Indochina scn.

[frpaws4]

was wondering if a Indochina scn. could be made. I'm thinking of making a scn. (hypothetical) one where in 1976 before the Vietnamese-Sino war of 79, where Vietnam and Loas formed the Indochinese Union and formally became known as Indochina, the flag would be the Indochinese flag which looks like the old ARVN flag but instead of the red lines would be blue instead.
The premise would be upon unification of both nations and the building tensions with Cambodia which would lead to the invasion of said nation in 1978,tensions build with China as she see's Indochina as a threat to her own national security.
I don't know if this could be done but would it be possible? I have a map that could work as it shows all of Vietnam,Laos and Cambodia as well as portions of China,Thailand and Burma at 15 mile hexes.

Second thought France could have won the first Indochinese war in this hypthetical scn. and as such the nations of Vietnam, Laos could have formed the Indochinese Union thereby creating the nation of Indochina. As such the pretext for this scn. would then be the following:

In December of 1981, the Indochinese government announced, in the Berne Conference, that it claimed for itself the Chinese island-province of Hainan and the mainland Chinese province of Guangxi. These two territories -- administered by the French as part of Indochina from the end of the Sino-French War in 1885, but retroceded to China in 1969 along with Macau -- had long been in dispute between the Chinese and Indochinese, but the Indochinese demand that these provinces be immediately ceded to Hanoi's control destroyed the Berne Conference. By late January, the United Nations had managed to establish another conference, this one in Mexico City, but by this time the positions of both parties had hardened, as Indochina was secretly assured support from France.

[Tim McBride]

The problem I see with this is the fierce streak within the Vietnese to be an independet seperate people for the last 1000 years or so. Any union in Indochina would have to be ran by the Vietnese, IMHO.

_Tim

[frpaws4]

Tim, I agree with your statement, and I recall reading something a while back where the Vietnamese were attempting such a union with Loas and Cambodia, but for the life of me I can't remember where I read this. The capital of a unified Indochina would be Hanoi, so how would this have been done?
If the French granted independance to Vietnam in the framework of a unified Indochina with the Vietnamese in charge would this have worked and the whole Vietnam war been a mute point and not have occured, or would the South still have been an independant nation and the north and Loas been united into Indochina? But if the South remand independant then this would open another set of questions but either way why I even suggest the South still remaining independant is due to the fact that the British were in charge in the South

[frpaws4]

I would greatly appreciate it if more people would give me their input, please.

[Tim McBride]

A french granted with US support based Indo China with the Vietnese as a the dominat partner could be intresting. I would imagine problems instantly with China and Cambodia, as the Vietnese and Cambodians hate each other(In fact parts of Southern Vietnam are tradiontally Cambodian).

If a loose union could be worked out(Indepenant states working together) I can see a possible war with China headed its way.

Could be a very intresting scenario.

[frpaws4]

Thank you Tim for your help. One more question, having South Vietnam as independant from the nation of Indochina (Loas, Northern Vietnam) not work or could this add an intersting twist? I'm really throwing out alot of ideas and going with the best one.

[Tim McBride]

Well that would create the same problems as happened historically, IMO.
I think that the split is not needed if the french grant Independance earlier to a complete union. Ho Chi Minh would not be so firmly in bed with the soviets and would probally be willing to work it out.

[frpaws4]

Well that would create the same problems as happened historically, IMO.
I think that the split is not needed if the french grant Independance earlier to a complete union. Ho Chi Minh would not be so firmly in bed with the soviets and would probally be willing to work it out.

Thanks, this answers that question. So regarding their armed forces, would they be set on the French model and use French equiptment or a mixture of both French and Russian? Second what OOB would be good to use, the NVA or the Vietnamese national armee model, and would they have divison sized units or Brigade group size as the French do?

I'm kind of leaning toward a French setup, what do you think?

[Tim McBride]

Thanks, this answers that question. So regarding their armed forces, would they be set on the French model and use French equiptment or a mixture of both French and Russian? Second what OOB would be good to use, the NVA or the Vietnamese national armee model, and would they have divison sized units or Brigade group size as the French do?

I'm kind of leaning toward a French setup, what do you think?

Well If the french have left the will want to make something off this venture. I imagine the link with the Soviets will never happen. French and American equipment along the brigade size I would venture to guess. ( i would have to do a more detailed look to come up with anything concrete)

[frpaws4]

Well If the french have left the will want to make something off this venture. I imagine the link with the Soviets will never happen. French and American equipment along the brigade size I would venture to guess. ( i would have to do a more detailed look to come up with anything concrete)


Thank you Tim for your help in this matter. I agree with your above statement. Now for Cambodia, I would assume then that Cambodia would fight against unification with Indochina and try and remain an independant nation, so now the queston would be would she side more with China, negating the whole Khemer insurgency?
I would think that Indochina would be at war with Cambodia who in turn would seek closer ties with China because of this, which in the long run would cause the war with China, what is your thoughts on this? Maybe something along the lines of in 1978 Indochina invades Cambodia and as a result of the fighting China begins to move troops to the border with Indochina and there could be an event trigger that could set off a much larger war which could possibly involve France and even the US.