ATF: An Idea...

[CPangracs]

I am currently collecting GHQ minis of all the units used in Raging Tiger. I want to be able to set-up my scenarios prior to committing them to the computer.

I was thinking that a well-painted GHQ mini, with good lighting and photographed from overhead, would look awesome in ATF!

If there are any players out there who wold like me to attempt this with the pieces I use for RT, give me a shout!

Curt

[Ivan Rapkinov]

ooh, tabletop wargaming :)

me likes :)

though, might have to get GHQs permissions :)

[Scully]

To be honest, I prefer NATO symbols in ATF and never use the images, but it sounds like a pretty cool idea.

As far as I'm concerned, you could have cardboard cutouts as images and I'd be happy smacking around the red bastards... :)

[CPangracs]

To be honest, I prefer NATO symbols in ATF and never use the images, but it sounds like a pretty cool idea.

As far as I'm concerned, you could have cardboard cutouts as images and I'd be happy smacking around the red bastards... :)
Have you tried my Operational Symbol pieces for ATF?

[kbluck]

I sort of lukewarmly oppose the use of "realistic" graphic images in ATF, although I have made a few of my own mainly to honor precedent, because IMHO they'll never really look very good. Images that small are always going to look cartoonish. The pixel density of a typical computer screen just isn't there. Part of the problem is the map scale; even at max map zoom a typical ATF tank piece is going to work out to about 100m long. At realistic spacings, they're going to overlap. Good animation would go a long way towards improving the appeal, but ATF's facilities are primitive. The vehicles like tanks are bad enough with their twitching turrets, but the dismounts are even worse, static as they are. And the use of color keying rather than a proper alpha channel makes everything very jagged when rotated, since edge dithering becomes impossible without causing the dreaded "pink border".

Even in a game like Close Combat, which had a lot more attention to appearance and animation and a much closer map scale, you can see that the tanks and men were deliberately "oversized" because you just can't make the detail look good any smaller.

Another problem specific to ATF is the variable zoom of the icons themselves. If you haven't noticed, "100%" is actually 50%. If there was no stretching, you could carefully hand-optimize your images to look better, but given that you don't know what the stretch is going to be, and that usually it will not be 100% in any case, it is almost impossible to optimize the bitmaps.

I personally would design a game of this sort to use only graphic icons, which don't carry expectations of photorealism and therefore don't disappoint when they get a bit jagged or don't match the map scale, can have a clearly demarked center point, and are easier to tell apart on a cluttered screen. They don't have to be NATO-style icons; stylized tanks and whatnot would be fine, too, just so long as they don't try to look like real tanks. In this sense, Curt, I think you're on the right track by not trying to simulate a "God's-eye view".

--- Kevin

[CPangracs]

Well, if you looked at the "pictures" I have released as a taste of Raging Tiger, then you have already seen the type of graphic I'm using in the game. I'm hoping it is successful, but if not, I may create a "patched" database with new vehicle bitmaps to more closely resemble the regular ATF icons. I have been doing some other experimentation with units and some faux shading, with pretty good results.

[Jarhead]

CPangracs where are the pics located that you have made for Raging Tiger?

[Scully]

Have you tried my Operational Symbol pieces for ATF?

I'm not sure what you're talking about...where do I get them?

[CPangracs]

CPangracs where are the pics located that you have made for Raging Tiger?
Here are some...

http://www.pangracs.com/RagingTiger/Vehicles/Teaser.htm

[CPangracs]

I'm not sure what you're talking about...where do I get them?Get them here: http://www.pangracs.com/ATF/1056476841.zip

Please read the readme file before applying the new data and database!

Curt

[kbluck]

Just out of curiosity, is there a specific reason the icons aren't rotated, or you just didn't have the means to do it efficiently at the time?

--- Kevin

[CPangracs]

Just out of curiosity, is there a specific reason the icons aren't rotated, or you just didn't have the means to do it efficiently at the time?

--- Kevin
Why in the world would you rotate operational symbols? If you are talking about the Raging Tiger icons, it was done on purpose.

[Jarhead]

:cool: Nice pics, Thanks!

[kbluck]

Why in the world would you rotate operational symbols?

In overlays I've seen, the icons are often drawn so that they face the same direction as the expected orientation of the real elements. ATF SITTEMPs tend to be drawn like that, for example.

On the other hand, sometimes icons are always drawn "right side up", with a "vector" line to indicate facing. Naval and air icons are typically done that way, for example.

So, I was just curious if you "meant" to do it like that. Apparently, you did.

--- Kevin

[CPangracs]

In overlays I've seen, the icons are often drawn so that they face the same direction as the expected orientation of the real elements. ATF SITTEMPs tend to be drawn like that, for example.

On the other hand, sometimes icons are always drawn "right side up", with a "vector" line to indicate facing. Naval and air icons are typically done that way, for example.

So, I was just curious if you "meant" to do it like that. Apparently, you did.

--- Kevin
Yes, I did,...however, I have never seen opsymbols even drawn other than right-side up! Just my experience of drawing op overlays in manuever bn's. Maybe they do that at levels far above that. Also, if you look at the NATO symbols in ATF, that is the model I used.

[Scully]

Get them here: http://www.pangracs.com/ATF/1056476841.zip

Please read the readme file before applying the new data and database!

Curt

Thanks Curt. I'll give them a try.

Brian

[Scully]

Curt,

Quick question. Can these be used in an original scenario or are they for new scenarios only?

Thanks,
Brian

[CPangracs]

Curt,

Quick question. Can these be used in an original scenario or are they for new scenarios only?

Thanks,
Brian
I built the database right after ATF was released. They work with the original database scenarios, but none of the custom databases, unless someone wants to port them, which is a very time-consuming effort.