Chinese sub secretly stalks US fleet

[Herman Hum]

Chinese sub secretly stalks US fleet
Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/13/uchina113.xml)

By Sally Peck and agencies
Last Updated: 5:23pm GMT 13/11/2006

A Chinese submarine secretly stalked a US aircraft carrier and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has reported.

USS Kitty Hawk
The US aircraft carrier Kitty Hawk held routine joint naval exercises with Japan in waters near Okinawa from November 9

China's Song-class diesel-powered attack submarine shadowed the USS Kitty Hawk undetected and surfaced within five miles of the aircraft carrier on October 26, the newspaper reported, citing unnamed defence officials.

The submarine was discovered after it surfaced by one of the American fleet's aircraft on a routine surveillance flight, the newspaper reported.

The report emerged as Admiral Gary Roughead, commander of the American navy's Pacific fleet, made his first visit to China.

Admiral William J. Fallon, commander of the US forces in the Pacific, has been working with the Chinese on a military exchange programme in recent months.

The two countries have been working on a heightened military partnership in the wake of the North Korean nuclear test. China was widely praised for its role in brokering North Korea's return to the six-party talks.

The Chinese submarine was carrying Russian-made wake-homing torpedoes and anti-ship cruise missiles, according to the officials.

The Pentagon refused to comment on the alleged incident.

[Arno]

whoops :laugh:

It's about time all those high paid operators are given the boot and a qualified 'Pooner is put in charge... If no one else wants to I'd throw my head (or was it hat) in the ring... :ar15:

Thanks for posting Herman!!!!

Cheerio
Arno

[Herman Hum]

Here's a good follow-on article.

Defenses on subs to be reviewed

By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES (http://washingtontimes.com/national/20061114-123345-3750r.htm)
November 14, 2006

U.S. aircraft carrier USS Kitty Hawk U.S. aircraft carrier USS Kitty Hawk (AP)

Navy officials confirmed yesterday that an aircraft carrier battle group failed to detect a Chinese submarine that surfaced within weapons range of the USS Kitty Hawk. Anti-submarine defenses for the carrier battle group will be reviewed as a result, they said.

"It was not detected," said one Navy official of the encounter with a Chinese diesel-powered attack submarine. "And we're concerned about that, obviously."

The Chinese Song-class attack submarine surfaced near the carrier in deep waters off Okinawa on Oct. 26. It was armed with wake-homing torpedos and anti-ship cruise missiles.

The officials said it was unusual for the submarine to be operating in deep ocean waters, but the incident was not like the April 2001 collision of a U.S. EP-3 surveillance aircraft and Chinese F-8 jet that ruptured military ties.

"We were operating in international waters, and they were operating in international waters," the official said. "From that standpoint, nobody was endangering anybody. Nobody felt threatened."

However, other defense officials said the submarine surfacing was a provocative action by the Chinese military, which has placed a high priority on practicing anti-aircraft-carrier operations against U.S. carriers and warships in preparation for a possible future conflict over Taiwan.

The carrier was not engaged in anti-submarine warfare exercises at the time and thus did not have active patrols for submarines, the Navy official said. As a result, submarine defenses for the carrier and its accompanying warships will be reviewed, he said.

The submarine was spotted by carrier-based aircraft conducting routine surveillance.

The submarine encounter also took U.S. intelligence agencies by surprise because of years of analyses that continue to portray a benign China, said a defense official.

"Our China analysts appeared to be stunned that China would shadow a U.S. carrier as far away as Okinawa," the defense official said.

The Japan-based Kitty Hawk and associated warships are the only Asia-based battle group and would be the first to respond to a crisis concerning Taiwan, which China has threatened with force in the past.

The encounter also was unusual because Chinese submarines normally do not operate in deep waters, both officials said.

"From our standpoint, ... it shows that they continue to develop blue-water capabilities," the Navy official said.

Pentagon and military officials initially declined to discuss anything about the submarine incident, claiming details were classified. Some details were then disclosed after The Washington Times reported the encounter in yesterday's editions.

Disclosure of the submarine encounter comes as the U.S. Pacific Fleet commander, Adm. Gary Roughead, is visiting China for meetings with Chinese military officials.

A Pacific Fleet spokesman said Adm. Roughead could not be reached yesterday on whether he planned to raise the submarine encounter during talks with the Chinese.

Adm. Roughead told reporters in Beijing yesterday that he hopes to better understand the intentions behind China's naval buildup during his weeklong visit.

"When asked if the PLA navy is a threat, I've been on the record as saying no," the four-star admiral said, referring to Chinese forces, the People's Liberation Army. "But I really would like to know what the intent is in some of the developments that I see in the PLA navy."

