What nations would you like most to see added to the database?

[Don Maddox]

I'm curious which equipment is most in demand from users. Chinese? British? Which are you you looking forward to most?

Considering the huge amount of work involved in adding new vehicles and weapons to the existing database, it seems likely that it is going to be some time before all the weapons systems we want are added. Do you think we should start with the basic Western nations first (Canada, France, UK, etc) or with potential opponents (North Korea, Iran, China, India, etc)?

[MikeSinn]

I think Israel would be a logical add. If their force mix were added to the database, it would be fairly easy to recreate a wide range of engagments using the existing Syrian, Iraqi and Iranian entries.

Thanks,
Mike

[tws71669]

some generic units covering local millita (Somali, chechyan, etc?) or guerilla units that could serve as any brushfire conflict's primary antagonist... wouldn't have to be a specific country but at least gives us some extra options when designing scens.

[cbelva]

I agree, I think that Israel should be one of the first to be added.

[meade95]

While I would like to see more of the Basic Western Nations like the (Uk, Cananda, etc)...I kind of think for gameplay it would be best to start off with more potential enemy units for starters....

Those either being N.Korea & China......While I also agree about Nations like Iran and Guerilla units...these can kind of be made already using the old sovit weapons...(which most use today)...

[Don Maddox]

some generic units covering local millita (Somali, chechyan, etc?) or guerilla units that could serve as any brushfire conflict's primary antagonist... wouldn't have to be a specific country but at least gives us some extra options when designing scens.
That's a good idea. I'll pass it along to Scott and the team! :thumup:

[RedMike]

Let's not forget the IDF! I also would very much like to see Germany, Canada, and UK.

RedMike

[Mace]

...but then again I'm biased. :D

[Ivan Rapkinov]

...but then again I'm biased. :D
I second that :D

with our ASLAVs, Super M113s and Leo AS1s we'd be sure to at least be able to blow up some trucks before getting wiped out :)

seriously, I wouldn't mind some generic units added - ie, Generic East European, Generic Sub-Saharan africa, Generic South American and so forth. Plus an expnaded list of weapons so we get the most common (G3, G36, Famas, L85A2, Steyr AUG etc etc) modern weapons (rather than just the the common US and Russian ones) to create user countries (a la Australia ;) )

for example - give me a Steyr AUG, an upgraded M113 and a a few bits and pieces and I can create a full aussie ORBAT without probs. But with this, I can add to other countries - ie an upgraded M113 can be a M113AS4 (the aussie version), an IDF Zelda, a Polish, Czech etc etc whatever.

hence I wouldn't go for country specific weapons, but rather the most common weapons out there, so that (like TacOps), if you want to create an Aussie orbat, you can swap in weapons from say a US unit (Javelin), German (Mog), British (Perentie) etc etc so even though the weapon set has no particular owner, it can be given to whomever the User wishes to create :)

[Don Maddox]

I second that :D

with our ASLAVs, Super M113s and Leo AS1s we'd be sure to at least be able to blow up some trucks before getting wiped out :)


You have some specific ideas for scenarios in mind?

[Ivan Rapkinov]

You have some specific ideas for scenarios in mind?
of course :)

East Timor 1999 "what if" the Kopassus TNI units had* launched cross border raids, and been backed by more substantial mech forces. The Oecussi Enclave op is worth a look in itself.

Plenty of SASR ops from Afghanistan.

and cross over of my ATF scn/campaign Aus/UK/Canada vs Zimbabwe/South Africa ("Keeping the Commonwealth alive" - CHOGM decides to "regime change" Robert Mugabe - 'bout bloody time too) though the POA version will most likely be finished first given map making delays with ATF.

plus "training" scns - ADF vs USMC @ Shoalwater Bay training area (Ex Croc)

given the cross platform nature of the ADF, a couple of small additions would make it possible :)

* The Indonesians did launch cross border raids, but they were kept very quiet - an account of an aussie HQ det. defending itself against a combined militia/KOPASSUS force was published in the Aus. Defence Journal I think. The Author was advocating changing the ratio of assault to support troops per platoon.

[RedMike]

Hey Ivan that sounds really good, can't wait to try 'em out.

RedMike OUT

[Don Maddox]

...and cross over of my ATF scn/campaign Aus/UK/Canada vs Zimbabwe/South Africa ("Keeping the Commonwealth alive" - CHOGM decides to "regime change" Robert Mugabe - 'bout bloody time too) though the POA version will most likely be finished first given map making delays with ATF.
You have topographic maps for this region? How large a scale are we talking about here? Brigade? Battalion?

[Ivan Rapkinov]

You have topographic maps for this region? How large a scale are we talking about here? Brigade? Battalion?
oops missed this one :)

have 1:50,000 topos of northern Sth Africa (which in my mind is good enough for Zimbabwe), might not be good enough, but given the size of the fight (Coys/Btns), this shouldn't be a problem.

have more 1:12500 topos of Aussie areas of involvement (Ie Timor), but a lot more "what if?s" than actuall historical fights.

[Rocky]

...but then again I'm biased. :D

Great idea! We can take our tank out against an invader!!! :bounce:

[HPS]

Sturm has already begun adding new weapons to the databases, although they probably won’t be ready for a couple of weeks. In this next iteration he is planning on adding German and Israeli equipment, and possibly a few things from perhaps Canada and China. After that, we’ll probably take a break from database work for a while to let the dust settle.

-Scott

[Don Maddox]

With those nations - plus what we already have - we'll be able to cook up a pretty wide selection of battles.

[tws71669]

Is there any chance for some U.N. units that model current TOE/OOB ? I don't know how "different" they would be from our current choices but I would like to know if they will have a role in POA2.
Thanks.

[Joel]

Hi Gentlemen,

I'm a complete newbie here and have recently been tempted by POA2, being a former satisfied player of POA1, a long time ago !


Two issues are currently preventing me from ordering POA2 :

- Bugs : far too many bugs seem to have gotten through the testing phase of this product, however news that a patch is worked on are encouraging and I'm confident that most bugs will be solved with the upcoming patch. So issue 1 seems to be closed soon.

- Database limitations : like many wargamers, I like playing with units from my country (France), that's what appealed to me in POA1 and what I found lacking in POA2 after the database editing confusion was cleared. So it's clear now that French (or UK, German, or whatever country) units will be in only if the developper feels like it. From a previous post from Scott I had the impression that some French equipment was considered for being included in a not-so-distant future upgrade for POA2 (see the "What's the plan for POA2 after the first patch?" thread).
Now, from Scott's post above, I get the impression that French equipment is totally discarded, could Scott or anyone else provide any additional info about this ?

I very much want to like this game, but I'm sure that absence of French equipment would be a showstopper for me, so I figured it would be better to ask before buying !

Thanks,
Joël

[XRAY]

Joel,

I think it’s early days to say what’s going to finally end up in the Database.

The primary and most important goal is to get a stable running simulation which is completely bug free. We can then look to new maps and databases to enhance the game.

As for purchasing or not I’m afraid it’s entirely up to you, read the numerous post’s and then decide.

Some pretty knowledgeable wargamers are sticking with the initial bug chasing period and if you don’t have the game you cant participate in this excellent forum.

[tws71669]

Bonjour mon ami et bienvenue ! Pour répondre à la question, vous pouvez toujours ajouter vos unités et pays gagnés mais ne pouvez pas changer les données de celles existantes. Pourquoi est-ce que vous ne faites pas quelques unités françaises et ne les partagez pas ? Ami d'adieu. - T
:D

[Don Maddox]

I imagine it won't be too hard to persuade Greg to slip in a few of the more common French types like the Leclerc, however, I don't think the French OOB in its entirety is going to be at the top of the list. Germans, Israelis, etc will probably come first (me talking, not HPS).

It's a huge amount of work to add each individual weapons system and adding entire OOB's is a gigantic undertaking. Most other wargames only have a few nationalities included with the initial CD. I hope we get as many as possible, but I also understand that it does take time to do it right.

[Joel]

Thanks for your answers !

TWS,
I'm not sure to get what you mean. My understanding is that players cannot add new weapons nor weaponss systems like MBTs or IFVs in POA2, so how could I create some units ?

Don,
I know what lies behind a full TOE, I've worked on "official" French TOEs for SPWAW v1.0 and Combat Mission Afrika Korps, and on a custom French TOE for SP2 back then. That's why I mentioned only French "equipment" and not "formations" ! ;)

Actually I guess that only 2 MBTs (Leclerc and AMX30B2), 2 APCs (VAB + VAB 20mm), 1 IFV (AMX10P), 1 "wheeled light tank" (AMX10RC) and 1 or 2 inf squad types would be a good start. Milan, Eryx and HOT missiles would be shared with German/Canadian TOEs.
By the way, would the design team accept submission of new equipments done with V1.0 and consider including them in future upgrades, since I understand V1.0 let slip a possibility to edit the database ?

Finally, Don, thanks for maintaining this site, it is THE source for all things about POA2, and if this game has some success, you and the guys here will have a big part in it ! :)

Joël

[Don Maddox]

Thanks for your answers !

TWS,

I'm not sure to get what you mean. My understanding is that players cannot add new weapons nor weaponss systems like MBTs or IFVs in POA2, so how could I create some units ?
Well, here is the deal. You're not supposed to be able to do it, however, the capability is there due to a bug in the release version. For all intents and purposes though, it doesn't matter because the patched versions will only run with the updated data tables from HPS. So in effect, you can't add completely new weapons systems to the database unless, of course, you plan on playing with an unpatched version of the game. Not really an option.

What we can do is gather all the information necessary to add a new weapon and send it off to Greg. If the information is reliable and all he has to do it simply input it into the database, I can't see why HPS would object to that.

Actually I guess that only 2 MBTs (Leclerc and AMX30B2), 2 APCs (VAB + VAB 20mm), 1 IFV (AMX10P), 1 "wheeled light tank" (AMX10RC) and 1 or 2 inf squad types would be a good start. Milan, Eryx and HOT missiles would be shared with German/Canadian TOEs.

By the way, would the design team accept submission of new equipments done with V1.0 and consider including them in future upgrades, since I understand V1.0 let slip a possibility to edit the database ?


I think they would, although I can't speak for HPS. I'm also not sure how they would release these though. Scott might prefer not to release additional TO&Es in piecemeal fashion, instead preferring to release them when the whole set was done. Nevertheless, providing HPS with quality data would greatly speed up the process of adding new systems I should think. Again, me talking not HPS.

Finally, Don, thanks for maintaining this site, it is THE source for all things about POA2, and if this game has some success, you and the guys here will have a big part in it!

Joël
It's my pleasure. Thanks for the kind remarks.

[Joel]

Thanks for your reply, Don.

I think I will give it a try, but first I will wait for the most glaring problems to be solved, just to make sure that HPS' commitment to debug is genuine and long-lasting.


Joël

[Gregory Smith]

Hello all,

I'm the guy who adds weapons systems to the database. I can tell you I've got a few more British systems to do (per user request) and then I'm going to be adding German, French, Israeli.

Seems like a lot of Aussies here, might do them next. :)

I'm going to have to think about "generic" opponents, not sure why you couldn't just use Iranians or Iraqis for just about any of those, except as a naming issue. But we'll see.

Take care,
-Greg
HPS Sims

[tws71669]

Hello all,

I'm the guy who adds weapons systems to the database. I can tell you I've got a few more British systems to do (per user request) and then I'm going to be adding German, French, Israeli.

Seems like a lot of Aussies here, might do them next. :)

I'm going to have to think about "generic" opponents, not sure why you couldn't just use Iranians or Iraqis for just about any of those, except as a naming issue. But we'll see.

Take care,
-Greg
HPS Sims
So really we could just create say, a UN peace keeping force which would use equipment from other related countries as an example... if I follow your logic which I think makes things easier.
Then it becomes more of a what units are in the database more than what countries... is that right?

And welcome to the forums, it's good to see more of POA2 and Co. showing up.

-T

[Ivan Rapkinov]

Hello all,

Seems like a lot of Aussies here, might do them next. :)



not a lot - just a very vocal minority ;)

[Old&Slow]

Hello all,

I'm the guy who adds weapons systems to the database. I can tell you I've got a few more British systems to do (per user request) and then I'm going to be adding German, French, Israeli.

Seems like a lot of Aussies here, might do them next. :)

I'm going to have to think about "generic" opponents, not sure why you couldn't just use Iranians or Iraqis for just about any of those, except as a naming issue. But we'll see.

Take care,
-Greg
HPS Sims

Hi Greg & welcome !

How about some Vietnam era aircraft, Skyraider, F100, F105, etc. , as well as Russian/ChiCom. light and medium AA from that period please :D

[Gregory Smith]

[QUOTE=tws71669]So really we could just create say, a UN peace keeping force which would use equipment from other related countries as an example... if I follow your logic which I think makes things easier.
Then it becomes more of a what units are in the database more than what countries... is that right?

Hi,
Yes, basically. If you wanted to, you could give M1A2 tanks to a Soviet unit with the editor.......or give T-90s to an American Unit. And since the UN troops will almost always come from a country armed with US or CIS weapons, I'm pretty confident you could make up a UN contigent pretty easily.

And welcome to the forums, it's good to see more of POA2 and Co. showing up.

Thanks. I won't be able to come by very often, but I"ll try to stick the head in the door at least weekly.

-Greg
HPS Sims

[Gregory Smith]

Hi Greg & welcome !

How about some Vietnam era aircraft, Skyraider, F100, F105, etc. , as well as Russian/ChiCom. light and medium AA from that period please :D

Hi,
I like your handle :) Feeling that way myself.

Unfortunately, with Vietnam era stuff, that's at the bottom of the priority list, because it takes HOURs just to add a single weapon system sometimes, and I've got the Germans, French, and Israelis to do first. So I can't promise when/if I'd add these, not to mention they don't really fit the time frame. I'm pretty sure the 57mm AAA S-60 is already in there, I personally ran into some of those in Iraq.....if I didn't include those I goofed up. Will go verify....in the meantime, I will get back to the grindstone and try to add what I can.

-Greg "Sturmer" Smith
HPS Sims

[Old&Slow]

Hi Greg

Yep, O & S is a fact of life here :)

Understood on the Vietnam era being low on the list. Still, the depth the Game offers would seem to allow the re-creation of almost any Historical operation, at any scale. :cool:

Other then a few missing Weapons Systems, is there is any reason the game couldn`t be used for that period ?

Thanks !

[Joel]

I'm the guy who adds weapons systems to the database. I can tell you I've got a few more British systems to do (per user request) and then I'm going to be adding German, French, Israeli.



Wow, that's good news for me about the French systems, thank you for clarifying the matter !

Looks like I will have to buy the game soon, probably as soon as the first patch is out and makes the game playable.

And if you need additional info about French equipment or TOE, I'll be glad to help... :crosseye:

Cheers,
Joël