Human Team vs AI Combat Campaign? - WinSPWW2

[Double Deuce]

Would you be interested in a Combat Campaign where a team of players goes up against the AI in their battles? There would be a Chain of Command for the Human Team with different command levels (such as the Division, Regiment and Company commanders).

It would basically be a gmassive Multiplayer User Campaign where the GM (me) would run the AI team at the Operational Level, and detemrine any contact/engagement by using some elaborate form of Scenario Mission generation charts. I have some ideas and will expand on these further as I can get them worked out and down on paper.

Essentially, these charts would determine if your unit/forces encountered the enemy based on certain variables such as your force composition, terrain, are you advancing, stopped in place, is it a day or night turn and many other things. Once scenario's are determined I would create the scenario file for each player involved in combat and post it for them to play against the AI. While this would open the door to abuse by unscrupulous players :mad: since they could open the scenario files or replay turns it would definitely speed up the campaign as there would be no waiting on Pbem files to be passed back and forth.

Since I would be designing each scenario and would obviously have information on your setup I may employ guest enemy commanders when needed. What I would do is provide them copy of the map that will be used for a given scenario, give them some basic data and ask them to plot the artillery preplot hexes (if necessary of course), provide routes of attack/advance or to set up the enemy units if in the defense as well as obstacles, etc. Once they do that I will actually plot waypoints to try an replicate their intentions and depoy the players units based on their MOCAT files/movement orders. These guest commanders would be asked to do other things as well to keep things interesting and keep me out of to many key decisions during scenario creation.

The campaign would make use of team forums BUT they would be open to the public so everyone could follow along. Each player would be required to keep a running AAR of their battle in an appropriate thread (like what was done in the Island Civil War Campaign).

Well, what do you think? Would anyone consider taking part in something like this?

[mr_clark]

I think it would be an interesting idea.
Especially for larger turnaments. But then again many people will say how bad the AI is...

[Double Deuce]

Also, since there will not really be a team you are playing against and thus no need for extreme secrecy, I WILL be asking for volunteers to help me with some administrative tasks to get the ball rolling.

If any of you want to help with the WinSP Maps (we are talking 20-40 200x160 hex maps depending on the size of the campaign) I'd rather not have to design them completely alone so if at all possible I could use some help. You will be provided with screenshots and WinSP maps of areas to work on. Some of these may already have a base design completed, I may just need you to add in some trees, buildings and such to finalize them and give them some originality.

Also, if any of you have experience with MS Excel please speak up.

I'm not going to pile anything onto you unless you ask me too and please understand that any little bit would help. :smoke:

[Double Deuce]

I think it would be an interesting idea.
Especially for larger turnaments. But then again many people will say how bad the AI is...True, BUT I believe the WinSP engine is still being worked on for the final release. ;)

I will also do my best to script challenging scenarios. Some may be easy, some may be hopeless and force you to try and escape . . or die. :halo:

[mr_clark]

Well yeah, guess you'Re right.

Count me in. ;)

Hmm, I have no real idea about mapdesign in SP, tried it out once in SPMBT 1pointsomething but that was that.

As I use excel style programs (especially OpenOffice calc) for Uni related stuff, so I might be a help there, depending of what you want done...

[Double Deuce]

Hmm, I have no real idea about mapdesign in SP, tried it out once in SPMBT 1pointsomething but that was that.Actually, I'm working on a way around that part. I'm thinking about going with a hex based operations map (50x50 hexes = 2.5x2.5km). I will then create maps as they are needed so that will avoid the need for all maps being created up front. Also, I would like to say I am working on an extremely detailed scripting mechanism that will allow me to create the scenarios. I still have to create the scenario in the editor BUT this will determine unit types, number, placement and some Waypoint guidance. :smoke:

For those who are wondering, YES I am going in a completely new direction with the Combat Campaigns then what some of you may be used to or have read in the old AAR sites. This should be a way to include ALL players, consistently instead of only 2-3 on a team for a couple months at a time while the battles are being fought Pbem. I can also ADD in players during the campaign and include them right from the beginning.

The disadvantage is, playing against the AI really opens up the system to cheating, since you fight the scenario by yourself and report the results (along with posting AAR's as you play it).

[jadpanther]

DD,

I could give you a hand or I would be interested in trying something like this.

Jad

[Double Deuce]

Some more information on the project;

As I mentioned before, all players would be on a single team with assigned commands (probably at infantry company level). They would plan operations on larger map and using a system of charts and trigger criteria, an umpire would determine which players would become engaged with their "unit". Once contact was determined the umpire would create the necessary scenarios for them and they would play against the AI. I would then take the endgame reports and update all OOB's.

Enemy forces and reinforcements (for both sides) for each scenario would be pre-determined during the scenario creation process through an extensive use of tables. Enemy force size would be based on key terrain, some other charts and some force multiplier criteria.

It's loosely based on Solitaire Advanced Squad Leader but on a multi-player level where players actions are intertwined in the bigger picture.

I have to create all the charts and add in the WinSPWW2 equipment which is pretty time consuming. Then there are the rules that need to be put on paper that will be required to explain everything. :surprise:

As I get closer I will post more.

Also, at some point I will need to playtest this so I will be asking for 3-4 players to volunteer. During this time the rules will be tested and rewritten as necessary.

[Double Deuce]

The playtest Campaign will be based on Operation Compass (mainly the actions near Beda Fomm) with the players each commanding a British Infantry Company as part of "Combeforce" of 7th Armoured Division. One of the players (1st Company Commander) will act also as Battalion Commander and will have some extra forces to allocate out. :cool:

It will be very limited so we can test the format, and processes.