Adm. Roughead is in China as the U.S. and Chinese militaries conduct a joint search-and-rescue operation exercise.

The visit is part of an ambitious program being promoted by the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Adm. William J. Fallon, to develop closer ties with the Chinese military.

The program has been plagued by a lack of reciprocity on the part of China's military, which continues to refuse U.S. military visitors to key military facilities or to observe military exercise. By contrast, the U.S. military has given Chinese military visitors access to sensitive U.S. facilities and military exercises.

Also, China is continuing to block U.S. military officials from visiting a secret underground command center in Beijing known as the Western Hills.

Adm. Roughead is scheduled to meet Chinese navy commander Vice Admiral Wu Shengli and the commander of the South China Sea Fleet. Those talks could shed light on China's aggressive naval buildup.

"Clearly, the growth in the capacity and capability of the navy since I've first been exposed to it in the '90s, the ability to go into the blue water is very, very clear," he said. "I look forward to having discussions about what the vision is and perhaps what some of the operating doctrine might be."

William Tripplett, a former Senate Foreign Relations Committee staff specialist on China, said the failure to track the submarine was alarming.

"China's tracking of the Kitty Hawk, undetected by U.S. Navy anti-submarine warfare assets, is a shocking development," he said.

[Freek]

...and a submariners dream! And then the US admiral goes to ask for intentions...hilarious! Freek

[Briec]

...and a submariners dream!

Many a Chinese medals were handed out that day! lol

Maybe that is why the fast deployment of the Surtass sonar?

[Boats]

A few points:

First, the Asheville, a LA SSN, and the Seawolf were with the CVSG. I suspect that the Song was well known to the USN subs. Second, back-channel reports say that the sub broached, a partial surface, something that happens when the diving officer screws the pooch maintaining the delicate balance of ballast, speed, and plane angle. Last, I somehow think that the proximate cause of the broaching was a very high energy ping in the baffles of the Song.

Then again, I could be wrong. I don't see a damn thing wrong with the USN getting serious about ASW (or USW, as the new Navy calls it). More here, and I submit, the comments section are as interesting as the article:

CDR Salamander: The Stalking of the KITTY HAWK (http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2006/11/stalking-of-kitty-hawk.html)

Byron

[Briec]

A few points:

First, the Asheville, a LA SSN, and the Seawolf were with the CVSG. I suspect that the Song was well known to the USN subs. Second, back-channel reports say that the sub broached, a partial surface, something that happens when the diving officer screws the pooch maintaining the delicate balance of ballast, speed, and plane angle. Last, I somehow think that the proximate cause of the broaching was a very high energy ping in the baffles of the Song.

Then again, I could be wrong. I don't see a damn thing wrong with the USN getting serious about ASW (or USW, as the new Navy calls it). More here, and I submit, the comments section are as interesting as the article:

CDR Salamander: The Stalking of the KITTY HAWK (http://cdrsalamander.blogspot.com/2006/11/stalking-of-kitty-hawk.html)

Byron

Just out of curiosity, where is your source for this, I have attempted to find it and no luck.

Second, I do agree that ASW is definitely always going to be a priority. Submarines are the best Hunter-Killers, but stealth has its own costs in certain scenario's...

[Boats]

Probably the two best Navy milblogs are Commander Salamander (an active duty, Surface Warfare type, who lives in the Wash., DC area), and Neptunus Lex (an active duty Captain, who commanded a Hornet squadron, and might be screening for 0-7). If you take the time to not only read the article, but read the comments, you'll see that many of the folks commenting are current or former military...it's a big family.

And you couldn't have researched it too much:

Navy Times - U.S., Japan conduct year’s biggest joint naval exercise (http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2348713.php)

Bubblehead had this story up
The Stupid Shall Be Punished: USS Kitty Hawk And The Chinese Sub (http://bubbleheads.blogspot.com/2006/11/uss-kitty-hawk-and-chinese-sub.html)

Much ado about nothing, but if it gets the Navy off it's dead stupid ass and start taking ASW seriously, I got no problem with it.

Byron

[Briec]

I pointed my research to newspapers and what not. Thanks for the heads up. Will add that to my bookmarks.

As for getting serious about ASW I think that is what the games are about. And this "incident" can't do anything but help the situation. Yes/No?

[Boats]

I pointed my research to newspapers and what not. Thanks for the heads up. Will add that to my bookmarks.

As for getting serious about ASW I think that is what the games are about. And this "incident" can't do anything but help the situation. Yes/No?

I submit, that "newspapers and what not" are the last place to look:laugh:

Will it help? Only the idiots in the five sided wind tunnel on the Potomac, the idiots in Congress, and the mega-milcorps have that answer...

Byron