Ukrainian Partisans

[Palantir]

Someone please explain the "Ukrainian Partisan Uprising" event.
(game wise & historically if you like)
In the game (I'm the Allies) the Axis have just invaded Russia.

I suddenly find myself awash in Ukrainian's way to the rear. Not your ordinary partisans units but 2 monster Inf Corps & 1 good sized Cav Corps. They are with out question the largest Inf units in the game at 6-11. There are also 7 small inf brigades that appeared with them. They all popped up around Kiev and took over the lightly guarded city hex. And they are getting stronger.
:shock:

Once again was Stalin just blind to a massive build up of an Army superior to anything he had, in his own back yard? It says they are Axis "equiped" but the Germans are still way away.
I find it hard to believe that "partisans" are better equiped than the Red Army from whom they would in reality have to get/steal their equipment & supplies from.

[Kraut]

as soon as the Axis attacks Russia the axis player gets the small Ukrainian guerillas units. The big Inf. Ukrainian units appear with the occupation of Kiev and represent the huge numbers of ukrainian volunteers that joined the Wehrmacht to fight their oppressors.
I guess the guerilla units occupied Kiev ? Well, that's not as it is supposed to happen but why the hell did you leave your 2nd (third?? was Leningrad bigger?) biggest city undefended ?? ;)

[Chuck?]

I think one of the Ukraine infantry units doesn't appear in Kiev. Nonetheless the Soviet player can take advantage of this situation by surronding and destroying the Ukraine units. I don't believe they reconstitute so they will be gone forever when lost.

[Palantir]

Originally posted by Kraut
I guess the guerilla units occupied Kiev ? Well, that's not as it is supposed to happen but why the hell did you leave your 2nd (third?? was Leningrad bigger?) biggest city undefended ?? ;)

I didn't leave it unoccupied, I had 2 small units sitting there in "garrison", but who expects (unless you've play this before or something) a 5-10 Inf Corps+ to appear 10 hexes behind the frontline, which outclasses anything in the ENTIRE game? Another one then showed up plus more 1-2 guerilla units. Of course this is perfect timing as I attempt to move units to slow down Barbarossa. :cry:

I don't have a problem with partisan activites but am asking about the fact that 2 units larger & more powerful than anything else in the game are stronger (and getting stronger they are now 6-11's) than any units the parent country could even get. They are in fact now untouchable by Soviet troops (at their "great" proficency rating) unless I decide not to oppose the Axis attack from Rumania/Poland.

Just wondering.

[Chuck?]

The Ukraine Infantry unit should be out of supply so this is going to hinder it's ability in the long run to due too much damage.

[Wolfe Tone]

You could take it that these Ukrainians were Soviet units that rebelled against Stalin hence their better combat value than ordinary Partisans. Also they would have a better morale factor than Soviet units that stayed loyal in a situation where the Soviet Union is facing collapse. Makes for an interesting game anyway I'm sure.

[Mantis]

Also, if this is an older version of the game, those units should not be there, but show up anyways... They are originally meant to be German 'freebie' units for trying an EC game. (Some of the people in Russia hailed the Germans as 'saviors', but that didn't last too long after occupation policy had sunk in...) But back in the old versions, the entered the war even if you didn't do an Eastern Crusade.

I bleieve they're timed to show up in the first so many turns, but not at all later with a more 'standard' invasion. It's fixed in the new version. Also, some of the tiny partisans may still show up (can't remember exactly) but the big Ukraine force that shouldn't, won't.

[Mark Stevens]

I'd be interested to know which version this is.

What's meant to happen is that five very small Ukranian Guerillas and Irregular infantry units appear scattered over the Ukraine if the Russo-German war starts before turn 25, as there were still anti-Soviet partisans left over from the Russian Civil War. Since some are Guerillas under TOAWs definition, they will change hex control automatically. The Event that creates them should be cancelled after turn 25.

Secondly, if the Axis capture Kiev (at any time during the game) four 'Russian Volunteer' infantry and one cavalry corps will appear in the city, representing some of the 800,000 or so poorly equipped and trained (low proficiency) Russians who fought for, or at least provided security formations for, the Germans, either from ideological conviction, or to avoid the prison camps. These are similarly coloured to the assorted Muslim Rebels and Cossacks who appear if the Axis reach the general area of the Caucasus. Remember that a '4 - 3' Russian Volunteer unit on 25% proficiency and possibly out of supply isn't anything like a similarly sized Red Army unit on 60% proficiency in supply.

Unfortunately, it does mean that they'll also appear if the Ukranian Partisans take Kiev at any time: but being a horde of scattered '1 - 1's, they shouldn't be able to concentrate and knock out the fixed Kiev garrison unit before the Allied Player can rail at least one Soviet unit into the city.

I hope it doesn't spoil the game.

[Palantir]

Originally posted by Mark Stevens
I'd be interested to know which version this is.

I hope it doesn't spoil the game.

Hi Mark,
it's ver 1.5 and they appeared the 1st & 2nd turn after the DOW, I think T100.

There were 6 1-1's, 2 1-2's, 1 2-4 cav, and 2 6-11 Ukranian units around Kiev. :shock:

Fortunately they seem to be "slowly" weakening, but probably not enough before the Germans arrive.
Unfortunately not having planned to be fighting a huge army of 11 units suddenly so deep behind the lines I've been only able to throw a few units around them to contain their movements. As you know it's a bit of a struggle to delay the blitzing hordes of Germans, and "free" units are a rare commodity.

My opponet (MattB) has used them very "conservatively" as we both had a shock at their appearence. :rolleyes:
He's been content so far to just pillage the area around the city, where as he could have really messed up my defenses by striking out for Lvov, Odessa or Uman.

As for spoiling the game... that's sort of up for discussion.
My front lines are obviously weakened by having to find units to throw back and contain (notice I didn't say eliminate) these units. An 11 unit horde & 2 massive Corps running "freely" is something you don't surround or eliminate quickly with a bunch of 1-1 HQ's and Lt Inf.

But the Allies will never give up, never surrender. :nofear:

Kerry
:D

[Dan Neely]

1.5 was broken in that all of the ukrainians appeared even after the turn 25 cutoff for the white insurgents.

[Palantir]

Now in my game the "news" reports that Russian has declared war against Germany, (we're 6 turns into the German invasion on T104) and they have received "Ost" (?) forts as reinforcements.
Ah the war news just gets better and better for the Allies.

Hey Mark want a .sav of this?

[Dan Neely]

Originally posted by Kerry
Now in my game the "news" reports that Russian has declared war against Germany, (we're 6 turns into the German invasion on T104) and they have received "Ost" (?) forts as reinforcements.
Ah the war news just gets better and better for the Allies.


Cancelling the russian DoW option is even consuming because you can't cancel it directly but instead have to cancel all 3 options that create the TO (Sea LIon, Ankara threatened, turn 110-150) Instead of trying and using all the events needed, in 1.8 Mark just changed the TO text to include "Not if already at war". by clicking that button, the allies gave the germans several additional corps from the start, and IIRC several more PZ corps a few turns down the line.

[Sturlungur]

I've just entered Soviet soil in my quest for Lebensraum on turn 35.

The same turn 3 guerillas and 1 irregular appear scattered over Ukrania and a few more will join in the next turn.

Are we talking about the same units as were to enter if the Germans attack before turn 25?

[Sturlungur]

Oops. Forgot.
I'm playing version 1.7c