You can read more on Operation Compass here;
http://www.btinternet.com/~ian.a.paterson/battles1941.htm#Beda (http://www.btinternet.com/%7Eian.a.paterson/battles1941.htm#Beda)
Beda Fomm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beda_Fomm)
Operation Compass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Compass)I don't anticipate any work for the players until after the new year but if you are interested please feel free to ask questions.

[mr_clark]

Hmm allright.
I would volunteer for a playtest.

[Double Deuce]

If this all works out like I think it should (and hope it will) I plan to do a larger, more popular theme such as the East Front or West Front.

If anyone has any preferences please speak up. I could always put up another poll! :laugh:

[jadpanther]

I vote for the East Front........lol........now there's a big surprise.

Jad

[Double Deuce]

Here is the playtest map. Febuary, 1941, near Beda Fomm. British come from the east, Italians defending. All hexes are 2.5x2.5 km, so each is a 50x50 hex WinSP map. They will not be created in a way they each match up to each other. They will be stand alone maps, the hexes are for general terrain features only. On the OC's map (that the players will not see) each hex will be assigned an ETL (Enemy Threat Level) that will determine the chance for the players to encounter enemy forces as they enter a hex. WinSP units will have their Speed converted to a MP factor. Infantry on foot will be allocated 3 MP per turn. Movement between hexes is 1 MP for open terrain and +1 for moving to a higher elevation and +1 for entering a non-open terrain hex (i.e. if you move uphill into a wooded hex it will cost 3 MP or 1 for the move to a new hex, +1 for the elevation change and +1 for the non-open terrain in the hex). Roads cost .5 MP regardless of terrain in hex as long as you are following the road from hex to hex. Turns are simulated 4 hour time periods.

IMAGE MOVED TO POST #33

[Double Deuce]

As I develop this I will add more to the draft map image along with some additional explanation on each feature/option.

[mr_clark]

The map looks interesting so far. :D

[Vesku]

I can be your enemy planner if you need one.

[Double Deuce]

I can be your enemy planner if you need one.Thanks Vesku.

What I would like to have a is planner or "enemy commander" for this so it takes me out of some of the decision process somewhat. I will be doing all the scenario/tactical battle design but I need someone to create (and maybe run) an enemy operational plan. What I would need you to do for this is to "plan" the defense. This means basically placing some ETL Markers on the campaign map. The ETL markers are what determines the chance enemy forces are encountered as the player's units enter a hex. There will be some other things that wil affect this too but more so in determing the actual number f units encountered. I am also working on a chart for the ETL's to be moved on the operational map to simulate enemy offensive operations.

The chart system I am working on will determine all the enemy forces as well as the friendly reinforcements for each scenario so that part will not involve human decisions too much.

My goal is for players to experience a themed, multiplayer, continuous user campaign but with a umpired battle creation component. They will keep the same core force for the campaign and we will track their unit stats to some degree (i.e. leader name, kills, and some other things).

[Double Deuce]

The Italian unit generation chart is pretty much done (for the time period this will cover). I still have the generic ENEMY activity chart and the UK unit generation chart to go. The basic rules are in hand written form (very basic) I just need to put them into a formatted document and clean them up so testing can begin.

[mr_clark]

wow, you surely move fast.

Did I mention I am available as tester?

[Vesku]

Thanks Vesku.

What I would like to have a is planner or "enemy commander" for this so it takes me out of some of the decision process somewhat. I will be doing all the scenario/tactical battle design but I need someone to create (and maybe run) an enemy operational plan. What I would need you to do for this is to "plan" the defense. This means basically placing some ETL Markers on the campaign map. The ETL markers are what determines the chance enemy forces are encountered as the player's units enter a hex. There will be some other things that wil affect this too but more so in determing the actual number f units encountered. I am also working on a chart for the ETL's to be moved on the operational map to simulate enemy offensive operations.

The chart system I am working on will determine all the enemy forces as well as the friendly reinforcements for each scenario so that part will not involve human decisions too much.

My goal is for players to experience a themed, multiplayer, continuous user campaign but with a umpired battle creation component. They will keep the same core force for the campaign and we will track their unit stats to some degree (i.e. leader name, kills, and some other things).


Ok, just send me the map, situation and forces available and I can write down some sort of orders for them ... unless that is too much involvement from my part :)

[Double Deuce]

wow, you surely move fast.

Did I mention I am available as tester?I'm hoping to have at least 3 players to test this so I'll try to get some more screenshots up and more information posted to try and ramp up interest. We don't really need a BN Commander for the playtest as long as the players plan as a group and move their units individually.

Another thing is units will only be eliminated after a scenario IF they are wiped out. This means that units who survive will be brought back up to full strength (squads that is) if the unit is not eliminated during the fighting. This will simulate reorganization, replacements and return to service of those considered to have minor wounds, etc.

[Double Deuce]

Player base unit commands will most likely be British Mech Infantry Company's. This will include the following;

Mech Inf Co
1x British HQ (with the commander renamed to the players XG username).
1x Austin 30cwt

HQ Platoon
1x Rifle Section (#408)
1x Lloyd Carrier (#51)

1st Platoon
1x Rifle Section (#408)
3x Rifle Section (#69)
4x Lloyd Carrier (#51)

2nd Platoon
1x Rifle Section (#408)
3x Rifle Section (#69)
4x Lloyd Carrier (#51)

3rd Platoon
1x Rifle Section (#408)
3x Rifle Section (#69)
4x Lloyd Carrier (#51)

This will give the player's unit 7MP on the Operational Map. As long as they have enough vehicles to carry everyone this rate should not drop.

[Cameronius]

DD, I can do some of the map work if you like. I also have the CD version extended map editor. Send me a small project for starters.

[Double Deuce]

I vote for the East Front........lol........now there's a big surprise.Since it might take some time to build the charts, create the operational map and basically get stuff together for that, what time frame, area or battle floats your boat . . . Kursk?

Ideally, I'd like to have the players take command of Soviet units and a battle that includes some of the Axis minors.

[Double Deuce]

DD, I can do some of the map work if you like. I also have the CD version extended map editor. Send me a small project for starters.What I will probably do is settle on a base map ID# and then set variables in the Editor to generate maps based on the actual Map Hex terrain (woods, scrub, hills, etc). That way the editor will do most of the work and then' they'll just get tweaked for the actual scenario file. That map will then become the official for that particular hex for the duration of the campaign.

Much easier then creating 100+ 50x50 hex maps in advance. :surprise:

[mr_clark]

Since it might take some time to build the charts, create the operational map and basically get stuff together for that, what time frame, area or battle floats your boat . . . Kursk?

Ideally, I'd like to have the players take command of Soviet units and a battle that includes some of the Axis minors.
Hmm, I am also not very against eastern front, but why do something everybody does? (kursk ;))
There were thousands of "smallscale" (only involving divisions not armies) battles that easily reached a scale we could make a campaign of.
And I guess we're not going to be too nittygritty with historical accuracy...

[Double Deuce]

Hmm, I am also not very against eastern front, but why do something everybody does? (kursk ;))
There were thousands of "smallscale" (only involving divisions not armies) battles that easily reached a scale we could make a campaign of.I too would like to do something that hasn't been well covered, its just making sure it is an interesting enough topic to get people to sign up. ;) It doesn't even have to be eastern front, could be Pacific, Med or West Front, any timeframe. I'm open to suggestions so feel free to post away.
And I guess we're not going to be too nittygritty with historical accuracy...Only in that I would like to represent a portion of the actual units that took part in the fighting.

[Vesku]

Battle of Raate, Finnish 9th Division surrounded and destroyed 44th Russian division right after decimating 163rd Division at Suomussalmi. Tough winter fighting along a single road running through heavy forest.

[Double Deuce]

Battle of Raate, Finnish 9th Division surrounded and destroyed 44th Russian division right after decimating 163rd Division at Suomussalmi. Tough winter fighting along a single road running through heavy forest.Now there's an idea. I have also thought about trying something in the area of Rumania/Hungary 44-45.

[Vesku]

At least it is very different from West and East front battles.

[jadpanther]

LOL.........if it's on the Eastern front you know I'm going to sign up for it. Kursk is cool....but so are hundreds of other places!! If this turns out the wway I think it will it is going to be a very interesting campaign where ever it is(except the pacific.......lol).

Jad

[Double Deuce]

I have decided to forgo using COCAT/MOCAT or a similar tool for this 1st go round. I know those tools work and will do what I need them to. I will need to redo the graphic/icons and stuff so no need to hold up testing of the "system" up for that.

What I will most likely do is have the players use a paint program to plot their moves each turn and for me to provide intel back to them. I will probably upload a current situation map image file to photobucket and link it here, keeping it updated as turns complete. This way it is public, visitors can see it, follow along and comment. Since there are no real teams there will be no need to keep secure forums or hidden areas to discuss tactics, moves, etc. I would ask that players post an AAR of their fights for the rest of us to follow along. :)

All enemy (OPFOR) actions at the operational level will use a menu driven system without me making decisions based on knowledge I may have of the player''s intent or force structure. Same goes for enemy force generation for the battle files. Tactical combat will be handled by the WinSPWW2 game engine (i.e. you are playing vs the AI). Since the AI is weak I may modify some settings for the battles to offset this a little. I will also be setting them up like a scenario so there will be more of a challenge. ;)

[Double Deuce]

OK, here is the updated map with some prominent terrain features and the British units who will be entering from the East map edge. I will need 4 commanders, 1 for each of these companies. :smoke:

Here is the DRAFT starting OOB for each unit --> British Mech Infantry Company (http://www.xtreme-gamer.com/forums/803791-post22.html)

The objectives will be the seizure of both Sidi Sueicher and Sidi Sultan and the road in between. This will cut off Italian retreat South from Benghazi during Operation Compass. EDIT: Italian forces are already in the area with more forces coming in from North/NorthWest and heading South.

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n136/d22_doubledeuce/CC_VS_AI/CopyofWinSP_CC.jpg

[Double Deuce]

I can be your enemy planner if you need one.After careful thought I would rather you, jadpanther and Cameronius join Mr_Clark as players if you can all squeeze in some free time. I could really use all of your input on helping me work out any bugs or issues that could affect the final rules.

There will not be a senior commander. Each of you are part of an advance force and you can come to agreement on a general plan and move your units individually.

The rules are not done so I will walk every one through and finalize them as we go. The biggest thing you will need to know is the Movement Point stuff. Everything else is handled by the menus I have created for generating OPFOR and reinforcements for you guys.

If anyone would like to jump in please post in this thread. I'll then go about assigning units and giving a more detailed briefing to those involved.

[Cameronius]

DD,
Sounds good, I am still in.

Cam

[Vesku]

After careful thought I would rather you, jadpanther and Cameronius join Mr_Clark as players if you can all squeeze in some free time. I could really use all of your input on helping me work out any bugs or issues that could affect the final rules.

There will not be a senior commander. Each of you are part of an advance force and you can come to agreement on a general plan and move your units individually.

The rules are not done so I will walk every one through and finalize them as we go. The biggest thing you will need to know is the Movement Point stuff. Everything else is handled by the menus I have created for generating OPFOR and reinforcements for you guys.

If anyone would like to jump in please post in this thread. I'll then go about assigning units and giving a more detailed briefing to those involved.


I'm afraid that I don't have enough time to do that properly so I must decline the offer.

[Double Deuce]

The 4 player units will be A, B, C and D Mech Infantry Companies of 2nd Battalion, 2nd Rifle Brigade, 7th Armoured Division.

While most of the British armor has raced ahead to cut off the Italian 10th Army retreating south along the Coastal Road the infantry units of 2nd Rifle Brigade are to seize key blocking positions between Msus and the Coastal Road. To prevent the Italians from trying to flank the main forces along the Coastal Road 2nd Battalion will be responsible for the preventing their escape through the area between Antelat and Sidi Saleh. 4th RHA and 11th Hussars are supporting 2nd Rifle Brigade so some of their forces may be available to 2nd Battalion. --> MAP (http://www.btinternet.com/%7Eian.a.paterson/Maps/bedafomm_battle_map.jpg)

[mr_clark]

OK I am in.

[Double Deuce]

OK I am in.Sounds good. I need for you, jadpanther and Cameronius to go ahead and select 1 of the 4 companies as your command. All are identical, only the start locations are different. ;)

Once the units are accounted for, I'll start another thread and post some instructions on how to go about movement and a few other things. Then we're off. Since this is a test we will walk through this and keep everything in public forums for anyone who wants to can follow along.

[jadpanther]

I'll Take the 3rd Company.

I will do my best with the AAR

[Double Deuce]

I'll Take the 3rd Company.

I will do my best with the AARThe AAR's won't need to be too detailed. For this testing I really want the input to be more of your thoughts and comments on whether the sequence of play and format makes sense and of course ways to make this better. Think of it more like feedback on the system rather than an actual AAR on the fighting. During the game when you have questions post them so I can comment and others can follow the development. That way once we go with a bigger campaign others will have a better idea of what is involved and maybe more will join in. Once it starts off I will have a better idea of how much work will be involved especially since each battle will essentially be a complete scenario where I will need to "program" the AI side via waypoints and such. That is the reason for players only commanding company level units.

On the upside, there will be a large number of scenario's to add to the downloads section once we are done. :laugh:

[Double Deuce]

Here is an image that shows how to submit movement orders on the strategic map. Players will submit movement orders by the use of hex direction for each move and the MP cost for entering each hex.

For example: If the player wanted to move A Co from it's current location along the green path to the end position (with the 1) they would submit the following movement orders. These orders would show the along with the hex path to follow and the MP cost for each hex in parentheses such as: A Co - 2(1), 2(1), 3(1), 2(1), 1(1+1). So, to move those 5 hexes would cost 6MP (Movement Points).

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n136/d22_doubledeuce/CC_VS_AI/move_path.jpg

[Double Deuce]

Current Commander Roster;

A Co/2nd Bn/2 Bde, 7th Arm Div:
B Co/2nd Bn/2 Bde, 7th Arm Div:
C Co/2nd Bn/2 Bde, 7th Arm Div: jadpanther
D Co/2nd Bn/2 Bde, 7th Arm Div: Cameronius

I will edit this as players volunteer and post their unit command selections.

NOTE: mr_clark, jadpanther and Cameronius have priority as they volunteered earlier so I will need at least 1 more commander.

Feel free to speak up if you want in on this new Combat Campaign playtest. :smoke:

[Cameronius]

I'll take D Coy. Delta Dogs, hooah!:ar15:

[Double Deuce]

I'll take D Coy. Delta Dogs, hooah!:ar15:Done. Guess you and Jad will be clearing the south of Italian 10th Army forces or at least attempting to. :devious:

[Double Deuce]

Ok, here is the current Commander Roster;

A Co/2nd Bn/2 Bde, 7th Arm Div:
B Co/2nd Bn/2 Bde, 7th Arm Div:
C Co/2nd Bn/2 Bde, 7th Arm Div: jadpanther
D Co/2nd Bn/2 Bde, 7th Arm Div: Cameronius

I still need at least 1 more player.

NOTE: mr_clark has priority as he volunteered earlier so I will need at least 1 more commander.

Also, for those who are waiting for an East Front or other "large" Combat Campaign using this format to step up, please note those who playtest get 1st choice on the units for that version. That could be German units on the East or West Front depending on the scenario/theme I go with. :cool:

[Vesku]

It seems that you have very few volunteers so I'll make myself available. I can't promise a swift rate of play though.

[mr_clark]

I'll go for first coy.

Sorry but my Girlfriend stayed overthe past two nights and I couldn't manage to get online.

[Double Deuce]

It seems that you have very few volunteers so I'll make myself available. I can't promise a swift rate of play though.You'll be playing against the AI so you won't have to wait for your opponent in this one. :laugh:

I want to give this run through before announcing over at Shrapnel so I'm trying to keep it limited to here for now. With the Tourney and other things going on, not counting the holidays everyone has let me know they are pretty much busy for now.

[Double Deuce]

I'll go for first coy.

Sorry but my Girlfriend stayed overthe past two nights and I couldn't manage to get online.What! Where's your priorities man. ;)

1st Company is yours, Vesku will have 2nd Company.

[Double Deuce]

Current Commander Roster;

A Co/2nd Bn/2 Bde/7th Arm Div: mr_clark
B Co/2nd Bn/2 Bde/7th Arm Div: Vesku
C Co/2nd Bn/2 Bde/7th Arm Div: jadpanther
D Co/2nd Bn/2 Bde/7th Arm Div: Cameronius

Each of these commanders will be getting their own OOB/AAR thread so that all information for their unit will be in one place.

[Artur]

DD could you attach the scenarios to the AAR threads? This way anyone could give it a try how he would fare in that situation.

Artur.

[Double Deuce]

DD could you attach the scenarios to the AAR threads? This way anyone could give it a try how he would fare in that situation.
That is my plan.

Once the battles are done (or actually while the players are completing them) I will try to write up a more detailed scenario brief and tweak the AI waypoints to make it as challenging as possible.

[Double Deuce]

Let me know if you all think we need to move the threads for this campaign to its own subforum like we have done for the Island Civil War and NATO vs WP campaigns?

It might make things easier to follow without cluttering up the other areas.

[Cameronius]

Jadpanther,
As we are operating so close together we should co-ordinate our actions. My plan is this. I will take Delta Coy up to the eastern hex of Sidi Sultan dismount and begin clearing the town from east to west, while you take Charlie Coy around to the north of the town and occupy the orchard hex acting as overwatch on the road to the west, cut-off group for enemy trying to withdraw from town and reserve group ready to advance into town from the north if Delta Coy runs into trouble.

Alpha and Bravo Coy can operate together to take the northern objective in whatever manner they choose.

Sound good?

Any one have any comments?

Cam

[mr_clark]

I think youR'e right. We should first concentrate on taking the village objectives and then let one company each take the main advance respectibly up/down the road. During that time the other companys should partly dig in in the objectives and provide flanking cover for the others.
While advancing I would use Alpha company to act mainly as flank guard, then regroup before crossing the northern road and advance north of the Orchards towards Sidi Sueicher, then we'll decide who will lead the advance into the urban areas.

[Double Deuce]

Something to consider (and I haven't added it to the handbook yet) is how casualties will be treated. It will be similar to the regular Combat Campaigns. There will be NO replacements!

Any units not fully elminated in a battle will be fully reconstituted (at least this time around for administration simplicity purposes :cool: ). Consider it to be a reorganization of the light/walking wounded being regrouped to fill other squads, etc.

This will make it important for players to rotate out of firefights any units taking casualties or risk them being eliminated (combat ineffective). It will also be just as important to rotate commanders from leading the advance, say having A Co stop and hold in place as B Co passes through their position and takes up the advance. This should also help keep more players involved over a shorter period of time as no one unit can afford to be under fire continuously.

NOTE: Future campaigns will probably have actual casualties tracked for each squad. Replacements for those campaigns will then come in as # of men, not units. Commanders will then allocate/assign them out to their units as needed.

[Vesku]

Let me know if you all think we need to move the threads for this campaign to its own subforum like we have done for the Island Civil War and NATO vs WP campaigns?

It might make things easier to follow without cluttering up the other areas.

I was going to suggest that so yes, I'd like this to be in its own subforum.

[Double Deuce]

I was going to suggest that so yes, I'd like this to be in its own subforum.I'm working on getting this set up and organized.

Once that is done, I'll open you're individual command threads so you can prepare to post your move orders, ask questions specific to your units, etc.

I will also start putting together some polls to determine what the theme/theater should be for a full campaign like this should there be enough interest to take this format a step further after the "Operation Compass" playtest.

[jadpanther]

Cammerious,

Sounds like a plan to me. I will work my way around the north side of the town into the Orchard.

Jadpanther

[Double Deuce]

mr_clark, Vesku, jadpanther and Cameronius

If you 4 don't have any questions I am going to go ahead and open up the Commander AAR/Order threads and you can post your move orders as soon as you are ready.

The sooner the better as I have the basic charts and stuff set up and ready to go. They are mostly on paper and not electronic format but they are ready for use. :cool:

Once the new subforum is set up I'll consolidate all the related threads for easier tracking.

[mr_clark]

Then it would be nice if Vesku showed up, so we could discuss our advance plans for the first round...

I have made my basic planning ideas clear a few posts above...

[jadpanther]

I will be ready to go.

Jad

[Vesku]

Then it would be nice if Vesku showed up, so we could discuss our advance plans for the first round...

I have made my basic planning ideas clear a few posts above...

Ready to go. B Company will take the town while A Co provides flanking cover.

[Double Deuce]

Then it would be nice if Vesku showed up, so we could discuss our advance plans for the first round...Oh he's here, he's just lurking.

I see him logged on whenever I check in. He must be logged on about 23 hours a day. That or he never logs out and leaves his PC on all the time. It is winter time in Finland so he may be using it as an alternate heating source. :laugh:

[mr_clark]

Hmm, good point. Or maybe winter is as war there as here atm...
10°C is not exactly what I expect mid january ... ;)

Allright, tomorrow I'll present you with my movement plan.

[Double Deuce]

Allright, tomorrow I'll present you with my movement plan.Post away. I am sure the others will follow your lead. As soon as the dedicated subforum for the campaign is set up I'll start moving the appropriate threads into it.

I'll be sure to leave redirects for a short time so we don't all get lost along the way looking for it's new location. :D

[Vesku]

Oh he's here, he's just lurking.

I see him logged on whenever I check in. He must be logged on about 23 hours a day. That or he never logs out and leaves his PC on all the time. It is winter time in Finland so he may be using it as an alternate heating source. :laugh:

I always have one tap open for this on my Firefox which means only about 16 hours aday logged in, not 23 :)

[mr_clark]

Here is my draft OP Order (I post it here so everybody sees it and can discuss it)

MOVEMENT: A-coy: 5(1), 6(2), 5(1), 6(1), 6(1), 5(1) (As you can see I try to make good speed towards the road on the northern edge of the map, avoiding rough terrain for now. I then plan to reach the road hex above the crossroads next round and get into a good position there to cover the advance of B, which might actually advance into the town, or at least tackle the crossroads as well by that time)

General Orders:
Alpha Company is to provide Flank security for Bravo Company. The Company will advance in a "flated Wedge" Formation. A/2 and A/3 will take the right flank, operating no more then 500 meters apart. A/1 will operate no more then 300 meters to the direct south of A/2 giving the Wedge a blunt edge.
Second and Third Platoon will use Wedge formation themselves, three vehicles leaning North and one leaning south. The spaceing of the vehicles should not go further then 100 Meters.
First Platoon will Operate in a south leaning echolon, thereby providing cover to the southern flank Vehicles will not be further then 100 Meters apart. The HQ Platoon will advance in the Gap between A/2 left element and A/1, positioning itself to be screened by both units in case of meeting engagement.
The Company HQ will be operating 100 Meters behind the second from north Vehicle of Platoon One, Providing additional Oversight to the front and both Flanks.
One and Two Platoons are Primarily responsible for Flank Guard, while 3 will provide guard for the Northern Flank and oversight to the other companies.
Every 5 Kilometers the Company will stop to regroup, and while doing that send out scout parties on foot to look for telltales of enemy units in an area of 500 Meters around the vehicles, giving imideate alert to superiors. All Transports will kill their engines after regroup and the unit will take at least 10 minutes to listen for acustic giveaway of the enemy as well. After that Periode has passed the engines will be reengaged and the scouts will only then return to their vehicles which will continue moving when everybody is accounted for.
In the course of Advance the Unit will avoid enemy armored units and will attack only forces of a maximum strenght of two Platoons, while larger enemy formations will be reported to the rest of the Batallion, and reargding of enemy action and equipment, A company will either take position for an Ambush or retreat.

[Cameronius]

OK, here's mine,
5(1),6(1),5(1)

Delta Coy will move mounted in their carriers to the western edge of Sidi Sultan in 2 up formation, platoons in extended line. 500yds before entering the built up area the leadplatoons will dismount and advance into Sidi Sultan clearing all enemy from the town.

[Vesku]

Loyd carrier has capacity of 106 and no Rifle section I can find is that small, do we have six men sections or are the excess men walking? That lowers our movement rate quite a bit.

[Double Deuce]

The Lloyd Carrier (#51) has a carrying capacity of 12 and the Rifle Sections contain 10 men. I just loaded them up in my base scenario files to make sure. You aren't using one of the gun mount, mortar or MG Lloyds are you?

[Vesku]

After restudying the big picture I have a suggestion. As Italians are pushing troops from north we should use A and B companies to block N and NW roads while C and D clear the south and the road between towns. At least one company should advance to Sidi Sueicher to act as a reserve if either A or B run into trouble. It might be worth a risk to leave only a platoon to Sidi Sultan and send both C and D north.

DD, is that a swamp south of the well? How many buildings Sidi Sueicher has and what type? Forest west of the well? Any buildings at the well? Or do we have to rely on a 200 year old treasure map drawn by a pirate?

[Vesku]

The Lloyd Carrier (#51) has a carrying capacity of 12 and the Rifle Sections contain 10 men. I just loaded them up in my base scenario files to make sure. You aren't using one of the gun mount, mortar or MG Lloyds are you?

Where can you see the #? We are using H2H, aren't we? I can find one Loyd carrier and it has a BMG and capacity of 106.

[Vesku]

And now that I read the thread from the start I can't find anywhere what version we should be using.

[Vesku]

WinSPWWII seems to fit your description of Lloyd.

[Double Deuce]

Where can you see the #? We are using H2H, aren't we? No, we are using WinSPWW2. You can set the config settings to show the unit ID# in the in the Misc screen at start.

[Double Deuce]

And now that I read the thread from the start I can't find anywhere what version we should be using.I thought I posted that somewhere but couldn't find it either so I changed the name of the thread. :cry:

[Vesku]

No, we are using WinSPWW2. You can set the config settings to show the unit ID# in the in the Misc screen at start.

Editor opened, can't find config, preferences don't show anything that could switch ID#s on.

[Vesku]

Editor opened, can't find config, preferences don't show anything that could switch ID#s on.

Found the misc, I open WW2 without the start screen so I missed that but now I can't find the correct rifle sections ... boy, I really suck at this :cry:

[Vesku]

Found the misc, I open WW2 without the start screen so I missed that but now I can't find the correct rifle sections ... boy, I really suck at this :cry:

Wrong date, sorry about that.

[Double Deuce]

Found the misc, I open WW2 without the start screen so I missed that but now I can't find the correct rifle sections ... boy, I really suck at this :cry:Set the date to Feb 41 and then look for the British Mech Inf Co. That will be the base unit. ID#2 , 6th unit down in the "Infantry" screen.

[Vesku]

5(1) 5(1) 5(1) 6(1) 5(1) 5(1) 6(1)

First platoon leads the column keeping 100m gaps between vehicles except 2nd squad which is moving 300m ahead of the column. Second platoon follows the first 200m behind keeping 50m gaps. HQs are with second. Third platoon is 200m behind second and has 50m gaps. If contact is established second and third platoon will move abreast 200m behind first and dismount. First will dismount and
engage.

[mr_clark]

After restudying the big picture I have a suggestion. As Italians are pushing troops from north we should use A and B companies to block N and NW roads while C and D clear the south and the road between towns. At least one company should advance to Sidi Sueicher to act as a reserve if either A or B run into trouble. It might be worth a risk to leave only a platoon to Sidi Sultan and send both C and D north.

DD, is that a swamp south of the well? How many buildings Sidi Sueicher has and what type? Forest west of the well? Any buildings at the well? Or do we have to rely on a 200 year old treasure map drawn by a pirate?

Well similar to what I though.
I thought that as we lack Armor/real AT itS' better to take Sidi Suicher for a defence of the road in the city there (buildings make for better ambush points against vehicles...)

I'd ba glad to take the job of a roadblock with A coy...

[Double Deuce]

Sorry I didn't get to this earlier. :upset:

DD, is that a swamp south of the well? Yes, it is, the area is near the well and so the ground is considered swampy (if you can have that in a desert). :shock:

How many buildings Sidi Sueicher has and what type? There will be 1-3 large buildings (at least 1 to represent a mosque) and many smaller buildings for the local inhabitants.

Forest west of the well? Any buildings at the well? Yes, it is wooded to some degree. Basically there will be a scattering/light number of trees. There will be 1 large building and several small outbuildings.

Or do we have to rely on a 200 year old treasure map drawn by a pirate? I will try to generate the maps for the built up areas so you have some more information to plan from. ;)

All building will be wood, except the large ones.

[Double Deuce]

Well similar to what I though.
I thought that as we lack Armor/real AT itS' There is light British armor in the area so don't be surprised if some wander into your area during the fighting. Of course, they will fall under your command for the length of that battle, as will any other roaming "reinforcements" to include artillery and air. ;)

[Cameronius]

Vesku and Mr_Clark,

If you 2 want to move into positions and wait for us to clear the south, we will come to assist you as soon as we are done.
I am opposed to the idea of leaving 1 Coy or less on it's own during the first turn. Especially for offensive operations.
Once we have a better idea of the enemy dispositions a 1 Coy action in the south might be possible, freeing the other coy to head north.

Cam

[Cameronius]

DD, Can you post the map files so we can use them?

[Double Deuce]

DD, Can you post the map files so we can use them?You'll be playing against the AI. How much more "advantage" do you need? :laugh:

I may post the key terrain maps but not the general desert ones. You'll have to go into them blind till you get the scen file.

[Double Deuce]

Also, I have already generated the contact information to design the scenario's so we are ahead of the curve there. We just need jad to post his move and all moves to be finalized (posted in your individual threads).

3 of the 4 companies WILL be engaged in turn 1. :smoke:

[mr_clark]

Allright as we all seem to agree on our manouvre plans I will wait until tomorrow and then make my movement official.

Good Hunting Desert Rats!

[Vesku]

Vesku and Mr_Clark,

If you 2 want to move into positions and wait for us to clear the south, we will come to assist you as soon as we are done.
I am opposed to the idea of leaving 1 Coy or less on it's own during the first turn. Especially for offensive operations.
Once we have a better idea of the enemy dispositions a 1 Coy action in the south might be possible, freeing the other coy to head north.

Cam
I didn't say that you should clear Sidi Sultan with one Coy, I suggested that you move a Coy to Sidi Sueicher to be as reserve but that assumes that Sidi Sueicher is cleared of enemy before that. I shouldn't have spared the words there :). Once the first stage (clearing the towns) is over we should concentrate our forces to north which is an obvious move because we are expecting more enemy to enter the area from there.

[jadpanther]

5(1) 6(1) 6(1) 5(1)

Charlie Coy:
First platoon leads the column keeping 100m gaps between vehicles except 2nd squad which is moving 300m ahead of the column. Second platoon follows the first 200m behind keeping 50m gaps. HQs are with second. Third platoon is 200m behind second and has 50m gaps. If contact is established second and third platoon will move abreast 200m behind first and dismount. First will dismount and
engage.

Using this movement Charlie Coy will close to within 500m of Sidi Sultan and dismount. Then using leapforg tactics they will enter and clear the town from the north cordinating with Delta coy.

Sorry for the delay in orders the arieal on the radio was broken and we were out of communications.

[Double Deuce]

Just another FYI.

I have all 3 maps ready for the 3 engagements and all enemy forces determined. Now, I just need you guys to post your final orders in your individual threads so I can finish the scenario files. I will also post your mission and any additional information pertaining your current situation.

Also, make sure you double check your hex-type movement costs. ;)

[Cameronius]

DD,
I didn't want the maps for advantage, I wanted them to use in a PBEM I am starting. Your maps look really good and I didn't want to take the time to draw my own. I doesn't matter now however, my opponent beat me to the punch.

Cam

[Double Deuce]

I didn't want the maps for advantage, I wanted them to use in a PBEM I am starting.I was just giving you a hard time. :laugh:

As the scenarios are completed I will probably post them for anyone to DL. Maps will be available as separate DL as well.

At some point, since you are all using the same base OOB I would like to take all these scenarios once the operation is completed and use it create a complete User Campaign.

