change the symbols to diamond shape, then the blue force will also appear that way. For now the unit symbols will just have to remain the way they are. :rolleyes: