View Full Version : POA2: Problem with Scenerio Creation
I have been experimenting with the scenerio creation process and think I have encountered a bug.
The test scenerios I have created all have Player 1 as Human control and Player 2 is always set to AI control. In those scenerios where Player 2 is set to be the attacking player, the AI never deploys it's forces on the playable map. It correctly places any flanking forces and when set to defend, it also places it's forces correctly. It is only when attacking that this setup fails. I have verified that no Player 2 forces are present once the scenerio begins by turning FOW off.
Has anyone else experienced this problem? I have forwarded a note to HPS support asking if this is a bug or if I am doing something wrong. I will post any responses I receive.
Thanks,
Mike
MikeSinn,
I was going to start looking into scenerio creation myself (considering some of the playability within the game is in the need of fixing /patching)....
As long as we all keep catching these bugs....I"m sure HPS will work hard at fixing them.
Okay, I've tried building (doing a walk-thru more or less) a simple scenario...using the scenario editor.
It definitely looks like it has a wealth of ability associated with it. But a manual / help file is "definitely" needed. This is a must by HPS in my opinion. I think this is a bigger disapointment then even all the bugs.....How do you ship a game with only 7 simple scenario's.....with the rap being you hope those in the customer field will make new scenario's....then don't even put out a help file to go along with the scenario editor? (and reading on another post were Scott or HPS acts as if they are not sure if a Help file / manual will be put on on the POA-2 editor is even less assuring of this game)...
On to some questions with the editor.
Under Scenario Creation.
1. What does "reset to start" option mean?
2. Under Initial set up conditions....many of these buttons are locked? Is this a bug. For example "Scenario duration time" can't be moved off of 30 min??
Plus many of the Nation default values are locked??
3. Under "Force Selection"....What does "set force size" mean? Also what is the difference between manual or generated? In that some options that should be open (unlocked) you would think if clicking "manual" are in fact the opposite.....
4. To include aircraft in a scenario...how does this work? I mean certain aircraft...say you want F-18's on CAS mission. Is the only way to have F-18's is to make an F-18 unit in TOE? (inside of the POA-Dataview).... It seems if you add aircraft all you get is 2 AC-130 gunships?
5.When you go to use a MAP....how is this actually done? (Is it nothing more then adding one of the included maps) Should I use the CAI file on the prompt or no?
6. With regard to the "Pre-scenario..Start disclousre results"....How do I adjust these?
7. In order to use/place differing units within a scenario....does it not seem like one should make all new custom units within the dataview....just in order to "know" which units you are actually placing...Because of how many of the units are named within TOE (as is)...this does not actually help with knowing which units you are actually placing...(considering there is no print-out in the manual for the default units that come with the game).
8. At what point in the creation phase do I get to set turn rates and pulse rates? (is it right near the end....I haven't got that far yet)...
9. I think a simple mountains terrian type map is needed...Just a side note.
I do like the option of being able to adjust the differing "values" for given units within the scenario editor....for different units....Those values being "light discipline", "Training", Comm Discipline, Etc.
This will help in adjusting the performace / capabilities of different units....But it would be much easier just to adjust these in the weapons editor itself...if that would be an option. (and much less time-consuming to do it once there and not with each unit during every new scenario creation).
Don Maddox
25 Jan 04, 23:18
I think editing of the "nations" is done with the dataview utilty, not in the scenario editor.
Although Scott is planning to release some additional info on the scenario creation process (I think...), like most wargames the community will probably have to get involved at some point and do some tutorials of our own. It's obvious that none of us have a firm enough grasp on the system yet to do this.
Don,
I understand the editing of "nations/forces" is /can be done in the Dataview....but when you go to create a scenario...during the "initial set-up conditions" options....There is also nation values there (with arrow indicators for adjusting for this specific mission) that are locked...
And also within this pop-up (initial set-up conditions) many of the items / buttons are locked...for example "scenario duration time"...Which is set to "30 minutes".....This has to be adjustable, yet it is locked.
I am also very interested in questions #4 & #7 from above...In that should we be going through and making all new "custom units" within TOE....because if we plan to make scenario's.....this is going to be the first phase for all of us....So we have all "units / weapons" avaliable to bein with....As of now, only a certain number are within the TOE (as is / default that comes with the game).
Don Maddox
25 Jan 04, 23:54
I am also very interested in questions #4 & #7 from above...In that should we be going through and making all new "custom units" within TOE....because if we plan to make scenario's.....this is going to be the first phase for all of us....So we have all "units / weapons" avaliable to bein with....As of now, only a certain number are within the TOE (as is / default that comes with the game).
Are you talking about adding additional weapons systems, or are you talking about using the existing weapons systems to create unique units for the scenario? Once the editor is locked so that we can't edit weapons values and/or add custom weapons, I thought we would retain the ability to create unique unit mixes for a particular scenario?
I'm not sure why the other stuff is locked. Scott is going to have to answer a lot of this stuff. :confused:
Are you talking about adding additional weapons systems, or are you talking about using the existing weapons systems to create unique units for the scenario? Once the editor is locked so that we can't edit weapons values and/or add custom weapons, I thought we would retain the ability to create unique unit mixes for a particular scenario?
I'm not sure why the other stuff is locked. Scott is going to have to answer a lot of this stuff. :confused:
Don,
Yes, I think once the weapon systems are locked...we still will have the ability to create unique units (based of different weapon systems which come within the POA-2 database)...However, my point is to place these units are we going to have to go into the TOE and make /assign them there?
In that right now, there isn't a single F-18 or F15 or F-14 or B-52, etc as part of the TOE.....so when you go to create a scenario...Is there another way to place one of these aircraft within that scenario (since they aren't listed within the TOE)....
If there isn't another way (and I haven't found one...seems like a unit needs to be within the TOE)...this means (and is fine, would just like to know)...you will need to go into the TOE and make a unit called "F-18 Squadron"....which then would consist of any number of F-18 between 2 & 14 I would guess)...
And if this is the case, then you would need to go make all sorts of these unique units...consisting of F-14, F-18, etc......Because while all these weapon systems are "within the database"...they are not all in the TOE...
Make sense?
Don Maddox
26 Jan 04, 00:09
Yes, I see what you're getting at. My understanding is that Scott left most of the OOB/TOE work to us. Not because he didn't want to do it, but because there are simply too many different possible combinations to program. If I'm not mistaken (and I may be) scenario authors will have to do that part of it themselves. Similar to creating a "unit" for TOAW.
Yes, I see what you're getting at. My understanding is that Scott left most of the OOB/TOE work to us. Not because he didn't want to do it, but because there are simply too many different possible combinations to program. If I'm not mistaken (and I may be) scenario authors will have to do that part of it themselves. Similar to creating a "unit" for TOAW.
Don,
Thanks for that answer. And that does make sense...in that we would all want to "tweak" most of the default units anyway...I was just trying to find out if there was another way to place units within a scenario...other then from the TOE...
Making different units within the TOE...is half the fun anyway....So, I'll get to work.
Are others getting this "bug" when using the TOE (or am I doing something wrong)...
When making a new unit...the TOE always puts a "default tank" in with the new unit....I can then type in "0" in the amount number next to "default Tank"....but it still shows up as part of the unit (though, 0 being assinged).
Meade,
From my experimentation with the scenerio creation process, I think I can answer some of your original questions.
1. It appears that the "Reset to start" option allows the player to reposition units, IPs, obsticles, mines.... each time the scenerio starts.
2. When creating a scenerio, make sure to have your "Expert Level", under preferences set to 3. Anything below 3 seems to prevent modifications of certain parameters during the creation process. When I have my level set to three, I am able to edit all the options.
3. Force size seems to dictate the type of forces you can initialy select from. For example, if it is set to Platoon, then all the subsequent force selections will be at a platoon level.
Manual means that you select the forces used in a scenerio. If this is chosen, then the force size level isn't relevent as you have access to the full range of units. If it is set to Generated, then you can select the default force starting size and the computer will generate the forces for you
4. Sorry, I have not been able to figure out how to add specific unit types to a scenerio.
5. Using the CAI file for a specific map seems to greatly reduce the scenerio set up time. If you select no, the computer will be prompt you to set the aggression level appropriate for each side and then recompile the CAI. This takes a VERY LONG TIME on my pc. Then again I am running POA2 on a system below recommended specs, so I probably should be happy that it simply runs...
6. I believe these values can be adjusted under the "Edit Nation setting" button on the first of the scenerio creation screens. The associated pop-up window has several edit boxes where you can adjust things like Human Int, Recon values....
7. Haven't a clue...
8. Again, no idea.
Thanks
Mike
MikeSinn,
Thanks for your answers....all the info helps.
With regard to my question #4 (custom units in a new scenario)...I think I know how to do this (or at least one way to do it). Is to simply create a new unit (custom unit) within the TOE (from within dataview)....
However, my thoughts here was there had to be any easier way....however after Don's comments and looking through it more on my own...it seems, there really isn't a easier way.....We just have to make all "new" units from within TOE.....from differing aircraft (F-18, F-15, etc)...to differing helicopter packages (Cobra's, Huey's, etc)....and also within each one of these new "units"...also having differing sizes of these "same" units......So, it seems for say the F-18....One will probably have 2 different units (or 3) for F-18's. One unit with say a "two ship" flight....and another with a larger squadron (say 8 to 12 F-18's).....
And this process above will have to be duplicated for any number of weapon systems.....(and of course some of the default units will work very well also)...
When you say have the level set to 3 (to have all options open)...is this to 3 on both sides??
Also, is anyone else getting the "Default Tank unit".....whenever they go to create a new "custom" unit within TOE...
Don Maddox
26 Jan 04, 11:35
I'll think you are correct Mike. Also, my understanding is that it doesn't "harm" anything to edit the OOB as this information simply tells POA2 which unit combinations to load with a particular scenario. It's not like editing the weapons database which could lead to all sort of incompatibility issues.
MikeSinn,
When you say have the level set to 3 (to have all options open)...is this to 3 on both sides??
Also, is anyone else getting the "Default Tank unit".....whenever they go to create a new "custom" unit within TOE...
Meade95,
You don't set the "Expert Level" for each side. I believe you are thinking of the FOW setting, which can also be set to 3. :confused:
The Expert Setting can be found in the "General" tab of the preference window. It should be the first set of Radio buttons on that page (if my memory serves me correctly). This value is set only once and controls what level of user interaction is required vs. what is controlled by the AI. The higher the Expert setting, the more the player has direct control over.
Let me know if this still doesn't correct the problem with "locked" options during the scenerio creation process.
Thanks
Mike
Meade95,
You don't set the "Expert Level" for each side. I believe you are thinking of the FOW setting, which can also be set to 3. :confused:
The Expert Setting can be found in the "General" tab of the preference window. It should be the first set of Radio buttons on that page (if my memory serves me correctly). This value is set only once and controls what level of user interaction is required vs. what is controlled by the AI. The higher the Expert setting, the more the player has direct control over.
Let me know if this still doesn't correct the problem with "locked" options during the scenerio creation process.
Thanks
Mike
Mike, Yes, I figured that out....What you were talking about with Level 3...and yes, this did open up more options...however I then got this error...
"Access Violation at address 0054A011 in the module "POA2.exe" Read of address 00000000."
So when I set it for Level 3...I get that error and it locks up....However if I use Levels 1 or 2....it works fine???
Mike, Yes, I figured that out....What you were talking about with Level 3...and yes, this did open up more options...however I then got this error...
"Access Violation at address 0054A011 in the module "POA2.exe" Read of address 00000000."
So when I set it for Level 3...I get that error and it locks up....However if I use Levels 1 or 2....it works fine???
I guess I have been lucky in not hitting this Access Violation error. I have always had my perferences set to Level 3 since starting with the game (nothing like jumping in with both feet...).
What O/S are you using and do you have any other programs running at the same time? Did the problem go away when you applied the Beta patch?
Don was kind enough to email me a copy, I just haven't had a chance to install it.
Thanks,
Mike
MikeSinn,
I've done a complete reinstall....so I haven't checked yet again. Don also was nice enough to get the beta version to me (haven't had time to installt that either)...
I'm going to try and build on level 3 before the patch...see if the reinstall fixed the issue....then move on to adding the patch....
I'm using XP....
Talked with Scott about it....he isn't sure yet.....but will look into it...he suggested a reinstall also...
Rich also let me know...that a reinstall will be needed before applying the "official patch"...once it comes out......if we have been using the "beta" version...
Okay, I've tried building (doing a walk-thru more or less) a simple scenario...using the scenario editor.
4. To include aircraft in a scenario...how does this work? I mean certain aircraft...say you want F-18's on CAS mission. Is the only way to have F-18's is to make an F-18 unit in TOE? (inside of the POA-Dataview).... It seems if you add aircraft all you get is 2 AC-130 gunships?
7. In order to use/place differing units within a scenario....does it not seem like one should make all new custom units within the dataview....just in order to "know" which units you are actually placing...Because of how many of the units are named within TOE (as is)...this does not actually help with knowing which units you are actually placing...(considering there is no print-out in the manual for the default units that come with the game).
Meade95 and all:
I was playing around with the scenerio creation process and think I have found an easy way to add custom units to a scenerio without using the Dataviewer. This may be a bit difficult to explain so I have attached a couple screenshots to help.
First, when creating a scenerio you must either manually select the forces or make sure the checkbox to "edit generated forces" is checked.
The first relevent screen is the Force selection screen. I found that you can right click on a unit in the "Current forces" display box and select "edit" to pull up the unit display box (see attachment 1).
From the unit display box, if you left click in the Wpn Sys box, a new window pops up (see attachment 2) where you can change the unit to a different type (say a AC-130 to an A-10). Once you click OK, you will return to the Unit display window where you change the quantity, the loadout, and just about any other value.
Hope this helps and is what you were looking for.
Thanks,
Mike
MikeSinn,
That looks like it will work much eaiser...when a situation comes up that you want to add a different unit.....now you won't have to go back out and make the unit in the TOE.....you can just place it from there...
I haven't yet tried to make a senario on Level 3.....so glad to know that option is avaliable there...
Thanks
I have been experimenting with the scenerio creation process and think I have encountered a bug.
The test scenerios I have created all have Player 1 as Human control and Player 2 is always set to AI control. In those scenerios where Player 2 is set to be the attacking player, the AI never deploys it's forces on the playable map. It correctly places any flanking forces and when set to defend, it also places it's forces correctly. It is only when attacking that this setup fails. I have verified that no Player 2 forces are present once the scenerio begins by turning FOW off.
Has anyone else experienced this problem? I have forwarded a note to HPS support asking if this is a bug or if I am doing something wrong. I will post any responses I receive.
Thanks,
Mike
I received the following email from Scott regarding my original query. It's great to hear that this has been identified, fixed and will be in the first patch.
Scott, keep up the good work!!!
Hi Mike,
Thank you very much for your report.
I was able to recreate the problem, and just got it taken care of. What was happening was that the program sometimes thought it was further along in the set-up process than it actually was, so it skipped the AI set-up completely.
The patch (which includes this fix) will be out in the next couple of days. In the meantime, I appreciate your patience, and if you have any other questions, comments, or reports, please let us know.
Thanks again!
-Scott
I have tried to build several scenarios using betabuild 7. Everything seems fine until the window following the force selections. Evertime I get this far I get a C++ Error. Has anyone else experienced this or am I doing something wrong. (Sent to Rich)
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