[Double Deuce]

Check the "Operation CombeForce" Current Situation Campaign Map for recent information.

Enemy forces have been determined, maps created and now I must work on the actual scenario files. So if my kids will leave me alone today I think I can make some decent headway. :devious:

[Vesku]

I was the only one who wanted to move 7 hexes and now my flank is caught before they even started to move, I feel lonely :)

[Double Deuce]

1 battle designed, 2 to go. :smoke:

What I will probably do is attach the appropriate battle file to each player's thread for them to DL, post any AAR's, intel, etc and then attach their end game file for me to update the master OOB and campaign map.

[mr_clark]

I was the only one who wanted to move 7 hexes and now my flank is caught before they even started to move, I feel lonely :)
I can imagine. Hope it plays out well enough and I am not standing against an armored batallion or something ;)

[Double Deuce]

OK, all 3 scenario battle files are done, I just need to write a up brief mission/situation brief and post in your threads. I will also try to attach the scen file there as well.

When you start the scenario, which you will do just like you would any other scenario vs the AI and please be sure that the British player is Human ad the Italian player is Computer.

I will also be adding another thread that will lay out the rules/standards of conduct such as no replaying turns, no peeking into the scenario file to see what and where the enemy is, etc.

Some battles may be VERY easy while some are not. The key is that you need to take and hold till the end of turn 20 at least 11 of the 21 victory objective hexes OR you lose control of the hex and are forced to withdraw to the hex you formerly occupied or directly away from the direction of the enemy attack.

Another important thing is NOT to lose men, they cannot be replaced.

[Double Deuce]

I can imagine. Hope it plays out well enough and I am not standing against an armored batallion or something ;)Well the Germans haven't arrived yet so it could only be an Italian armored battalion, what's the worry. :halo:

[mr_clark]

Hmm, right nothing a Boys ATR could punch a hole in :P

[jadpanther]

Hmmmm...DD.....I have a feeling you forgot the Section of Matilda's and towed 2lber's that are supposed to be attached to my company........lol. Especially if Jerry is about.

Jad

[Double Deuce]

Hmmmm...DD.....I have a feeling you forgot the Section of Matilda's and towed 2lber's that are supposed to be attached to my company........lol. Your lucky, you had much better rolls than Cam did when I generated his enemy OOB. :devious:

[mr_clark]

You rolled it out?

*prepares for quite some battle*

[Double Deuce]

Another thing I'm planning to incorporate into this format is creating each player's OOB in a separate scenario file at the start of the campaign and then provide a copy of it to each commander. Once they have that copy I will allow them to re-organize their units and name their leaders. Once completed they will send it back to me.

This will then become the Master OOB for their "command" that all future scenario's are created from. After each round if they are involved a battle I will transfer the casualties from the end game file to this Master OOB file. Next round battles will then be built off the revised Master copy.

Once I implement this system I will track individual casualties for each squad for each unit from round to round. I will also incorporate a replacement system based on individual soldiers, vehicles and equipment.

[Vesku]

Sounds great from player's point of view but doesn't it involve a lot of paper work on your part?

[Double Deuce]

Sounds great from player's point of view but doesn't it involve a lot of paper work on your part?Not if I create some spreadsheets to track the data, then it is just a matter of editing the players master unit after each turn. I would only be editing the # of men, vehicles and major equipment but NOT individual equipment in each squad though.

[mr_clark]

Still sounds like a lot of work. At least for me.

[jadpanther]

Sounds like a labor of love...........DD is definitely the most dedicated to the game system that I have seen here. I'm sure glad that he is because the campaigns he puts together are always interesting and fun.

Jad

[mr_clark]

He surely is and they are!

Just playing the 11thMEU campaign that came with the upgrade. Fun so far.

[Double Deuce]

Just playing the 11thMEU campaign that came with the upgrade. Fun so far.Thanks for the kind words.

I'm not usually big on Marine stuff (being an Army Vet myself :laugh: ) but for some reason that theme just kept coming up on my "would be cool to do" list. Same with Mexican Drug War and Dutch Terror. I guess I just like doing the unusual scenario's.

[mr_clark]

I played into the first two levels of the other's but somehow it was too small scale even for me ;) (though I am into comany sized engagements )
But apart form that they're very well made.

When I am done with the marine thing I'll look into the Army one. (though I prefer playing the other side ;) )

[Double Deuce]

(though I prefer playing the other side ;) )I had some plans for one like that but got sidetracked. I only got the first 4-5 scenarios done. I'm sure I still have them somewhere.

[mr_clark]

A pity I am not really into Scenenario design.
I always wanted to do a Nationale Volksarmee 'first line of defense' campaign.
Featuring the Opening battles of a NATO "surprise" attack on the WP as it's found in some WP manuals...

[Double Deuce]

What time frame and player force size were you think of using? The WP one I was doing was using a Polish Regimental Recon Company operating in Denmark.

[mr_clark]

I was thinking along the lines of a reinforced Border Guards company. So a company of mech inf + tankplatoon and maybe some (also soviet) extra units in the battles.
Timeline would have been in the late 70s, maybe very early 80s.
I remember having made a map for the place I live at for one of the later battles with SPMBT 2.something, but it's long gone now.

My planning was to set a campaign of roughly half a dozen defensive battles following the way until the Oder River (so the GDR Polish border) where then the Soviet counter offensive would start, ending the campaign, and maybe leaving room for a new one.
But as I said, "highschool" degrees and the beginnings of university somehow didn't allow me the time to look deeper into scenarion/map design.